AMD Ryzen 9000X3D Processors with 3D V-Cache Arrive in January at CES 2025

[Assimilator]

It would be enough to make the CPUs this way in a single socket:

Except then AMD has a duplicate memory controller on every CCX. And the socket needs to have a whole bunch of unused pins for the <= 8-core parts. And motherboards need to support either dual- or quad-channel memory configurations for the > 8-core parts. And AMD doesn't want to bring quad-channel to mainstream. And so many other reasons.

Far easier to build a half decent memory controller to begin with (well you'd think, but AMD has consistently managed to not do this).

 

[AusWolf]

they just need to build a decent memory controller for once.

And do something with the outdated infinity fabric.

 

[Event Horizon]

I want these to absolutely annihilate my 7800X3D in gaming so that I have something to look forward to.

 

[dirtyferret]

I want these to absolutely annihilate my 7800X3D in gaming so that I have something to look forward to.

you want to look forward to running better benchmarks at resolutions you don't play at?

"AMD is taking extra precautions to ensure a smooth launch and deliver a product that meets the high-performance standards set by its previous 3D V-Cache offerings"

And if people can't be f'd waiting they will buy 7 series or 9 series. Win Win.

I'm personally surprised they announced it so quick. I'm sure it will impact sales for the 9 series among the DIY gamer crowd.

 

[RogueSix]

I want these to absolutely annihilate my 7800X3D in gaming so that I have something to look forward to.

"Annihilation" ain't gonna happen. 7800X3D = 5nm process. 9800X3D = 5nm+ process (called 4nm).

It will be an incremental boost for most games. With AMD's purported cache optimizations, we might end up with a ~15% best case increase in a few cache-sensitive games but otherwise I would tamper expectations.

 

[Makaveli]

"Annihilation" ain't gonna happen. 7800X3D = 5nm process. 9800X3D = 5nm+ process (called 4nm).

It will be an incremental boost for most games. With AMD's purported cache optimizations, we might end up with a ~15% best case increase in a few cache-sensitive games but otherwise I would tamper expectations.

I think the biggest factor will be if they found a way to not have clock speeds lowered due to voltage. If they solved that and the 9800X3D can do more than 5 ghz it will be much faster.

 

[Zach_01]

We have to understand that CPU design wise, AMD does first what suits AMD. Not gamers...

....broken record mode initiated...

The chiplet+IOD design is the best invention ever when you want with exactly the same core design to have CPUs with cores/threads from a few up to hundreds of them.
Unification and cost reduction = better margins, less R&D and headaches...
Keep the super high binned for EPYC (servers) where the market counts profits in many many millions if not billions, have the medium binned for Threadripper and the bottom of the barrel goes to mainstream consumers.
You like it or not... We get the scrap that doesnt fit for serious massive work. Some change in AMD's pockets and also they dont have to dump the chiplets in garbage or in recycle (if they had 2 different designs).

The design is more and more server driven. Doesn't fit well for gaming.
And even worse the IOD is obvious bottleneck now, but not upgrading it yet for cost.

Enter 3D... solution found!

Look around on both AM4/AM5 platforms and the 3DVcache parts will take place on every level of performance and cost from 6 up to 16cores
AMD is not saying it directly, but still loud and clear to me, that gaming is 3DVcache only from now (Zen5) on.

For the above thoughts I'm 99.9% confident.
For next not so much...

AMD can make 3DVcache implementation better.
Rumors (not very reliable lately) want that some improvements will come. design wise and thermally wise.
Maybe not.

My perception... since Zen5 showed that its more bandwidth and latency sensitive (look reviews with tweaked memory)... even the exactly the same cache as the 7000X3Ds have, it will probably be benefited more.

Performance extrapolation from 7000 >> 9000 to 7000X3D >> 9000X3D is too simplistic to my understanding.
Its 2 different designs that most likely behave differently with 3DVcache addition.

I do not play engineer like some here... I look the data and moves from AMD the last few years.
AMD needs this and that... wrong!
AMD is doing exactly what AMD needs

Marketing not so much!

 

[AnotherReader]

And lose the one-chiplet-to-rule-them-all commonality and flexibility? AMD's approach put the L3 much closer to the cores than the competitors do, which resulted in good latency in L3, albeit I'm not sure if it is still better than Intel 13th/14th gens.

RAM access, on the other hand, is IF-bottlenecked which does cause problems. They may well end up doing something about it with Zen 6.

Raptor Lake didn't do anything for the L3 cache and given that Golden Cove has rather high L3 latency, I wouldn't expect Raptor Lake to be any better. Meteor Lake, for instance, has a much higher L3 latency than Zen 5 mobile.

 

[Zach_01]

I want these to absolutely annihilate my 7800X3D in gaming so that I have something to look forward to.

You really dont have to jump to every gen of CPUs.
I'm sure the 7800X3D will still perform well and enough for any gaming experience even if the 9000X3Ds are offering +15~20%.
Do you really need 10, 20 or 30% more performance?
I dont even need it and I'm on 5000nonX3D.

Maybe next year I will jump to 7000X3D which offers nice performance uplift from the 5900X and later on Zen6

Making way more sense if you skip it and go for Zen6 in 3+years.
Always take the best or second best of previous gen when is matured enough and on discount...

 

[AusWolf]

I want these to absolutely annihilate my 7800X3D in gaming so that I have something to look forward to.

And I want these to be just as mediocre as non-X3D Zen 5 so that I won't feel the urge to upgrade unnecessarily.

I think the biggest factor will be if they found a way to not have clock speeds lowered due to voltage. If they solved that and the 9800X3D can do more than 5 ghz it will be much faster.

As long as the CCD sits under the 3D V-cache (hence the 3D in the name), not a chance.

 

[sethmatrix7]

Without competition for the 7800X3D there is no reason to release anything more performant.

 

[HugsNotDrugs]

Given the underlying Zen5 architecture will remain the same for x3D parts the only source of increased performance might be the higher clocks, if rumors are true that AMD has de-coupled core and cache clocks.

If so, the x3D parts might be superior in all respects compared to vanilla Zen5.

 

[_roman_]

You really dont have to jump to every gen of CPUs.

When the MSI (am4) or ASUS Mainboard (am5 current), or the AMD Platform has issues with UEFI or AGESA, I think its better to switch CPUs and try again with fresh hardware. I do not care if it's AMD or MSI / AMD or ASUS fault. The mainboard has issues.

Last two bios do not initialise the USB Keyboard for some reason. Same shit again on am5 as on am4. I tried also different USB-A connectors of my io Panel from the mainbaord. Reboot hangs also. Several times a reset, up to 5 times, suddenly starts the reboot process.

I'll dump the hole setup when there is a decent offer for another mainboard not from ASUS or a mainboard and CPU combo not from ASUS.

--

I do expect that a mainboard works. Sees all USB devices. Is able to boot from any USB-A and any USB-C connector without issues. I do expect UEFI Updates early and not the latest for all available AM5 mainboards from the same brand

Do you really need 10, 20 or 30% more performance?

Sometimes it's better to sell the mainboard / cpu / graphic cards earlier financially. Or for the hidden issues and bugs. Or the low quality UEFI. Functionally. Bad wifi soldered module. ....
I dumped a 5800X for a Ryzen 7600X for example.
Known CPU faults / Security Faults are increasing. Performance is dropping. Less connectivity on the mainboard, e.g. not more than 2 NVME slots.
Hardware out of warranty. When it dies tommorow hole value lost.
Cpu looses value a lot. Mainboard was kinda valueable on the second hand market. 2x32GiB DDR4 RAM was also kinda valueable on the second hand market.
MSI barely provided any UEFI updates after a while. Old mainboards barely gets updates. See the recent Ryzen 3000 Processors without updates. I do not care that AMD changed their minds. 4 year old hardware did not got any updates for security issues.
Threadripper afaik also barely gets updates or new processors. Switching hardware has benefits.

--

My software hardly gets any gain with the 3D-Cache. Just increases the part. 3D-Cache not worth for every workload and for every operating system and every userspace.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Too late Marlene...

AMD should rush the launch of the Ryzen 11000 generation, taking advantage of the crisis of Intel's current CPUs, to increase its sales.

The last thing they should do is rush anything that isn't ready out of the door... that's how you get the Raptor Lake problems in your door.

 

[RogueSix]

I think the biggest factor will be if they found a way to not have clock speeds lowered due to voltage. If they solved that and the 9800X3D can do more than 5 ghz it will be much faster.

Possibly, but AMD have hopefully learned a lesson or two from Intel's fiasco. There is a reason why the clocks were so low on previous gens. Cache is pretty damn sensitive and could be prone to accelerated degradation when hammered with muchos Megahertzos.
That might even be the reason for the later than expected release. Maybe AMD have decided to extend testing after they have witnessed Intel's disaster.

 

[[crs]]

If it gives at least 15% more performance in games across the board than the 5800x3D I may have an excuse to upgrade

 

[wheresmycar]

With the 7800X3D topping gaming charts already and Intel close to releasing AL in the last quarter of 2024, perhaps the Jan-25 9800X3D is a strategic move from AMD? Like a unsolicited sharp green arrow in the blue Arrow Lake momentum? Or, if the 9800X3D is pants compared to last Gen, perhaps buying time to better position the X3Ds offering with value/performance in mind or fine-tuning performance to keep the lead in the Green.

 

[Makaveli]

If it gives at least 15% more performance in games across the board than the 5800x3D I may have an excuse to upgrade

a 7800X3D already does that so even if you add another 10% should be nice from Zen 3.

 

[OMEGAjvn1]

At this point, I don't even know what they should make any CPU's that have single CCD's without V-cache!
If you're a gamer, its not even worth it to not get one with v-cache, and if you're a creator/prosumer, you'll need the dual CCD versions like the 12 and 16 core CPUs.
Anyone else trying to dabble into making content or other workload things won't benefit from the slight frequency boost of not having V-cache.
AMD should just manufacture 6-core and 8-core 3D V-cache CPU en masse to bring down the price, and people would FLOCK to them.
Save the normal CCD's for Epyc and multi-CCD CPUs.

 

[Punkenjoy]

CPU without V-Cache should be avoided by most gamers with the exception of the budget gamers. I don't really mind current Zen 5 performance because i had no intention of getting one at all.

Those CPU are more for the people that just need a computer but do not game and budget offer. They are also good for many workload that do not benefits from a larger L3 or higher frequency.

CPU aren't just for gaming.


I think those Zen 5 X3D could end up being good. Higher frequency with the added benefits of cache could do nice things on this uArch. It seems that under some scenario those core aren't fed enough with just the cache they have and the DDR5 dual channel. Also remember that at that point, Windows 11 24H2 will be released too.

We will see but it would be best if they would release the whole lineup at the same time at some point. Now gamers know there would always be a more cache CPU and will wait for it.

 

[Jism]

What AMD needs to do is place the memory controller on the same die of the x86 cores to minimize RAM access latencies.

That would beat the whole purpose of chiplets.

 

[AusWolf]

When the MSI (am4) or ASUS Mainboard (am5 current), or the AMD Platform has issues with UEFI or AGESA, I think its better to switch CPUs and try again with fresh hardware. I do not care if it's AMD or MSI / AMD or ASUS fault. The mainboard has issues.

Last two bios do not initialise the USB Keyboard for some reason. Same shit again on am5 as on am4. I tried also different USB-A connectors of my io Panel from the mainbaord. Reboot hangs also. Several times a reset, up to 5 times, suddenly starts the reboot process.

I'll dump the hole setup when there is a decent offer for another mainboard not from ASUS or a mainboard and CPU combo not from ASUS.

--

I do expect that a mainboard works. Sees all USB devices. Is able to boot from any USB-A and any USB-C connector without issues. I do expect UEFI Updates early and not the latest for all available AM5 mainboards from the same brand

Booting from USB is a pretty basic thing. If a board doesn't do that, then either your BIOS settings are wrong, or the board is faulty and should be RMAd.

Sometimes it's better to sell the mainboard / cpu / graphic cards earlier financially. Or for the hidden issues and bugs. Or the low quality UEFI. Functionally. Bad wifi soldered module. ....
I dumped a 5800X for a Ryzen 7600X for example.
Known CPU faults / Security Faults are increasing. Performance is dropping. Less connectivity on the mainboard, e.g. not more than 2 NVME slots.
Hardware out of warranty. When it dies tommorow hole value lost.
Cpu looses value a lot. Mainboard was kinda valueable on the second hand market. 2x32GiB DDR4 RAM was also kinda valueable on the second hand market.
MSI barely provided any UEFI updates after a while. Old mainboards barely gets updates. See the recent Ryzen 3000 Processors without updates. I do not care that AMD changed their minds. 4 year old hardware did not got any updates for security issues.
Threadripper afaik also barely gets updates or new processors. Switching hardware has benefits.

--

My software hardly gets any gain with the 3D-Cache. Just increases the part. 3D-Cache not worth for every workload and for every operating system and every userspace.

Personal computing is not an investment. Whether you lose $100 on the price of your CPU now, or 200 by next year doesn't matter. What matters is that you're using it, and the work/entertainment you get out of it.

 

[Punkenjoy]

That would beat the whole purpose of chiplets.

Exactly

AMD doesn't need to ditch chiplets and doesn't need to put things back into CCD. What it need it use a more modern interposer technology. It's the same tech as Zen 2 and iit's certainly cheap, but the bandwidth and latency haven't really improved. They should upgrade to something like what they have on RDNA3. (Fanout bridge if i recall), this way they can have much more bandwidth between the CCD and the I/O die and they could even add direct path to the second CCD when required.

But i wonder if that will happen on AM5 or if we will have to get to Zen 6 to get better interposer technology

 

[Godrilla]

"Annihilation" ain't gonna happen. 7800X3D = 5nm process. 9800X3D = 5nm+ process (called 4nm).

It will be an incremental boost for most games. With AMD's purported cache optimizations, we might end up with a ~15% best case increase in a few cache-sensitive games but otherwise I would tamper expectations.

Exactly the delta will probably be the same as 9700x to 7700x going from 9800x3d from 7800X3D. If they can clock at 10% higher then I don't see going past 10% and from the looks of it 5% will probably be average from my guesstimate. Lol I predicted 4/25 launch availability for the consumer months ago based on 5800x3d and 7800X3D launch patterns.

update. Another prediction Zen4 x3d will cost more than Zen5 non xc3 parts due to supply and demand before Zen5 x3d drops. The price are moving in the opposing directions already. Zen4 x3d significantly higher than just 1 month ago and Zen5 already getting price reduction.

 

[LazyGamer]

So if 9700X is only slightly faster than 7700X, does that mean 9800X3D will be only slightly faster than 7800X3D?