Intel Confirms 13th Gen and 14 Gen Core Voltage Issues Fixed with 0x12B Microcode

[ZoneDymo]

Fail to see how your comment is relevant since you're not the person being asked.

well that doesnt matter because I was not answering the question you asked the other now was I?
I joined into the open conversation and essentially asked you a new question.
Thats how conversations work.....

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

As far as I can see more AMD users have been affected by the Intel issues than Intel users.

genuinely true..

 

[ZoneDymo]

As far as I can see more AMD users have been affected by the Intel issues than Intel users.

This is interesting for tech enthousiasts in general, wether you are on Intel, AMD, Qualcom, you name it.
Personally I have a 12600k finally thinking I had an upgrade path with intel but now...well I dont feel like I do.

Im just going to go AMD for the next build in the future.

 

[rodrigorras]

should we trust Intel?

 

[Crackong]

Ok
So they fixed it again.
I am pretty sure they will fix it again again in 3 months

How can I tall if my CPU was degraded?
CB23 at first day vs now?

You don't.
Just assume all 13/14th CPUs are affected.

 

[SL2]

Nothing to worry about then.

 

[_roman_]

As far as I can see more AMD users have been affected by the Intel issues than Intel users.

Believe me I wrote a lot of bad stuff about my AMD GPU, AMD ASUS Prime X670-P Mainboard and my barely working WLAN "INTEL NIC WI-FI 6 AX210 2230" in the vertical m2 slot of my mainbard.
The intel wlan nic is loosing connection and crashing one of my operating systems in use. Since i bought the wlan module in July 2023. I crosstested with usb tethering only in any operating systems without an issue for weeks. All those newer firmware updates from intel does not fix it at all since i can remember. I was fooled by the "decent" reputation from Intel. The main reason I paid more for that particular wlan module and not going for a 5€ wlan usb stick.
I do not know any decent working INTEL product, regardless if it was on the job or elsewhere. Mostly hinting about all those Intel - HP microtowers (ASUS equivalent) with different issues regarding lost USB connection - wrong drawn screen contents of O365 with W10pro, intel Ethernet and intel Wireless lan with different issues. Most of my previous cpus were from INTEL.

Do you think I should have blacklisted AMD because of dealing with degraded FX chips no longer stable at stock?

If there are alternatives I avoid it. For example I avoided to buy any SAMSUNG NVME drives. The issues repeated after the first issue several times already.
Feel free to buy whatever you want. for x86_64 based plattforms there are not much alternatives as far as i know when you are a windows 11 pro gamer.

 

[Vayra86]

As far as I can see more AMD users have been affected by the Intel issues than Intel users.

Certainly, I picked a nice X3D to avoid this nonsense

 

[Wasteland]

This is interesting for tech enthousiasts in general, wether you are on Intel, AMD, Qualcom, you name it.
Personally I have a 12600k finally thinking I had an upgrade path with intel but now...well I dont feel like I do.

Im just going to go AMD for the next build in the future.

Same boat. I even have a spare LGA1700 motherboard. I had planned to grab a Raptor Lake i7 for my "main" rig and then toss the 12700 plus spare mobo in a secondary machine. It's an upgrade I don't really need, but I figured why not? Then this story broke. The problem, as noted by several previous posters, is trust. CPUs traditionally account for a negligible proportion of hardware failures. As long as you don't overclock, you can typically count on your CPU working for far longer--possibly decades longer--than its performance remains relevant. With zero errors.

Raptor throws that principle out the window. It may work today; it may work tomorrow, but you'll never really know. The fact that Intel announces a new "final" fix for the problem on a biweekly basis certainly doesn't engender confidence. I'm morbidly curious to see how the secondary market shakes out over the mid/long term. I'd bet on Alder Lake holding inflated value and RPL dropping into the toilet. All because of trust. I can't think of a worse scandal relating to a CPU product line, at least not in this century. Prescott was disappointing, but as far as I know it didn't self-destruct. Bulldozer, likewise.

None of this is to say that AMD's recent products have been free of teething issues--EXPO goofiness, extra-long boot times, the infamous burnt socket controversy. Even the Zen 5 launch could be characterized as a blunder--not because an unimpressive generational performance uplift is a big deal in itself, but rather because AMD wildly overhyped it, and in so doing managed to provide cover for Intel's implosion-in-progress. AMD, as the saying goes, never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Then there's the ongoing story of Windows 11's scheduling scheme, which affected/affects both Intel and AMD. (Sidenote: I'm amused at how quickly we went from "You NEED Win11 if you're running e-cores," to, "Linux and even Win10 are superior at handling modern CPUs!") At this point I think you'd have to be desperate and/or mildly insane to buy any new product from Intel or AMD in the first few months after release. Certainly any new platform, chipset, or architectural quirk should be allowed to age out.

 

[Chrispy_]

Why did this take so long to fix, and why did Intel claim there were four different causes?

Insane voltages cause damage and they're pushing their silicon waaaaay too hard.

I'm hoping someone benchmarks the old vs new microcode to work out how much performance has been lost, and also whether the CPUs run any cooler now that they're presumably not being overvolted to the moon and back....

 

[user556]

I'm hoping someone benchmarks the old vs new microcode to work out how much performance has been lost, and also whether the CPUs run any cooler now that they're presumably not being overvolted to the moon and back....

Going back to when I first read about this, I had thought it would end up being a fix for what was only a calculating mistake. And that performance wouldn't be adjusted at all - Because those incorrectly calculated voltages weren't actually needed to get that performance.

However, performance has since taken at least two hits that I know of. The first one came with the "Baseline" firmware changes. The second performance hit came more recently with the root cause fix. This second one being the real humdinger that says Intel had intentionally made the microcode work that way for performance reasons.

Hence, Intel owes everyone a refund for false advertising.

 

[chrcoluk]

Im sure people with a 13/14th gen feel a lot better now.

Right?

Ofc not. You still have a ticking time bomb in your machine. Perhaps! The lack of certainty is enough...

I dont feel any different to what I felt before the article, I am less concerned about this stuff than the people who dont own any of these chips. The most interest on the subject is from non Intel owners who seem obsessed with the subject, but not so obsessed with the continued AGESA problems surrounding USB and TPM.

My approach is the same as always, I use my system as long as it works properly, if a component fails I RMA it if under warranty or buy a replacement. I dont see how this is any different.

Why did this take so long to fix, and why did Intel claim there were four different causes?

Insane voltages cause damage and they're pushing their silicon waaaaay too hard.

I'm hoping someone benchmarks the old vs new microcode to work out how much performance has been lost, and also whether the CPUs run any cooler now that they're presumably not being overvolted to the moon and back....

Its already been tested and is no measurable performance loss, why its took so long? I assume because unlike the baseless claims, Intel needed to figured out what was wrong which takes time, which is the opposite of the pretence they knew it all for many months before disclosing any of it. It took AMD longer to fix TPM stability issues, that problem existed over multiple generations of chips.

Intel seem to be rushing their chips to market too quickly possibly due to the idea something should be released to schedule rather than when it is ready, and that has been exposed here, with the bugs that have needed to be fixed.

 

[umeng2002]

Is this like when cops investigate themselves and find that they didn't do anything wrong?

 

[nguyen]

Well, just flashed the new microcode, hopefully this will be the last time I have to do this.

Had to flash BIOS about 4 times in the last 2 years (I had the Intel LAN dropout issue and the first BIOS flash fixed it), which is 4 too many for me , Intel should do better with Arrow Lake and not relying their users to keep fixing their QA mistakes

 

[Scrizz]

well that doesnt matter because I was not answering the question you asked the other now was I?
I joined into the open conversation and essentially asked you a new question.
Thats how conversations work.....

You didn't ask me any question. You simply made a statement.

 

[Caring1]

As far as I can see more AMD users have been affected by the Intel issues than Intel users.

Certainly not me, as I have AMD and Intel systems and no 13th or 14th Gen CPUs, so no issues to worry about.
At least I have a fallback plan if one craps out.

 

[Vayra86]

I dont feel any different to what I felt before the article, I am less concerned about this stuff than the people who dont own any of these chips. The most interest on the subject is from non Intel owners who seem obsessed with the subject, but not so obsessed with the continued AGESA problems surrounding USB and TPM.

My approach is the same as always, I use my system as long as it works properly, if a component fails I RMA it if under warranty or buy a replacement. I dont see how this is any different.



Its already been tested and is no measurable performance loss, why its took so long? I assume because unlike the baseless claims, Intel needed to figured out what was wrong which takes time, which is the opposite of the pretence they knew it all for many months before disclosing any of it. It took AMD longer to fix TPM stability issues, that problem existed over multiple generations of chips.

Intel seem to be rushing their chips to market too quickly possibly due to the idea something should be released to schedule rather than when it is ready, and that has been exposed here, with the bugs that have needed to be fixed.

Its great you've got that level of comfort and view on the situation. I wouldn't, to be very honest, but maybe that's my OCD talking. The bottom line for me would be the same, but still, every time you've got something happening on your system, there'd be an additional suspect in the CPU...

 

[Chrispy_]

Hence, Intel owes everyone a refund for false advertising.

14th gen especially, since people who paid for those paid more than the price of similar 13th gen variants that were available at the same time and the only real difference for most of the SKUs was a clock bump, presumably via the silicon-damaging voltages that have caused this whole ruckus in the first place.

AFAIK, the only CPU that received any change in core configuration were some of the i7 models that got bumped from 8E to 12E, the rest of 14th gen was just Raptor lake rebranded, with harmful voltage curves to try and reach slightly higher boost clocks.

 

[ShiningSapphire]

Can buy 14600K for half of the current 7800X3D price, get the same performance in games and additional 2yrs of warranty. Thanks Intel.

 

[SAINT ENZO]

these processors Launched OCTOBER 17 2024. Almost a year of running 14th gen while it selfDestructs its silicone.

 

[N/A]

Can buy 14600K for half of the current 7800X3D price, get the same performance in games and additional 2yrs of warranty. Thanks Intel.

Nobody sane is buying 14600K when 235 K is just around the corner with 20% ALUs updated Pcore and 33% IPC Ecore, and X3D outperforms it by 14% in gaming while using half the power while losing in rendering but whatever.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Intel still owes everyone a refund for false advertising.

Oh? Please do explain your logic.

 

[Wirko]

Nobody sane is buying 14600K when 235 K is just around the corner with 20% ALUs updated Pcore and 33% IPC Ecore, and X3D outperforms it by 14% in gaming while using half the power while losing in rendering but whatever.

13th/14th gen: it's been fixed. Intel has thrown a lot of resources into fixing the issues and fixed them. They had to do it to save some reputation. Yes, I honestly believe that, and I wouldn't avoid buying a new i5 or i7 right now (but would still avoid an i9).

15th gen: seriously, you'd buy that on day one? Month one? Year one? The right time would be around October 2025, not much earlier. Besides, you never get a better perf/$ shortly after the launch.

Any gen: you can't avoid checking the voltages often, and again after a bios or microcode update. Intel, AMD, mobo makers and Microsoft deserve less trust than ever before.

 

[lexluthermiester]

15th gen: seriously, you'd buy that on day one? Month one? Year one?

Yup. Granted I have a bit of inside info as to why the fixes can be trusted AND why the newest gen will never be effected by them. 15th gen sees things go back to Intel's normal rock solid stable. I'd also trust the 13th & 14th gen models as long as the boards they're going into have the BIOS fixes applied. This is no different from trusting AMD Ryzen models now that THEIR voltage issues were solved.

All is back to being well in the CPU world. Anyone who says different is ill-informed or has an agenda.

 

[wheresmycar]

The question is, has intel truly resolved all issues related to instability, performance and CPU degradation? As unfortunate it is for existing users - would new 13th/14th gen subscribers be faced with any issues?

The reason why I ask is with Arrow Lake on the horizon, I suspect we might see further discounts on previous generation CPUs, making them a viable option for budget builds