Material Used in LCD 17,000-times More Warming-Effective Than CO2

[HTC]

Do you know of the volcano of Mount Tambora eruption in 1815?

From Wikipedia:

Mount Tambora (or Tomboro) is an active stratovolcano, also known as a composite volcano, on Sumbawa island, Indonesia. Sumbawa is flanked both to the north and south by oceanic crust, and Tambora was formed by the active subduction zones beneath it. This raised Mount Tambora as high as 4,300 m (14,000 ft),[2] making it one of the tallest peaks in the Indonesian archipelago, and drained off a large magma chamber inside the mountain. It took centuries to refill the magma chamber, its volcanic activity reaching its peak in April 1815.[3]

Tambora erupted in 1815 with a rating of seven on the Volcanic Explosivity Index, making it the largest eruption since the Lake Taupo eruption in AD 181.[4] The explosion was heard on Sumatra island (more than 2,000 km or 1,200 mi away). Heavy volcanic ash falls were observed as far away as Borneo, Sulawesi, Java and Maluku islands. The death toll was at least 71,000 people (perhaps the most deadly eruption in history), of whom 11,000–12,000 were killed directly by the eruption;[4] the often-cited figure of 92,000 people killed is believed to be an overestimate.[5] The eruption created global climate anomalies; 1816 became known as the Year Without a Summer because of the effect on North American and European weather. Agricultural crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in the worst famine of the 19th century.[4]

Do you know what the overall decrease in temperature (globally) was?

According to this, it was ~3º: ~3º and it caused a year without summer.

For a few more years after 1815, the temperatures recorded were abnormally low.


OK: this was a 1 time event but i'm only using it to show what a mere 3º difference in global temperature can do.

We're seeing a 0.5 increase over the last 100 years or so and, although it seems insignificant to many, it most certainly is NOT.

 

[candle_86]

oh yes it is, how does a lack of winter hurt us?

It just means we can grow crops year round actully, the problem was the drop in temp, not the rise, how much more food would we have if we harvested on January 10th and again in the summer time compared to one crop? As for the heat issue caused by this, well +.5C doesnt hinder plants at all, give it another 5,000 years for that +.5c to make it +25C and we got a problem, but in the near future if you understand farming youd realize most crops wont be affected till you gain around 10C on them.

 

[tkpenalty]

This is what happens:

We who believe in Global warming use scientific sources to prove our point.

Then you guys who deny it deny the facts without any scientific backup. NICE JOB.

That image you denied proves even if the world blows up you still wont believe it .


provide me with a source that states that that graph is not 100% accurate?


Provide me with a source that states that "Global Warming" is different to "Climate Change" in every way


and finally, provide me with a SCIENTIFIC source that states that climate change is not being accelerated by humans



GREED for MONEY. George W Bush, basically was a smart idiot. He was smart that he had a presedential campaign that had less taxes to win the election, compared to Al Gore. But hes an idiot at the same time; his ways endangers the world by balantly ignoring, and educating the US against "Global Warming"


One question; why is it, that the people who deny such Global warming mainly come from the US? Does your education system even have "Climate change/global warming" as part of the Syllabus?

I really think, it is 100% impossible to convince you people.

 

[tkpenalty]

Update: "Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations. This is an advance since the TAR's conclusion that "most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations". Discernible human influences now extend to other aspects of climate, including ocean warming, continental-average temperatures, temperature extremes and wind patterns" (IPCC 2007).

Source: http://www.helpsavetheclimate.com/climatechange2.html

I find it really hard to believe the arrogance of people who havent been educated in such a field of study proficiently to deny such evidence. We provide books of evidence; our rebuttal = a short phrase + legal intervention.

 

[HTC]

This is what happens:

We who believe in Global warming use scientific sources to prove our point.

Then you guys who deny it deny the facts without any scientific backup. NICE JOB.

That image you denied proves even if the world blows up you still wont believe it .


provide me with a source that states that that graph is not 100% accurate?


Provide me with a source that states that "Global Warming" is different to "Climate Change" in every way


and finally, provide me with a SCIENTIFIC source that states that climate change is not being accelerated by humans



GREED for MONEY. George W Bush, basically was a smart idiot. He was smart that he had a presedential campaign that had less taxes to win the election, compared to Al Gore. But hes an idiot at the same time; his ways endangers the world by balantly ignoring, and educating the US against "Global Warming"


One question; why is it, that the people who deny such Global warming mainly come from the US? Does your education system even have "Climate change/global warming" as part of the Syllabus?

I really think, it is 100% impossible to convince you people.

I would like to see that as well.

Meanwhile, i found this (PDF file): learned a few things that i was unaware too!

 

[btarunr]

I'm proud of you guys. You've put up such a great discussion over something most ignore.

 

[mdm-adph]

prove it, find me prove of that fact that what that graph shows is unnatural. Anyone know why Global Warming is a Theroy and not a fact, because to become a fact you have to prove it and they can't

Hey, look -- it's the old "it's not a fact, it's a theroy [sp]" argument! Man, I remember that one from back in the day. Strangely enough, it's usually only brought up by people who aren't scientists and who don't spend all of their time in laboratories performing experiments all day.

Let me just remind you that technically gravity is still considered just a "theory," too, you know.

I'm proud of you guys. You've put up such a great discussion over something most ignore.

I agree -- no matter what viewpoint you take, (somewhat) rational discourse on a matter is always a good thing. I find it odd, however, that the real issue here is one that's being ignored completely (hint: it's not "global warming" or "the environment"):

Universal entropy -- how to stop it?

 

[Rey17]

wow, that figure is big !! lol

 

[Black Panther]

oh yes it is, how does a lack of winter hurt us?

It just means we can grow crops year round actully, the problem was the drop in temp, not the rise, how much more food would we have if we harvested on January 10th and again in the summer time compared to one crop? As for the heat issue caused by this, well +.5C doesnt hinder plants at all, give it another 5,000 years for that +.5c to make it +25C and we got a problem, but in the near future if you understand farming youd realize most crops wont be affected till you gain around 10C on them.

Lack of winter might not hurt one country but hurt another.
As much as I love the summer, I can't imagine Malta without a winter.
It only rains for four months here, and very sparsely - total rainfall for a whole year is like 20 inches!

The highest ever temperature was August 1999 where it reached a sweltering 44 degrees in the shade! Fortunately it never got higher than that (meaning there's no warming?) though occasionally it goes up to 38-40 degrees.

Myself I'm not much sure about CO2 contributing to temperature warming, if it is indeed happening. I've read studies saying that sunspot activity (the 11 year cycle) affects temperatures, others still attribute warming to the sun's slowly but steadily increasing girth....

 

[Grimskull]

@Tkpenalty..... im not from the US, im in Europe. Theres thousands and thousands of people that dont buy into the global warming/climate change scam. i never bought into it, never will. Yes i believe in conserving our natural resources, but CO2 leading to global warming?? nah.... CO2 falls... its a heavy gas.... how can it climb to the atmosphere... thats gravity... hang on... gravity is a theory.... climate change must be too....

There was suppose to be WMD's in Iraq.... All the Coalition leaders in the US and UK said there was.. there was proof (apperantly).... have they found any???

I wouldnt mind a warmer summer here in Ireland.... we only get 2 weeks of sunshine... the rest is wind, rain, rain, rain, rain... did i mention rain????

 

[Zubasa]

Oh, yeah, thanks for forgetting Australia.
I do believe that global warming is being accelerated by humans, and it really sucks; raise another few degrees and soon I'll be having 50C summers!

As for OLEDS, the O in the name stands for Organic; they're made out of hydrocarbons and the like, so they can't be too bad...

Well... we will get 54C summers in Hong Kong nice......

 

[flashstar]

They did find hundreds of gas bombs from the 80's in Iraq...

@ HTC

Global temperatures dipped because massive amounts of ash were released into the atmosphere and blocked out the sun. It has nothing to do with CO2 itself.

 

[Triprift]

I remember a few days when i lived in a little country town up North Woomera were it hit 50c when i was young now thats hot. I dont want to experience them temps again ever but most likely will.

 

[btarunr]

It touches 48 C where I come from. The city has lakes and resevoirs around it. So that's 48 C + >50% RH. Ouch.

 

[zithe]

It's worse than just another online newspaper, it's political. There are alterior motives there, they are not just trying to spread factual information, not to say they are worthless, there is certainly some good info there. And yes, when speaking of scientific matters, I think the fact that it is a blog does remove it's credibility. It means it wasn't reviewed or edited by an outside source before making it there. I wouldn't use them as arguments.

I haven't heard about that insect you speak of, I'd certainly like to though, definitely link some info on that. And the middle-easter and arabian countries are claiming the skyrocketing prices are not b/c they are not selling enough, but b/c of the failing US dollar and economic situations here. I don't trust that explanation or our own gov't's completely, but what can you do?

The gas prices in england would translate into about 10 USD. I doubt it's the 'failing dollar' in the US.

I know it's times, but bear with me. XD
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece
There are several hits on this when you google "Insect excretes petroleum". :3

Your response confuses me. All I see out of it is: "Your source sucks but it may or may not be true."

 

[Darkrealms]

Do your part get propane! LoL, at least it'll be cheaper. Or if you’re that against CO2 ride a bicycle. If everyone did that prices would plummet.

I believe the universe has cycles, therefore our sun, earth, seasons, climates, etc, etc have cycles. Can man have an effect on the cycles? On earth and below yes. Do we actually have the "global warming" effect. I believe No.
There is "evidence" on both sides of the argument. Yes "Day After Tomorrow" was a great movie, I own it. Does it prove anything? No.

Should we be stewards of the planet we live on? Yes.
Should things like "global warming" have an effect on our stewardship? No. We should do what we UNDERSTAND is best, and when we find out we are wrong we should do what we UNDERSTAND is best again.

 

[farlex85]

The gas prices in england would translate into about 10 USD. I doubt it's the 'failing dollar' in the US.

I know it's times, but bear with me. XD
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece
There are several hits on this when you google "Insect excretes petroleum". :3

Your response confuses me. All I see out of it is: "Your source sucks but it may or may not be true."

That's bizarre, cool though, I'll be on the lookout for further developments in that bug thing. I'm not really saying your sources suck, I'm just saying with things of this nature I've begun to only trust true scientific sources b/c of the media's and politicians slants on the subject. A couple of those articles actually have scientific articles as the subject, so that's good at least. And it's also probable that many scientific articles on the subject have been influenced by alterior motives as well. Basically, I'm saying I don't know one way or the other, I've read scientific data supporting both sides, and I genuinely don't know, I think the verdict is still out and it's a little foolish to totally commit to one way or the other. But I wouldn't use a political blog as a basis for an argument. Like I said before, global warming to me is more of a symbol for the need for eco-friendly action than being a serious problem in of itself.

 

[zithe]

I'm having trouble finding any good sources these days. It's hard to determine if the scientist is making up crap (being paid) or actually saying something worth listening to.

 

[mdm-adph]

They did find hundreds of gas bombs from the 80's in Iraq...

I know this is way off topic, but gas bombs that the US gave Saddam in the 80's shouldn't count towards the "missing WMD's" needed to justify the current conflict in Iraq. :shadedshu

Anyway -- the way I see it, any environmental problems created by the production of LCD's are probably negated by the much, much smaller energy requirements used by them in lieu of CRT's. So there.

I'm having trouble finding any good sources these days. It's hard to determine if the scientist is making up crap (being paid) or actually saying something worth listening to.

You make a damn good point! However, you can usually be sure of where a scientist's intentions lie by looking at where they publish their papers -- if they publish them in something called a "peer-reviewed journal," where other scientists are free to check and verify their work, you can usually trust it. However, if the scientist in question releases his work immediately to the news media, or anything else, cast it in doubt.

 

[Rash-Un-Al]

Debate

This is what happens:

We who believe in Global warming use scientific sources to prove our point.

There are scientifically founded studies from various sources which question the validity of the man-made global-warming claim (and, to your surprise or dismay, they are not all US-derived).
http://www.oism.org/pproject/GWReview_OISM150.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1131275.stm

Then you guys who deny it deny the facts without any scientific backup. NICE JOB.

That image you denied proves even if the world blows up you still wont believe it .

The image, to which you refer, does nothing more than to provide a (very low resolution) visual reference of temperatures with respect to time. It fails, however, to describe exactly if, how, or to which extent man has contributed to the increases and decreases in temperature.

provide me with a source that states that that graph is not 100% accurate?

Provide us with a source that states the information in the (above) PDF -- which encompasses far more than a temperature/time graph -- is inaccurate.

and finally, provide me with a SCIENTIFIC source that states that climate change is not being accelerated by humans

Provide us with a source which proves not only man's contributions to global warming, but also to which extent, in addition to the specific ways in which these contributions will negatively affect the earth and the livelihood of persons, animals, and plant life.

One question; why is it, that the people who deny such Global warming mainly come from the US? Does your education system even have "Climate change/global warming" as part of the Syllabus?

In the event you have been unaware, the US is at the forefront of studies which support each side of the argument. Are you not interested in fair and open debate?

It just so happens that approximately 31,000 US scientists – approximately 9,000 of whom hold scientific PhDs – disagree with the claims of the 2,500 (or so) IPCC scientific reviewers.

http://tadcronn.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/global-warming-consensus-31000-scientists-disagree/

 

[yogurt_21]

One question; why is it, that the people who deny such Global warming mainly come from the US? Does your education system even have "Climate change/global warming" as part of the Syllabus?

I really think, it is 100% impossible to convince you people.

"you people" indicates prejudice, I'd be careful with these comments as you basically just stated that everyone in the US is the same and that they all think the same way.

and you're complaining about a few months of no rain? try 9-11 that's the AZ cycle we have rain 1 portion of the year and have to store it all up. It's called a desert and it hasn't changed since long before people got there. We store it up in AZ california uses it up, california says they're in a drought, in az we call it a dry season and a monsoon season. So basically your govenment didnt' store enough water from the rains, or allotted too much for the population and then calls it a drought. that has nothing to do with the topic on hand and everything to do with poor planning. It's a desert, you can't all have grass, pools, golf courses, waterparks and expect there to be enough water to drink.

global warming is a gross misinterpretation based off of speculation. and that nice little graph you guys are flashing shows a DECREASE in temperature during the industrail revolution which go against the entire theary of glabal warming. coal powerplanst produce more emissions than nuclear ones and yet that graph shows those coal plans dropping the temperture yet still says that global warming is because of man? so it's either graph=fake or glabal warming = fake. take your choice.


and yes all the "evidence " of the polar ice caps melting. it's a 3d ice cap, you can't just measure it's area, you have to go by volume and while the surface area is shrinking, it's volume underneath is growing.


AZ is a desert and over the past 200 years our temperture have dropped by 2 degrees farenheit. and to put that in perspective az 200 years ago had no industriaization and fewer than 100,000 inhabitants. now we're over 6 million with nuclear powerplants "concrete islands" (look it up) and over 4 million cars cross our roads everyday. (mass transit, wtf is that psh)
and yet with all those pollutants we dropped temperature by 2 degrees huh the world it totally warming cause yea yeah it's totally possible for the deserts to cool down while the world warms.

 

[zithe]

The thing that urks me most is that people just keep arguing that CO2 drives up temperature as if they had proven it to me and I believed it. You haven't proven it, and I don't believe it. Show me an actual test with several cases, using scientific method of course. Take those cases and fill them with gas. One with nothing but oxygen, one with half C02 and half Oxygen, and one completely filled with CO2. Fill the bottom with a small amount of dirt to make an even layer that's a couple inches thick, and place temperature sensors on top of the dirt in each one (Several sensors to increase reliability) and collect the temperatures for a week. Note this must be done in the sun or something similar.

Do some sort of test or something like it. I just need someone to actually prove whether CO2 affects temperature. My idea is that temperature controls CO2 levels, not the other way around, so the controlled amount of gases in each case will not leave dependent variables unchecked.

 

[HTC]

They did find hundreds of gas bombs from the 80's in Iraq...

@ HTC

Global temperatures dipped because massive amounts of ash were released into the atmosphere and blocked out the sun. It has nothing to do with CO2 itself.

Yes: i know.

The sole reason i brought it up was to say what a mere ~3º drop (in global temperature) can do and that it's a BIG mistake to think that a 0.5º global increase is pretty much nothing.

It is possible, however, that the drop in the temps in 1815 were not the sole reason for the lack of Summer of 1816: the blocked sun was probably a factor as well.

In any case, the temperature DID drop, globally, by ~3º and, whether or not it was the only reason, it did cause a Summerless year.

 

[pentastar111]

I am from the U.S. And I am alittle more than concerned with whats happening in the world today (Alright TK?!) But I would like to know what the hell the truth REALLY is. On one hand we've go people saying we are warming...On the other there are those that say phtt! no way!...Let's take CO2 out of the equation...Here's one fact...The glaciers are receding...Why?...That would mean the oceans are warming...If the ocean is getting warmer, we do have some real problems...THE THAWING OF FROZEN METHANE...But is this really a problem? This has happened before...There used to be lush tropical jungles at the POLES! So even if this were to happen, we'd still be alive. Now let's bring CO2 back into the picture. I believe we are speeding up what would have occured anyway...Back to the LCD issue...I really don't think that that process compares to the emissions put out by the millions of cars on the road, let alone the co2 emmited by the billions of humans who breath everday. It is not going to stop...There is really no way to REVERSE it. It is called change...Uncomfortable and uncontrollable...We just have do deal with it...Mankind has dealt with severe change in the past and we will in the future.

 

[magibeg]

If you guys are not going to talk about nothing but global warming fight in this thread http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=59647&highlight=global+warming.

Just read through it before you guys start posting on it.