Announcing the TechPowerUp SSD Specs Database

[GabrielLP14]

3-12 months of guarantee that there will not be rotting bits (You'd be surprised how many people didn't know this was a thing for USB pens since those showed-up, where the guarantee was in hours to weeks).
It doesn't mean that after that time you data simply becomes unrecoverable, there's still ECC.
Really comes down to how the PCB is done, but regardless of that, it's worse for higher layered NAND.
Too bad SLC/MLC SSDs for lower capacities aren't a thing anymore, besides halo products.
The Transcend 370S was the last one I could find "widely available", being MLC, back in 2018. And I say it this way because I could find them at a few stores, but those had little stock and had them costing a small fortune for 512GB.

I can imagine, a few years ago i tried buying one Samsung 860 Pro
but jesus, those are extremely expensive

 

[_JP_]

They are, but still waaaay cheaper than the 370S, for the same capacity.

 

[GabrielLP14]

They are, but still waaaay cheaper than the 370S.

wait what? For real? ahahah
But these "Transcend" seems to be "inferior" lol

 

[_JP_]

I figured you'd find it weird, but this I why I went with the 370S, rather than the 860PRO:

Samsung 860 PRO

Transcend 370S
Plus, even more expensive and harder to find, but Transcend also made mSATA versions of the 370S up to 256GB that I needed for some field machines, that had to carry local R/W heavy software.t
But even for myself and I do tend to keep laptops for 10+ years, this gives me some peace-of-mind, regardless of backups. My T430 now has a mid-term solution with EVOs rather than what I'd like to have, but once the funds are available...

 

[GabrielLP14]

I figured you'd find it weird, but this I why I went with the 370S, rather than the 860PRO:
View attachment 273356
View attachment 273354
Samsung 860 PRO
View attachment 273355
Transcend 370S
Plus, even more expensive and harder to find, but Transcend also made mSATA versions of the 370S up to 256GB that I needed for some field machines, that had to carry R/W heavy software.

lol i didn't remember those number from the 860 Pro, but now i get why hahaha
On another matter, what do you think of this layout:

Crucial MX300 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, SATA 6 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

As you can see this SSD has 8 NAND Packages:
6x Micron 32-Layer TLC 1.152Tb (144GiB) "NW853" MT29F1T208ECHBBJ4-3R:B
2x Micron 32-Layer TLC 768Gb (96GiB) "NW852" MT29F768G08EEHBBJ4-3R:B
But we can only add one NAND Flash, what my idea was to add like NAND Flash (Type 1) NAND Flash (Type 2)
Something like this:

 

[_JP_]

Well, IMO, that is great for comparison on the same page but it can easily become cumbersome with the models that had the more bait-and-switch situations.
So, what about keeping one table, however the "(Type 1)", "(Type 2)".."(Type N)" are triggers that dynamically change the same table?

 

[GabrielLP14]

Well, IMO, that is great for comparison on the same page but it can easily become cumbersome with the models that had the more bait-and-switch situations.
So, what about keeping one table, however the "(Type 1)", "(Type 2)".."(Type N)" are triggers that dynamically change the same table?

i don't think i got it, could you illustrate your idea?

 

[Wirko]

On another matter, what do you think of this layout:

Crucial MX300 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, SATA 6 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

As you can see this SSD has 8 NAND Packages:
6x Micron 32-Layer TLC 1.152Tb (144GiB) "NW853" MT29F1T208ECHBBJ4-3R:B
2x Micron 32-Layer TLC 768Gb (96GiB) "NW852" MT29F768G08EEHBBJ4-3R:B

My opinion: too much work just to account for this extremely rare situation, and even with the extra effort, the presentation of data would not be very elegant. Put the larger capacity package in the database and describe whatever makes the smaller package different in the notes. The die is the same, the difference is just 3 vs. 2 of them in a package, right?

 

[Mussels]

3-12 months of guarantee that there will not be rotting bits (You'd be surprised how many people didn't know this was a thing for USB pens since those showed-up, where the guarantee was in hours to weeks, at best).
It doesn't mean that after that time your data simply becomes unrecoverable, there's still ECC.
Really comes down to how the PCB is done, but regardless of that, it's worse for higher layered NAND.
Too bad SLC/MLC SSDs for lower capacities aren't a thing anymore, besides halo products.
The Transcend 370S was the last one I could find "widely available", being MLC, back in 2018. And I say it this way because I could find them at a few stores, but those had little stock and had them costing a small fortune for 512GB.

I've got USB 1.1 flash drives here with an entire 128MB of storage, and they still have decade old data on them - bootable DOS disk I use maybe once every 5 years
Heck look at a PS2 save game cartridge, they're 8MB and work after decades of storage (Do they have a battery?)

Flash memory has changed so much, IMO it's the best examples of tech progression - we've gone from 8MB devices with KB/s transfer rates to multiple TB storage in the same device that are still backwards compatible (SD cards)

 

[GabrielLP14]

My opinion: too much work just to account for this extremely rare situation, and even with the extra effort, the presentation of data would not be very elegant. Put the larger capacity package in the database and describe whatever makes the smaller package different in the notes. The die is the same, the difference is just 3 vs. 2 of them in a package, right?

exactly the die is the same, the only difference is that some nand flash has like 6 dies and others might have 4, for example. but all having the same die

 

[GabrielLP14]

Does anyone have any data or info where i can find Micron's MLC 25nm Dies?

 

[Wirko]

Micron's flash business at the time was a joint venture with Intel, so look for Intel and IMFT too.

IM Flash Technologies - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GabrielLP14]

I've found it but i can't open it :/

IEDM: IM flash details 25mm NAND - Document - Gale Academic OneFile

<em>Gale</em> Academic OneFile includes IEDM: IM flash details 25mm NAND by Laura Peters. Read the beginning or sign in for the full text.

go.gale.com

That's what i've been able to dig so far

Crucial M4 512 GB Specs

512 GB, MLC, SATA 6 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

The database won't be complete until my 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 planar MLC drive makes an appearance. Maybe I can send the VLO ... if the utility runs on Windows XP.

Check it out buddy

Intel X25-M G2 160 GB Specs

160 GB, MLC, SATA 3 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

I'm going to add the 120GB and 80GB, took me a while to find data, but i've finally found it

 

[Wirko]

Check it out buddy

Intel X25-M G2 160 GB Specs

160 GB, MLC, SATA 3 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

I'm going to add the 120GB and 80GB, took me a while to find data, but i've finally found it

Muito obrigado! Nice to see that you can dig up so much info about this old stuff. Also, the 80 and 160 GB models came first, the 120 GB a bit later. There was also the X18-M G2, the 1.8" version, made with same parts, apparently having the same characteristics.

Here is some endurance and overprovisioning info about the X25-M G2. Also at Anand's. The numbers are scaringly low at ~94 P/E cycles but note that this kind of endurance is called "Total 4KB Random Writes (Drive Lifespan)". Ha!

Any plans to cover more old SSDs? I remember the OCZ Vertex line for example, they were immensely popular because of their great performance. At the same time they were very much inclined to die early, at least some models, I don't remember which specifically. Had a Vertex 4 at work for four years, no issues.

 

[GabrielLP14]

Muito obrigado! Nice to see that you can dig up so much info about this old stuff. Also, the 80 and 160 GB models came first, the 120 GB a bit later. There was also the X18-M G2, the 1.8" version, made with same parts, apparently having the same characteristics.

Here is some endurance and overprovisioning info about the X25-M G2. Also at Anand's. The numbers are scaringly low at ~94 P/E cycles but note that this kind of endurance is called "Total 4KB Random Writes (Drive Lifespan)". Ha!

Any plans to cover more old SSDs? I remember the OCZ Vertex line for example, they were immensely popular because of their great performance. At the same time they were very much inclined to die early, at least some models, I don't remember which specifically. Had a Vertex 4 at work for four years, no issues.

Haha no problem.
If i could i'd add everything i see, the issue as we've previously discussed is that regarding SSDs, reviewers typically don't do as in depth as usual for things like GPU or CPUs.
Specially in ancient reviews.
i'd love to add more drives, if you could give me a list of suggestions i'll do my best to add them all
I'm familiar with OCZ but since i'm quite "new" to reviewing SSDs (been doing in depth reviews for 2 years now) i didn't catch OCZ before it was bought by Toshiba.
i'll also update the X25-M G2 thanks again

 

[GabrielLP14]

Hmm what do you guys think of this NAND Flash section of this Samsung 840 EVO 750GB, since it has 2 different NAND Flashs:

Samsung 840 EVO 750 GB Specs

750 GB, TLC, SATA 6 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

I'm "NAMING" IT NAND 2, should i call it something else?

 

[Wirko]

Hmm what do you guys think of this NAND Flash section of this Samsung 840 EVO 750GB, since it has 2 different NAND Flashs:

Samsung 840 EVO 750 GB Specs

750 GB, TLC, SATA 6 Gbps, 2.5"

www.techpowerup.com

View attachment 277952

I'm "NAMING" IT NAND 2, should i call it something else?

MLC *and* TLC, is that correct?

If it is then fine. I mean weird, but your presentation is fine. Maybe add a line or some other visual separation between NAND and NAND2.

But if there's just one type of die and two different chip packages, I suggest doing the same as with the MX300: put the larger package in the database, and leave a mention of the other one in the notes.

 

[W1zzard]

MLC *and* TLC, is that correct?

If it is then fine. I mean weird, but your presentation is fine. Maybe add a line or some other visual separation between NAND and NAND2.

But if there's just one type of die and two different chip packages, I suggest doing the same as with the MX300: put the larger package in the database, and leave a mention of the other one in the notes.

This is a weird one indeed. The "NAND2" are manually added entries that aren't part of the underlying database. The "add custom property" interface doesn't have the capability to add separators. And given how rare this case is I don't think it's worth spending time adding (at this point)

 

[GabrielLP14]

MLC *and* TLC, is that correct?

If it is then fine. I mean weird, but your presentation is fine. Maybe add a line or some other visual separation between NAND and NAND2.

But if there's just one type of die and two different chip packages, I suggest doing the same as with the MX300: put the larger package in the database, and leave a mention of the other one in the notes.

Was MLC indeed, was a typing mistake

 

[GabrielLP14]

Guys i'm coming to you again for help, does anybody have a clue on how to download datasheets from these websites? I can visualize the first pages but not the full documentation

micronnandflashdatasheet_手册nand资源-CSDN文库

镁光nandflash的芯片手册.改芯片手册网上不能免费下载手册nand更多下载资源、学习资料请访问CSDN文库频道.

download.csdn.net

 

[S456]

Guys i'm coming to you again for help, does anybody have a clue on how to download datasheets from these websites? I can visualize the first pages but not the full documentation

micronnandflashdatasheet_手册nand资源-CSDN文库

镁光nandflash的芯片手册.改芯片手册网上不能免费下载手册nand更多下载资源、学习资料请访问CSDN文库频道.

download.csdn.net

Seems to be asking for a login. I used a translator and attached the result.
Did you log-in to it and then get all pages or not? Otherwise looks like it needs some sort of VIP membership.

 

[GabrielLP14]

Seems to be asking for a login. I used a translator and attached the result.
Did you log-in to it and then get all pages or not? Otherwise looks like it needs some sort of VIP membership.
View attachment 278626

Appears so, damn it :/

 

[S456]

Appears so, damn it :/

Have you tried Doc88? I have found that usesful for technical stuff before (though usually standards), and you can usually see the whole document when you click the blue button at the bottom (after the preview).

 

[GabrielLP14]

Have you tried Doc88? I have found that usesful for technical stuff before (though usually standards), and you can usually see the whole document when you click the blue button at the bottom (after the preview).

Never heard of it, link?

 

[S456]

Never heard of it, link?

Just doc88.com. I found it when somebody was talking about electrical standards documents, and I know that it has quite a lot of them. I checked and there are certainly quite a few NAND datasheets there, though I don't think that specific one from the csdn site that you linked to is on there, unfortunately.