De-Lidded Ryzen 7 9800X3D Pic Confirms 3D V-cache Die Moved Below the CCD

[btarunr]

The upcoming AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D processor is already in the hands of hardware modders, who have put the chip through de-lidding (removal of the integrated heatspreader or IHS), revealing what's underneath. In the 9800X3D de-lidded picture, the CCD appears plain, with no apparent L3D on top, unlike on the 7800X3D (second picture, below). We'd been hearing reports that with the 9000X3D series, AMD has redesigned the way the 3D V-cache die (L3D) and the CPU complex die (CCD) are stacked together, by inverting their arrangement, such that the CCD is on top, and the L3D below.

In past generations of X3D processors, such as the 7800X3D and the 5800X3D, the L3D is stacked on top of the CCD, with structural silicon handling the crucial task of transferring heat from the CPU cores to the IHS. This inversion in stacking should ensure better thermals for the CPU cores, the 9800X3D boosting behavior should be similar to that of non-X3D chips, such as the 9700X. AMD has given the 9800X3D a 120 W TDP and 5.20 GHz boost frequency. This inversion of the CCD and L3D stacking is probably what is behind the "X3D Reimagined" teaser blurb by AMD.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[Chaitanya]

Interesting engineering effort.

 

[tabascosauz]

I guess that solves the thermal limitations once and for all.

Dunno about Vcore though (which the N5 regular CCDs relied on to max boost clock), still need to find a way to decouple Vcore from cache voltage to enable the same on X3D? 5.2GHz is hardly a huge bump like some sources have been describing.

 

[natr0n]

Man Der8auer loves to delid everything.

 

[azrael]

Man Der8auer loves to delid everything.

Maybe he should change his name to Der Del!dder. Better than calling yourself "the farmer".

 

[natr0n]

Maybe he should change his name to Der Del!dder. Better than calling yourself "the farmer".

Based on this info, I assume he used to pwn noobs on fps games

 

[Bwaze]

I know when they first introduced X3D processors there was talk that solution that limits the heat transfer and limits CPU boost because of voltage limitations is temporary, that in a few generations all this will be solved, and also that X3D cache will just become a standard part of CPUs.

We're not there yet, but if there is now less impact on frequencies due to heat transfer, there should be less downsides compared to regular Ryzens in productivity workloads.

 

[azrael]

Based on this info, I assume he used to pwn noobs on fps games

Either that, or he milks cows as a side gig.

 

[natr0n]

Either that, or he milks cows as a side gig.

DerM3lker (Milker)

 

[AusWolf]

I guess that solves the thermal limitations once and for all.

Dunno about Vcore though (which the N5 regular CCDs relied on to max boost clock), still need to find a way to decouple Vcore from cache voltage to enable the same on X3D? 5.2GHz is hardly a huge bump like some sources have been describing.

I don't think Vcore will be an issue to maintain lower clocks that X3D is famous for. 5.2 GHz isn't a lot higher than the 7800X3D's 5 (or 4.8 all-core) which it can hold with 1 V.

We might see some overclocking this time around, but I'm sure it'll be extremely limited.

 

[watzupken]

Man Der8auer loves to delid everything.

Well, if you want people to visit your channel, then you gotta do what most reviewers don't do right? So going to technicalities and delid/ teardown are different topics that may interest some people. And anyway, he is in the business of making custom cooling solutions, like those direct die cooling solution. So he will have to delid those chips to design something.

 

[tabascosauz]

I don't think Vcore will be an issue to maintain lower clocks that X3D is famous for. 5.2 GHz isn't a lot higher than the 7800X3D's 5 (or 4.8 all-core) which it can hold with 1 V.

We might see some overclocking this time around, but I'm sure it'll be extremely limited.

My point is that there's been a lot of talk about "significantly increased clock speeds", so that might have to happen to enable X3D to eventually catch up to the rest of the lineup. Not currently on 7800X3D.

Intel's new DLVR enables per-Pcore and per-cluster Ecore voltage, as well as separate L3. Who knows if AMD will go the same way.

 

[AusWolf]

My point is that there's been a lot of talk about "significantly increased clock speeds", so that might have to happen to enable X3D to eventually catch up to the rest of the lineup. Not currently on 7800X3D.

Well, 5.2 instead of 5 GHz max boost doesn't seem like a "significantly increased clock speed" to me.

 

[tabascosauz]

Well, 5.2 instead of 5 GHz max boost doesn't seem like a "significantly increased clock speed" to me.

Yes, which is what I said. Lol

But the difference could also lie in the 9800X3D being able to hit 5250 out of the box, which 7800X3D doesn't consistently do without CO persuasion. Guess we'll see in due time

I'm pretty sure that back in the day, the official line from AMD regarding Vcache was regarding its [feared] fragility under high Vcore and not temps, which led to them being scaled back so much. Since L3 doesn't generate much heat at all so that's not a concern now, separate voltage rail for L3 a la Arrow Lake could allow the freq gap to further close.

But I also don't see why AMD would want to clock X3D that high. Would stop them from being able to milk the non-X3D parts, since they would not survive without a price cut.

 

[SL2]

Man Der8auer loves to delid everything.

Did he do it? Is it his pic?

I checked the source and both his channels but can't see anything, what am I missing..

Anyone can buy his delidder.

 

[Chomiq]

Did he do it? Is it his pic?

I checked the source and both his channels but can't see anything, what am I missing..

Anyone can buy his delidder.

Run a thumb comparison and let us know the result:

 

[tpuuser256]

I'm pretty sure the delid die mate is compatible with ryzen 9000. I delidded my 8700G and in the website it clearly says it's for ryzen 7000 only to avoid obvious legal trouble.
On that note, I plan to delid a 9950X3D to add LM, that will be fun, hope I get a high clocking bin

 

[Vya Domus]

I guess that solves the thermal limitations once and for all.

It might make them better but certainly not remove them.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes, which is what I said. Lol

Oh. I guess I haven't been paying full attention. Sorry.

But the difference could also lie in the 9800X3D being able to hit 5250 out of the box, which 7800X3D doesn't consistently do without CO persuasion. Guess we'll see in due time

I doubt any Ryzen 7/9 could ever hold advertised max boost consistently, but if that's the case now, it'll be pretty sweet.

I'm pretty sure that back in the day, the official line from AMD regarding Vcache was regarding its [feared] fragility under high Vcore and not temps, which led to them being scaled back so much. Since L3 doesn't generate much heat at all so that's not a concern now, separate voltage rail for L3 a la Arrow Lake could allow the freq gap to further close.

But I also don't see why AMD would want to clock X3D that high. Would stop them from being able to milk the non-X3D parts, since they would not survive without a price cut.

That's true as well.

 

[SL2]

Run a thumb comparison and let us know the result:

There's no pic of any thumb and a 9000 CPU here anyway lol

I wonder how many 1851 heaters he will sell..

I'm pretty sure the delid die mate is compatible with ryzen 9000. I delidded my 8700G and in the website it clearly says it's for ryzen 7000 only to avoid obvious legal trouble.

Roman have showed on youtube that it works with 7000/8000/9000.

 

[TheDeeGee]

Maybe he should change his name to Der Del!dder. Better than calling yourself "the farmer".

Der1idder

 

[Carillon]

There's no pic of any thumb and a 9000 CPU here anyway lol

Until I see the bottom cache die, that's a picture of a delidded 9700x to me

 

[izy]

Any chance that it will have the PBO + Boost Clock override (AutoOC +200Mhz) unlocked in BIOS ? That would be nice .

 

[SL2]

Until I see the bottom cache die, that's a picture of a delidded 9700x to me

Yeeeah, that's not even what we talked about

 

[Chane]

Nice change, moving the cache underneath the core. I'm already at 5133Mhz on my 7800x3D with BCLK overclock, so I'll sit out this generation.