AMD Debuts Radeon RX 9070 XT and RX 9070 Powered by RDNA 4, and FSR 4

[AusWolf]

Again, perception matters and for majority it makes no sense for a “second rate” player to ask for the same price point as the leader. I agree it might not be “fair” and whatever, but this IS the majority perception. You say it’s not logical, but for them - it is. And it’s absolutely showing in Radeons ever dwindling market share. Getting outraged on behalf of AMD does not help them, unfortunately.

It is not logical, period. If a GPU can do 100 FPS, and another one also does 100 FPS, then there is no reason for them to be priced differently. You don't pay for "second or first rate players", you pay for a product.

Some people say jumping off a bridge is logical if your life sucks. Would you say yeah, it's logical for them? No. It is not logical.

Edit: With that logic, Intel's B580 should cost $100.

Does it though? If you have the infrastructure laid, supply chain at the ready, they really don't cost much. Heck sell X amount and it pays for the hardware that built it, for the guys on the software end, and with a little profit on top, or a lot of profit depending on how efficient your operation is..

That's the same for the whole industry, not just for one company.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

No, it's not logical. A GPU costs so much to make and offers so much performance. Why should it be cheaper than the competing product?

Ok, so if I make a GPU that is only compatible with DX9, but is as fast as a 4090, would that GPU be worth $1500?

 

[freeagent]

Any 40 series, 30 series, 20 series, 10 series, and beyond can do more than play games, they can do actual work. Not that I do anything really productive with mine other than F@H now and then, and maybe use my GPU to bust down a video to put on my phone, because it is a lot faster than my CPU.. nothing wrong with Nvidia, you just pay more, but you also get more if you can use it.

And look at RT, how long have AMD users been saying RT sucks, yet AMD disagrees lol..

 

[AusWolf]

Ok, so if I make a GPU that is only compatible with DX9, but is as fast as a 4090, would that GPU be worth $1500?

Is the 9070 XT only compatible with DX9? I don't see the point in this argument in the present situation.

 

[Onasi]

It is not logical, period. If a GPU can do 100 FPS, and another one also does 100 FPS, then there is no reason for them to be priced differently. You don't pay for "second or first rate players", you pay for a product.

You are being incredibly naive here. Hey, both a cheap Casio watch and a Breitling show time exactly the same. Why would one cost more than the other, right? Same product, really. Again - PERCEPTION. MIND SHARE. You might not care about “second or first rate players”, but the market absolutely does. If GPUs sold only on their raw performance stats Radeon would not be in a position they are. So no, using the logic of the “people” is very much applicable. Note how I say “logic”. I know it might be a lost distinction for some, but what I did NOT say is that it’s rational. What you describe is pure rational pragmatism. This, however, is not always aligned with the masses consumer logic.
Seriously, why are you even arguing the point? It’s self evident from the state of the GPU market.

 

[AusWolf]

Any 40 series, 30 series, 20 series, 10 series, and beyond can do more than play games, they can do actual work. Not that I do anything really productive with mine other than F@H now and then, and maybe use my GPU to bust down a video to put on my phone, because it is a lot faster than my CPU.. nothing wrong with Nvidia, you just pay more, but you also get more if you can use it.

Ok, CUDA is a good point, although F@H runs on AMD too as far as I know (at least BOINC does).

And look at RT, how long have AMD users been saying RT sucks, yet AMD disagrees lol..

And I'll keep saying that until I get decent performance without upscaling. Whether AMD agrees or disagrees, I don't care. They have to show something worthwhile before my jaw drops.

 

[freeagent]

And I'll keep saying that until I get decent performance without upscaling

Retire your 2060 and you wont have to use upscaling.

 

[AusWolf]

You are being incredibly naive here. Hey, both a cheap Casio watch and a Breitling show time exactly the same. Why would one cost more than the other, right? Same product, really. Again - PERCEPTION. MIND SHARE.

In other words: people are stupid. It's not logical, but it's fact.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Is the 9070 XT only compatible with DX9? I don't see the point in this argument in the present situation.

Well, you keep insisting that features dont matter to price, only performance. DX12 is a feature. RT is a feature. So where is your cutoff?

 

[RedelZaVedno]

ATI and old AMD used to know how to bring us joy with legends like 9700 PRO, 5870, 7970 where they were competing with the best and costed a lot less. Now we're going from one shitshow to another. Even when they have a good product they F it up by pricing it too high or buggy drivers on release day. No wonder their market share went down from 40ies into single digit numbers. It breaks my heart to witness this decline as someone who owned all of the above GPUs and 290X, 480, 5700XT, 6800XT, to finally give up and moved to Green team. AMD please give me back the reason buy your products again. Either by attractive price to performance or pure performance, because now you have neither

 

[AusWolf]

Retire your 2060 and you wont have to use upscaling.

With RT? No, you can't.

What I mean is, no AMD card, and no Nvidia card below the 4080 can do proper RT without upscaling. If AMD decides to follow Nvidia and say that RT is great, they'll have to show it with the 9070 XT. I'm waiting.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Some more info from I guess a Q&A.... They didn't have time for RDNA4.... A presentation will come later when they have time lol...

 

[AusWolf]

Well, you keep insisting that features dont matter to price, only performance. DX12 is a feature. RT is a feature. So where is your cutoff?

They both run on AMD cards. And I ain't paying a penny extra for DLSS, because 1. I don't like upscaling, and 2. Even if I did, we've got FSR.

 

[95Viper]

I am only going to post this warning once.

Stay on topic.
Post about the topic and not other members.
Post per the guidelines.
Be civil in your responses.

 

[AusWolf]

Some more info from I guess a Q&A.... They didn't have time for RDNA4.... A presentation will come later when they have time lol...

Really? What a strange excuse.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Really? What a strange excuse.

They did say the number one priority is value and that they don't want to release a product that just tanks in price at retail saying only a few RDNA3 gpu were viewed favorably.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

They both run on AMD cards. And I ain't paying a penny extra for DLSS, because 1. I don't like upscaling, and 2. Even if I did, we've got FSR.

So, it is reasonable to say if both AMD and nvidia cards can use DX12 and RT, but AMD is noticeably slower, it should be cheaper, since it cannot maintain the same performance? Then why the insistence that AMD shouldnt be discounting their hardware compared to nvidia?

 

[AusWolf]

So, it is reasonable to say if both AMD and nvidia cards can use DX12 and RT, but AMD is noticeably slower, it should be cheaper, since it cannot maintain the same performance? Then why the insistence that AMD shouldnt be discounting their hardware compared to nvidia?

Not everybody needs a 4090. I don't, for example.

 

[RedelZaVedno]

Some more info from I guess a Q&A.... They didn't have time for RDNA4.... A presentation will come later when they have time lol...

This basically tells us how much AMD values it's Radeon division at least it's dGPU part. None, nada, niente.
For god sake Lisa, please just sell it to whoever. Maybe Arm or Intel or Chinese. You're clearly not interested in retail dGPUs

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Not everybody needs a 4090. I don't, for example.

I never said they did. Do you agree that if AMD's equivalent card is slower then Nvidia's it should be priced lower, even if it is int he same "tier"?

This basically tells us how much AMD values it's Radeon division at least it's dGPU part. None, nada, niente.
For god sake Lisa, please just sell it to whoever. Maybe Arm or Intel or Chinese. You're clearly not interested in retail dGPUs

That would be a terrible idea. Selling it means AMD no longer owns it's iGPUs and has to license them, AND depend on a third party for development. The "dGPU" portion really just means a license to use their arch, its not like dGPUs use radically different tech then the rest of RTG.

 

[Visible Noise]

This basically tells us how much AMD values it's Radeon division at least it's dGPU part. None, nada, niente.
For god sake Lisa, please just sell it to whoever. Maybe Arm or Intel or Chinese. You're clearly not interested in retail dGPUs

Is there anything left to sell?

 

[AusWolf]

They did say the number one priority is value and that they don't want to release a product that just tanks in price at retail saying only a few RDNA3 gpu were viewed favorably.

That's because the 7600 didn't offer anything on top of the 6650 XT, and the 7800 XT got the wrong name and people assumed that it succeeded the 6800 XT, when in fact, it was priced at 6700 XT level. The 7900 XTX was a good buy until the 4080 Super was released, because the pricing on the vanilla 4080 was a slap in the face. The 7700 XT and 7900 XT were priced way too close to their big brothers so no one cared. They're all solid products, but AMD managed to F it all up mostly with stupid marketing and product placement within the stack.

I never said they did. Do you agree that if AMD's equivalent card is slower then Nvidia's it should be priced lower, even if it is int he same "tier"?

Slower product, lower price, I agree, that's fair. But what's the point here?

Is there anything left to sell?

Just basically the entirety of the console APU market. Nothing major.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

This basically tells us how much AMD values it's Radeon division at least it's dGPU part. None, nada, niente.
For god sake Lisa, please just sell it to whoever. Maybe Arm or Intel or Chinese. You're clearly not interested in retail dGPUs

Maybe AMD's endgame is to drop so low in market share Nvidia is declared a monopoly, and then from the Ashes AMD will return..... jk jk but I don't think it's that dire yet....

That's because the 7600 didn't offer anything on top of the 6650 XT, and the 7800 XT got the wrong name and people assumed that it succeeded the 6800 XT, when in fact, it was priced at 6700 XT level. The 7900 XTX was a good buy until the 4080 Super was released, because the pricing on the vanilla 4080 was a slap in the face. The 7700 XT and 7900 XT were priced way too close to their big brothers so no one cared. They're all solid products, but AMD managed to F it all up mostly with stupid marketing and product placement within the stack.

Everyone but the most diehard amd fanboy knows they fumbled RDNA3 big time and they were coming off some momentum with RDNA2 and squandered it.

Hopefully the 9070XT is good right out of the gate and everyone goes damn that is what I am talking about.

 

[Kapone33]

Any 40 series, 30 series, 20 series, 10 series, and beyond can do more than play games, they can do actual work. Not that I do anything really productive with mine other than F@H now and then, and maybe use my GPU to bust down a video to put on my phone, because it is a lot faster than my CPU.. nothing wrong with Nvidia, you just pay more, but you also get more if you can use it.

And look at RT, how long have AMD users been saying RT sucks, yet AMD disagrees lol..

I see RT just like USB4 something we did not ask for but because of the narrative are given.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Slower product, lower price, I agree, that's fair. But what's the point here?

Well, ask yourself that question:

No, it's not logical. A GPU costs so much to make and offers so much performance. Why should it be cheaper than the competing product?

If AMD is slower in RT AND in raster compared to nvidia, why is it "not logical" for AMD to be sold significantly cheaper then nvidia? You already agreed that if the card is slower it should be cheaper, so.....