PSA: Don't Just Arm-wrestle with 16-pin 12VHPWR for Cable-Management, It Will Burn Up

[Dirt Chip]

The 12vhpwr has less voltage pins man, the 8pins cable standard was overbuilt. You could literally power a 350w card with one single connector that splits off to 2x6+2pins.

Yep, that's the whole idea. Less pins, less space.
12vhpwr will not pull more than 600w unless molded, but it sure can.
If you bend the wire near the connector you can result in over pressure that can cues such burn phenomena.
Interesting to know what was the reason in this case.

I am reading on the internet people saying that this is a user error, but I believe it is not. There was never a case in the past where you have to be careful with a power cable, so how is this a user error? People never had to even consider something like this and even if the cables come with a warning on the installation manual, do even people know when the cable is bent more than it should? People are not engineers.

Right.

Is anyone surprised?

Going from 24-Pin (3x 8-Pin) to 12-Pin with 50% smaller terminals delivering the same 450 Watt.

Now in a perfect world that may be fine, but the bending of the pins can't be avoided with the current design.

I agree that it is more a location problem on the GPU (and the size of it causing you to be space-limited) and the use of the adaptor that make space for maneuver even smaller than problem with the 12VHPWR spec.

There is no problem to engineer such pins that can stand the current\voltage. Also, only 3 of the 8pin are for voltage. So it`s 3*3=9 total. Not 24...
FYI, 12VHPWR have 6 voltage pins. see pic.

We need to ask about this incidence circumstance and not only bash the 12VHPWR brain out.

 

[TheDeeGee]

Yep, that's the whole idea. Less pins, less space.
12vhpwr will not pull more than 600w unless molded, but it sure can.
If you bend the wire near the connector you can result in over pressure that can cues such burn phenomena.
Interesting to know what was the reason in this case.


Right.


I agree that it is more a location problem on the GPU (and the size of it causing you to be space-limited) and the use of the adaptor that make space for maneuver even smaller than problem with the 12VHPWR spec.

There is no problem to engineer such pins that can stand the current\voltage. Also, only 3 of the 8pin are for voltage. So it`s 3*3=9 total. Not 24...
FYI, 12VHPWR have 6 voltage pins. see pic.

We need to ask about this incidence circumstance and not only bash the 12VHPWR brain out.

They should have looked into combining a traditional 2x 6-Pin or 2x 8-Pin, and keep the size. That would still be a reduced footprint on the PCB and a more robust connector.

It's clearly the fragile pins being the problem, the cables can handle it just fine.

 

[Vayra86]

Is there a higher standard than 30?

If so, what, and what specs? No point shooting something down without at least giving evidence the other way. Then at least I can change my stance and support yours. But without the evidence, your post sounds like mere opinion.

Not having a go at you, simply asking for something to see that will enable me to change my mind.

Mating Connector: What to Know About Connector Mating Cycles

A mating connector is any method of assembling of two or more component parts with mutually complementing shapes that. Any electrical connector, bolted joint, and jigsaw puzzle is an example of assembling based on mating connection. Mating cycles are important when selecting a connector. Learn...

www.iconnsystems.com

Good for perspective; 30 just isnt a whole lot especially as GPUs get switched, cleaned, resold etc

 

[Gundem]

So now I need a new case as well. Cool.

*hypothetically speaking of course*

 

[the54thvoid]

Mating Connector: What to Know About Connector Mating Cycles

A mating connector is any method of assembling of two or more component parts with mutually complementing shapes that. Any electrical connector, bolted joint, and jigsaw puzzle is an example of assembling based on mating connection. Mating cycles are important when selecting a connector. Learn...

www.iconnsystems.com

Good for perspective; 30 just isnt a whole lot especially as GPUs get switched, cleaned, resold etc

30 still appears fine for normal usage. I've disconnected my graphics card zero times in the past year. A reviewer may need more but then, that's a business use with other considerations.

The construction and bend elements are fair game for criticism but, IMO, the 30 (minimum) rating, which may be much higher IRL, isn't an issue.

 

[sephiroth117]

This goes far above Nvidia and RTX 4090.

This is a standards and a standard that can and will be found in all GPUs at one point, AMD is part of PCI-SIG.
If the 7000 is still on PCI-E (which clearly was the best choice since ATX 3.0 PSU I have yet to found one in store), maybe the 8000 won't

We need to get to the bottom of this, thoroughly and scientifically. Leave no room for doubt, people should be using their card without thinking it will burn their PC!

PCI-SIG already warned about thermal variance in adapters and non-ATX3 back in September I believe

 

[swirl09]

So the cable needs 35mm space before bending.

... If 93% of all cases do not have the space for it, is it legal to include it?

That particular aspect wouldnt really fall into a legal category IMO.

What absolutely should, is that there is no warnings or documentation of this point in/on the packaging. I dont believe "its been talked about online" is going to hold much weight in court.

If you dont want something to be bent, dont make it highly bendable, with zero warnings/instructions. (Ive checked everything that came in the box, there was NOTHING about how it should or shouldnt be bent)

 

[TheDeeGee]

Here is another one.

 

[xtreemchaos]

the way GPU TPD is going in a few years we are going to need Buzz bar to connect the pci power .

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

So the cable needs 35mm space before bending.

... If 93% of all cases do not have the space for it, is it legal to include it?

Exactly, I mentioned this yesterday but people gloss over stuff

This makes a 4090 impractical in more than 93% of cases IMHO.

But buyers be like nah I can jam it in soooo.

IMHO this is going to be a drama.

 

[TheDeeGee]

I also wonder how many people are using only 2 PSU cables to connect the 600 watt adapter.

Cuz you know, some PSUs have daisy chain PCI-E 8-Pin cables... *yikes*

 

[damric]

Blame Raja

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

30 cycles over the course of 5~7 years of usage is not a whole lot, is it... and this is a connector that is not only thinner but also carries higher power.

And molex is certainly not known for its fantastic quality either. It looks and works like bottom barrel junk. Great comparison when we're talking about top end GPU power delivery

As always, cost considerations are clearly in play here and not to greater benefit of end user (safety) or product (longevity).

This! How many times did the molex pins just come right the fuck out of the connector! Molex fucking blows goats and we all hated it. One of the great things about SATA and PCIE was being done with that for GPUs and HDDs.

30 still appears fine for normal usage. I've disconnected my graphics card zero times in the past year. A reviewer may need more but then, that's a business use with other considerations.

The construction and bend elements are fair game for criticism but, IMO, the 30 (minimum) rating, which may be much higher IRL, isn't an issue.

That's max. In the case of molex the first time you removed it you could rip all the pins out stuck in the female socket or they would be non aligned you had to monkey them back into place. It was a giant parade of fail, bad, suck, miserable, wasted time, and much cursing.

 

[Pepamami]

According to who?
Because you have many number of examples that works without a problem and the tiny thing of a long validation process by electrical engineers.
You know, it can be smaller and better. CPU`s does that all the time.

because u put smaller, thicker AWG cables, does not mean that same PINs are suited for this.
Now we have "pls dont bend it, ok" situaltions, coz of PINs overload

 

[the54thvoid]

This! How many times did the molex pins just come right the fuck out of the connector! Molex fucking blows goats and we all hated it. One of the great things about SATA and PCIE was being done with that for GPUs and HDDs.


That's max. In the case of molex the first time you removed it you could rip all the pins out stuck in the female socket or they would be non aligned you had to monkey them back into place. It was a giant parade of fail, bad, suck, miserable, wasted time, and much cursing.

But last Gen's cards, and the ones before, using the mini-molex design had the same rating. I had to Google into the rabbit hole but this pdf sort of covers it.

molex.com/pdm_docs/ps/PS-5556-001-001.pdf

Whether or not that blows is irrelevant. It's the false drama over the 30 cycles.

 

[Chomiq]

I connected my cable once, haven't disconnected it since and it's been almost a year now since I got my 3080 Ti FE. Granted, it's 350W GPU, not a 450W+.

 

[catulitechup]

Blame Raja

.................

 

[Aquinus]

I connected my cable once, haven't disconnected it since and it's been almost a year now since I got my 3080 Ti FE. Granted, it's 350W GPU, not a 450W+.

In the 11-ish years of having my 1kW Seasonic, I've disconnected and reconnected cables less than once a year.

 

[Blueberries]

I know it generates clicks or video views or whatever but the fear mongering has to stop. There is exactly n=1 cases of this happening in the wild and who knows how they treated the cable or what other elements could have caused this. A quick google search of "burned 8 pin connector" will yield numerous results of this happening throughout history, it's not unique to 12VHPWR.

It seems to me you just need to be a little careful and follow the recommendations when using these cables instead of slapping things together like a monkey.

 

[TheDeeGee]

The only other option i see if they want to keep this design, is to mould the terminals into the plastic. That would ensure they can no longer wiggle around when the cable is being pulled.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, slowly getting more and more reports.

Vectral on Twitter: "Uh oh... Another 4090 (ASUS 4090 TUF OC) with a damaged 12VHPWR power connector just got posted in the same reddit thread as the original Gigabyte card post from today. This is slightly getting out of hand... @Buildzoid1 @Sebasti66855537 https://t.co/oQnaywqBzq" / Twitter

 

[Aquinus]

The only other option i see if they want to keep this design, is to mould the terminals into the plastic. That would ensure they can no longer wiggle around when the cable is being pulled.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, slowly getting more and more reports.

Vectral on Twitter: "Uh oh... Another 4090 (ASUS 4090 TUF OC) with a damaged 12VHPWR power connector just got posted in the same reddit thread as the original Gigabyte card post from today. This is slightly getting out of hand... @Buildzoid1 @Sebasti66855537 https://t.co/oQnaywqBzq" / Twitter

Maybe instead of making new connectors and by treating the symptom, we should probably invest time into having hardware detect these high resistance situations so a user can take action before stuff starts melting or catching fire. Ultimately this is a state that needs immediate action and even with the best of connectors, something can still go wrong. Regardless of connector, I'd like be aware of this situation should it arise before it causes damage.

 

[FinlandApollo]

30 cycles over the course of 5~7 years of usage is not a whole lot, is it... and this is a connector that is not only thinner but also carries higher power.

And molex is certainly not known for its fantastic quality either. It looks and works like bottom barrel junk. Great comparison when we're talking about top end GPU power delivery

As always, cost considerations are clearly in play here and not to greater benefit of end user (safety) or product (longevity).

Do you have better producer than Molex?

And no, that "molex connector" in the PC is not made by Molex, it's a Mate-N-Lok by TE-Connectivity. It's actually one of the few connectors that is NOT made by Molex.

 

[ThrashZone]

30 still appears fine for normal usage. I've disconnected my graphics card zero times in the past year. A reviewer may need more but then, that's a business use with other considerations.

The construction and bend elements are fair game for criticism but, IMO, the 30 (minimum) rating, which may be much higher IRL, isn't an issue.

Hi,
Sorry but when a company says 30 times is a lifetime of a connector it's a pos.

 

[dinmaster]

problem is, they made the cables too small and the connectors (probably why its 30 uses). should be a higher gauge and the connector should be bigger. The designer of this connector thought hey more 12v wires will divide the power and make it safe... nvidia comes along lets go more power 600w over small wires that were designed for 400w.. just regular pcie power connectors is the right design and if you need 3 of them let that be. I personally hope that amd does not go this way in terms of power connectors, don't mess with something that has been working for years.. if anything just add wires, 10 pin pcie connector. we got 6/8 pin ones already that delivery a good amount of power with a good gauge of wire and like i said, have 2 or 3 connectors on the cards like we currently have.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Funny tried to end with a joke