13700k - Gigabyte B760M DS3H MB - E-Cores running at half speed, Benchmarks at half expected?

[Gica]

13700K + B760M DS3H (6 phases for cores) cannot be a happy couple.
I have i5-13500 + B660M DS3H and the best solution for undervolting was to go with Adaptive and what can be seen in the capture at Advanced Voltage.
The offset variant did not give satisfactory results. A value that is too high affects the voltage of the processor when it is idle, the system becomes unstable, and the impact in heavy loads is modest.
The limitation to 95W chosen for cooler reasons.

However, the results in heavy tasks are satisfactory. In Cinebench R23 it gets almost 19k, the maximum for the unlocked processor being 21K.
Single core, small and medium load results are not affected. HandBrake (using H.265 Intel QSV) is also unaffected. It maintains its rate of 300+ fps for the profile I use most often.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Shrimps got you handled

Nah, just trying to help.

He just needs a little better cooler and probably be just fine.

When I have Asus's performance enhancement enabled, the board shuts off in the middle of the benchmark cause the v-core keeps raising. Once it hits over 1.40v, it's no longer a controlled experience.

I don't know if Gigabyte has a similar feature on their boards, but if it does, I'd shut that right off first go.

 

[Why_Me]

@LightCC42 you should have went with the locked version of that cpu.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html
Processor Base Power: 65W
Maximum Turbo Power: 219W

Board with better VRM's that won't break the bank.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...ii-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-b760-p-ddr4-ii

PRB B760-P DDR4 II

PRO series motherboards tuned for better performance by 12 Duet Rail Power System, DDR4 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen4 PCIe, Extended Heatsink, M.2 Shield Frozr, 2.5G LAN, Front Type-C

www.msi.com

 

[LightCC42]

To stay on topic.

This is 13700K XMP with OC.
Asus Performance enhancement disabled.
LLC at Lvl2 with a droop min v-core of 1.314v

At all defaults, it throttles 100c
With only LLC reduced, stays a bit cooler without sacrifice the CB score.

...
Here is Under-Volt protection ENABLED - WITH an under-volt.
Notice the V-core states 1.314v, the temps are lower, and the score now dips under 30K, but respectable to the clock frequency.
The under-volt skew is not reflective of actual clock frequency. Management engine controls the under-volt to frequency. These changes aree not reflective in all monitoring hardware.

...
Here's an example, of LLC lvl 1 (lowest it can go) WITH a 0.100 under-volt in BIOS which does not get displayed at the minimum value which would be the full load v-droop.
Through a lot of playing with my 13700K, I have defined 1.350v to be the stock v-core for my chip. So in reality, 30K is probably a little low at 1.314v. And as suspected and demonstrated, the lower the v-core, the lower the frequency.
...

This one is manually 1.31500v bios
Under-Volt Protection ENGAGED!
lol. Stupid thing is running base frequency in the background.
...

Very helpful. That last one is similar to what I'm seeing, where you were around 150 W max and 13-14k Cinebench.

@LightCC42 you should have went with the locked version of that cpu.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html
Processor Base Power: 65W
Maximum Turbo Power: 219W

Board with better VRM's that won't break the bank.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...ii-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-b760-p-ddr4-ii

PRB B760-P DDR4 II

PRO series motherboards tuned for better performance by 12 Duet Rail Power System, DDR4 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen4 PCIe, Extended Heatsink, M.2 Shield Frozr, 2.5G LAN, Front Type-C

www.msi.com

Yeah, I saw that looking back at the CPUs. It seems 13700/13700f show the 219W turbo power on the specs at NewEgg, at least, but the 13700K/KF do NOT show the default turbo power max (of 253W), unless I'm looking in the wrong place, so I was just seeing 125W.

I guess those power ratings are the difference between 24k and 30k on Cinebench then.

I was partly subscribing to the theory that I'd be able to underclock/undervolt better on the K/KF as likely those bins are better than the 13700/13700F so Intel can have happy overclock customers for various reasons. That board looks good for the price. I was looking at some 690 boards that are in the 125-150 range as well, with mini-heatpipe style cooling and fans as well on the VRMs.

Nah, just trying to help.

He just needs a little better cooler and probably be just fine.

When I have Asus's performance enhancement enabled, the board shuts off in the middle of the benchmark cause the v-core keeps raising. Once it hits over 1.40v, it's no longer a controlled experience.

I don't know if Gigabyte has a similar feature on their boards, but if it does, I'd shut that right off first go.

Definitely need better VRM cooling ($10 sticky passive heatsinks?) or better board for anything longer than 1-2 minutes sustained, and then after that, better cooling. I think I've tried all the options that do top-level management in the Gigabyte bios.

They have a "Max Turbo" option that is greyed out, and labeled for 360mm cooler. I'm running on "Optimized". They have an option below that intended for a stock cooler, which probably fits closest to mine. I tried that early on, but with the new knowledge and apps I have running I need to revisit it. It just says it is less aggressive somehow, but it turns off many of the bios options. There is one lower step down from that which switches off all the ecores.

I did experiment with 6 pcores and 4 ecores enabled, 133W p1 and 175W p2 - with about 80 mV underclock. It was just barely hitting 100 oC on a 1-pass Cinebench (never hits P1) and turning 18.6k benchmark...

 

[Vario]

Yeah, looks like VRMs are severely underpowered, and my cooler significantly underpowered as well.

I looked at reviews before buying, but I ended up with a different board than I was originally looking at. But I think they were both 660/760s, as I was trying to gauge value for price. I thought the only thing I was losing was the ability to overclock directly - I just wanted to run stock with 3200 DDR4. The reviews I looked at didn't really cover this part of the engineering problem - anything about undervolting and 12/13/14 series Intel's being such power hogs until after trying to get everything working. Sure I saw info about people using 240/360 coolers, but it looked like that was all typical overclocking stuff, I never imagined you'd need a $100 cooler just to run stock.

I guess that's why the 13700/13700f are 24k in Cinebench instead of 30k - they are using the stock Intel cooler, that should be in the same ballpark as mine. They have a 200W version of mine that I believe just has a second fan on the other side...

Thanks for the input - I haven't built a PC in ~8 years, and a lot longer than that for an Intel, so I've been out of the know... I thought about using this motherboard with a low-end processor like 13400 or even 12400 to convert an old PC into a secondary desktop for when friends are over, gaming, etc., but at this point I'm not sure the VRMs can even handle those stock... that said most games don't push the CPU like Cinebench does.

Now the question is - what's the best case scenario for this board with this CPU? Salvagable or just start over with 690/790? Add a second fan on the cooler and heatsinks to the VRMs?


So even with undervolting to get 30k on Cinebench you are churning out 253W continuous? That info didn't come through even in the research I've been doing since discovering undervolting, etc. It looked like a lot of people were doing -80 to -100 mV just fine, at least in mid or upper 20's. I'd be really happy to just get 24k at this point... Looks like I'll need a new board and updated cooler though.

I also know that typical usage doesn't get anywhere close to Cinebench, even with heavy gaming, so I'm okay clipping it a bit and running at lower power. I just figured 180W or so should do after strating to look into this. Sounds more like you need 200-225W minimum, if not 250W?

HW monitoring programs usually put me around 250W with my undervolted 12900KS. I use a NHD15S and see load temps around 70C. I'd be pulling 375W if I didn't undervolt and it would sit at 110C.

My motherboard is a bit of a beast though. 19 power phase.

@LightCC42 you should have went with the locked version of that cpu.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html
Processor Base Power: 65W
Maximum Turbo Power: 219W

Board with better VRM's that won't break the bank.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...ii-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-b760-p-ddr4-ii

PRB B760-P DDR4 II

PRO series motherboards tuned for better performance by 12 Duet Rail Power System, DDR4 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen4 PCIe, Extended Heatsink, M.2 Shield Frozr, 2.5G LAN, Front Type-C

www.msi.com

Theres no problem with unlocked, the user just has to set it up right to use less power by limiting some combination of cores, clocks, and/or voltages.