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"Navi 31" RDNA3 Sees AMD Double Down on Chiplets: As Many as 7

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Way back in January 2021, we heard a spectacular rumor about "Navi 31," the next-generation big GPU by AMD, being the company's first logic-MCM GPU (a GPU with more than one logic die). The company has a legacy of MCM GPUs, but those have been a single logic die surrounded by memory stacks. The RDNA3 graphics architecture that the "Navi 31" is based on, sees AMD fragment the logic die into smaller chiplets, with the goal of ensuring that only those specific components that benefit from the TSMC N5 node (6 nm), such as the number crunching machinery, are built on the node, while ancillary components, such as memory controllers, display controllers, or even media accelerators, are confined to chiplets built on an older node, such as the TSMC N6 (6 nm). AMD had taken this approach with its EPYC and Ryzen processors, where the chiplets with the CPU cores got the better node, and the other logic components got an older one.

Greymon55 predicts an interesting division of labor on the "Navi 31" MCM. Apparently, the number-crunching machinery is spread across two GCD (Graphics Complex Dies?). These dies pack the Shader Engines with their RDNA3 compute units (CU), Command Processor, Geometry Processor, Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACEs), Rendering Backends, etc. These are things that can benefit from the advanced 5 nm node, enabling AMD to the CUs at higher engine clocks. There's also sound logic behind building a big GPU with two such GCDs instead of a single large GCD, as smaller GPUs can be made with a single such GCD (exactly why we have two 8-core chiplets making up a 16-core Ryzen processors, and the one of these being used to create 8-core and 6-core SKUs). The smaller GCD would result in better yields per wafer, and minimize the need for separate wafer orders for a larger die (such as in the case of the Navi 21).



Besides two GCDs, there are four MCDs (memory controller dies). Greymon55 predicts that these could be built on the 6 nm (TSMC N6) node, a slightly more advanced node than N7 (7 nm). Each MCD controls two 32-bit memory paths, controlling two memory chips, or 64-bit of the memory bus width. Four such MCDs make up 256-bit. For ASICs with just one GCD, there could be three MCDs (192-bit), or even just two (128-bit). The MCD packs the GDDR6 memory controller, as well as its PHY. There could also be exotic fixed-function hardware for features such as memory compression and ECC (latter being available on Pro SKUs).

The third and final kind of die is the I/O Die. On both Socket AM4 and SP3 processors, the IOD serves as town-square, connecting all the CPU chiplets, and crams memory, PCIe, and other platform I/O. On "Navi 31," the IOD could pack all the components that never need overclocking—these include the PCI-Express switch (which connects the GPU to the system), the Display CoreNext (DCN) component that controls the various display outputs; and perhaps even the Video CoreNext (VCN), which packs the media accelerators. At this point it's not known which node the IOD is built on.

The ether connecting all 7 chiplets on the "Navi 31" MCM is Infinity Fabric. IFOP (Infinity Fabric over package), as implemented on EPYC "Milan" or the upcoming "Genoa" processors, has shown that its wiring isn't of high enough density that it needs an interposer, and can make do with the fiberglass substrate. Such will be the case with "Navi 31," too. The MCDs will wire out to the GDDR6 memory devices just the way current GPUs do it, so will the IOD, while all the chiplets talk to each other over IFOP.

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ARF

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The RDNA 3 - Navi 3x launch will be extremely important for AMD. Let's hope we will see it sooner than later this year..
 
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News articles say that the new Radeon RX 7700 XT will have around the same performance level as the current flagship - the Radeon RX 6900 XT 16 GB.
 
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ARF

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no.
but the UK thinks they looks like mini french fries :p

Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
 
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News articles say that the new Radeon RX 7700 XT will have around the same performance level as the current flagship - the Radeon RX 6900 XT 16 GB.

I have read the same stuff, but it will be 8GB.
 
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Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
and they taste SSOOOO GOOD!
Starving Season 12 GIF by The Bachelorette
 
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Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
I wouldn't call them extremely unhealthy, especially if eaten in moderation:
The higher risk of death was noted among those who ate French fries more than twice a week. Eating them once a week or less would likely have a negligible effect on your health.
from https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/in-defense-of-french-fries-2019020615893
 

ARF

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I have read the same stuff, but it will be 8GB.

And with x8 PCIe slot capability, which means that if put on older boards with PCIe 3 it will be greatly bottlenecked and not used as advertised.

I am not holding my breath for it, though, just to hint that better things must come later this year.
 
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Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
lol, life is unhealthy. The world will kill you sooner or later.
 

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Is there any data on how much more latency is incurred doing chiplets rather than a monolithic die? Im sure its not negligible from an engineering and timing perspective.
 

ARF

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lol, life is unhealthy. The world will kill you sooner or later.

There is a difference between dying at the age of 50 because of problems, and to live to 85 and have grandchildren.
 
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And with x8 PCIe slot capability, which means that if put on older boards with PCIe 3 it will be greatly bottlenecked and not used as advertised.

I am not holding my breath for it, though, just to hint that better things must come later this year.

With 8x lanes there's hardly any issues (you're cpu bottlenecked before that anyway). It's sad that because of AMD recycling laptop chips pcie 3.0 is still a thing on a perfectly good current CPU (the 5700G/5600G are fine cpus)
 

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With 8x lanes there's hardly any issues (you're cpu bottlenecked before that anyway). It's sad that because of AMD recycling laptop chips pcie 3.0 is still a thing on a perfectly good current CPU (the 5700G/5600G are fine cpus)
There will be performance degradation on 8x when putting it into boards that dont have pcie 4.0/5.0. CPU will not be the bottleneck there. Pretty sure Wizz tested this in a rx5500xt review.
 
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Here's hoping the economies of chiplets means that the pricing is a bit more reasonable this time around. And that AMD can give more bang for the buck in the entry to mid-range, given that Intel is also going to be starting in that general market competition.
 
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Here's hoping the economies of chiplets means that the pricing is a bit more reasonable this time around. And that AMD can give more bang for the buck in the entry to mid-range, given that Intel is also going to be starting in that general market competition.
I think this is to be the top end SKU, since they are also spinning up more traditional monolithic dies for lower end parts.
But yeah , hopefully this or Intel's eventual Dgpu entry.
 
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Is there any data on how much more latency is incurred doing chiplets rather than a monolithic die? Im sure its not negligible from an engineering and timing perspective.
I would expect that AMD knows enough chiplet designing internally by now in dealing with MCM chiplets for CPU design to figure it out. It shouldn't be worse than CF or their legacy MCM approaches in any case. Latency on today's PCIE card slots is less concerning anyway. I mean think about people were running 3-way SLI with GTX 980's on PCIE 3.0 for example. I see it as hardly a issue of concern at all anymore. That was at a time when GPU and CPU speeds were worse along with memory performance for both. This is far from lucid hydra trying to do mGPU across the chipset north bridge for example as well. Really with TSV they could be separate chiplet's for different portions of the GPU design and essentially seen by the GPU and/or OS as one physical monolithic GPU.
 
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There will be performance degradation on 8x when putting it into boards that dont have pcie 4.0/5.0. CPU will not be the bottleneck there. Pretty sure Wizz tested this in a rx5500xt review.

I'm not saying there's no difference but it's pretty negligible. I couldn't find the test for the 5500xt, but looking at the 6600xt it's within margin of error imo. When I mention CPU I mean it'll be a problem before the 8x bus is

 
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Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
It depends how they are cooked, deep fried yes they re really bad, air fried, they aren't too bad at all. I've never cooked deep fried chips, air fried makes them super crisp and moist inside and we use only a teaspoon of olive oil.
 
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Speaking of which - the french fries are extremely unhealthy - they cause fatty liver and all other types of unpleasant things to the human bodies.
Even better with gravy and cheese curds.........mmmmmmm

I can hear myself getting fatter ;)
 

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My main concern with these chiplet design is heat transfer. If I look at AMD’s Ryzen 3000 and 5000 series CPUs that utilises chiplet designs, these chips tend to run quite hot despite the lower power requirement as compared to Intel’ s monolithic design. While this GCD is expected to be bigger in size than the CPU chiplet, it seems to require more power. The Navi 31 is rumoured to pull 450 to 500W of power. So while the heatsink may increase in size, the contact with the chiplets may not be as ideal to allow good heat transfers. It will be interesting to see how this pans out with RDNA3.

Here's hoping the economies of chiplets means that the pricing is a bit more reasonable this time around. And that AMD can give more bang for the buck in the entry to mid-range, given that Intel is also going to be starting in that general market competition.
Chiplet design should ideally bring cost down as compared to a monolithic one. So given that Nvidia is also using TSMC 5nm now, I think AMD will have an advantage from a cost perspective (Plus the fact that AMD may likely have a preferential pricing due to their partnership with TSMC). But whether it will be reasonable when it lands in the retail space, I am not so optimistic. TSMC 5nm is not cheap to begin with. AMD’s strategy seems to target the second best nodes for their products to avoid paying a substantial premium for cutting edge nodes that the likes of Apple tend to scoop up. But with all the big players all stuck with 5nm/ 4nm at this point in time, I can imagine it will be very costly to try and secure more allocation. Apple by themselves would have scooped up most of the 4nm allocations with their deep pockets.
 
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My main concern with these chiplet design is heat transfer. If I look at AMD’s Ryzen 3000 and 5000 series CPUs that utilises chiplet designs, these chips tend to run quite hot despite the lower power requirement as compared to Intel’ s monolithic design. While this GCD is expected to be bigger in size than the CPU chiplet, it seems to require more power. The Navi 31 is rumoured to pull 450 to 500W of power. So while the heatsink may increase in size, the contact with the chiplets may not be as ideal to allow good heat transfers. It will be interesting to see how this pans out with RDNA3.
I dont worry about heat too much. Got an 5800X and have literally no heat problem with it.
Besides, You dont have to max the clocks that much when you have double of the CUs there for instance. You lower the clocks and voltage and you are good with heat and power. All AMD needs to do is tweak it all together to make sense and balance it properly.
 
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