FiiO K9 Pro ESS Desktop DAC & Amplifier

[VSG]

FiiO updated its flagship desktop DAC/amplifier with dual ESS Sabre ES9038PRO DACs, and the new K9 Pro ESS has some more quality-of-life improvements sweetening the deal. This is an excellent set with features including powerful, clean wired performance, extensive I/O support, and a mobile app with further customization options!

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[zlobby]

Everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

 

[VSG]

Everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

Eh?

 

[Fierce Guppy]

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

 

[VSG]

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

You mean like a Soundcard? Maybe something here would be helpful: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/?category=&manufacturer=Creative

 

[zlobby]

Eh?

A poorly worded joke on the impact of the fire in their factory.

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

For a mic input you'd actually need an ADC. That's why @VSG recommended you a soundcard.

 

[djisas]

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

Something like a Scarlett https://focusrite.com/en/scarlett

 

[MarsM4N]

Something like a Scarlett https://focusrite.com/en/scarlett

Dang, I didn't know there are USB DAC's Interface Headphone Amp's with mic inputs out there. Looks like there are quite some around:

So do they work like a soundcard? Can you regulate your voice from the mic on your headphones, push to talk keybinds & no reverb like you would get if you use a DAC & connect a mic to the back of your PC?

 

[kha]

@VSG Is this as good as RME ADI-2 DAC FS ? The price isn't much higher and if you find a good offer the price is almost the same.

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

Check MAYFLOWER ARC mk2, you can find reviews online.

 

[VSG]

@VSG Is this as good as RME ADI-2 DAC FS ? The price isn't much higher and if you find a good offer the price is almost the same.

No experience with the RME DAC, but remember this is a combo DAC and amplifier too and the RME offering appears to be a fantastic DAC only.

 

[Jokii]

Jeez, $850 for that is good value now? Audiophiles...

Dang, I didn't know there are USB DAC's Interface Headphone Amp's with mic inputs out there. Looks like there are quite some around:

So do they work like a soundcard? Can you regulate your voice from the mic on your headphones, push to talk keybinds & no reverb like you would get if you use a DAC & connect a mic to the back of your PC?

I get a headache reading posts about audio gear sometimes... Those labels (DAC/amp/soundcard/interface/...) are mostly just marketing terms and don't tell you clearly what a product can do, or if it's is good for your purpose. Ignore the market segmentation talk and just look at the specs. Decide what you need in terms of inputs/outputs and work from there. And don't expect something to sound better just because it costs hundreds of dollars. Apple's USB soundcard (some call it "dongle", others call it "DAC"...) performs great in most cases and it costs $9 (nine dollars!). Your motherboard's onboard audio maybe does too...
Anyway, most "interfaces" don't have a 3.5mm mic input, which is what you're probably using (but some interfaces do!).

No experience with the RME DAC, but remember this is a combo DAC and amplifier too and the RME offering appears to be a fantastic DAC only.

Just to clarify: the Fiio has a headphone amp and the RME has a headphone amp too. Neither of them have a speaker amp, however.
The difference is that the Fiio also has a line input, whereas the RME doesn't and maybe that's what you meant by it "being an amplifier". I guess I'm continuing my rant about these labels not being very informative.

 

[zlobby]

Jeez, $850 for that is good value now? Audiophiles...


I get a headache reading posts about audio gear sometimes... Those labels (DAC/amp/soundcard/interface/...) are mostly just marketing terms and don't tell you clearly what a product can do, or if it's is good for your purpose. Ignore the market segmentation talk and just look at the specs. Decide what you need in terms of inputs/outputs and work from there. And don't expect something to sound better just because it costs hundreds of dollars. Apple's USB soundcard (some call it "dongle", others call it "DAC"...) performs great in most cases and it costs $9 (nine dollars!). Your motherboard's onboard audio maybe does too...
Anyway, most "interfaces" don't have a 3.5mm mic input, which is what you're probably using (but some interfaces do!).


Just to clarify: the Fiio has a headphone amp and the RME has a headphone amp too. Neither of them have a speaker amp, however.
The difference is that the Fiio also has a line input, whereas the RME doesn't and maybe that's what you meant by it "being an amplifier". I guess I'm continuing my rant about these labels not being very informative.

Raising eyebrows on your statement about the $9 Apple dongle sounding 'great'. Great is not quantifiable by any means and it costs $9 for a reason. Noise, harmonics, dynamic range, etc. are, however. That is why other solutions cost more.

 

[Jokii]

Raising eyebrows on your statement about the $9 Apple dongle sounding 'great'. Great is not quantifiable by any means and it costs $9 for a reason. Noise, harmonics, dynamic range, etc. are, however. That is why other solutions cost more.

Here are some objective measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/

I think 113dB of SNR is pretty damn good for music playback. So is 99dB of SINAD. And so is the low output impedance for headphones.
So, yes, I think it's going to sound great in most cases. Not in all cases, because if you have demanding headphones that need a lot of power, it's obviously too weak, for example. But regular 32 Ohm headphones are going to sound just fine. Same if you're using it as a line out into a speaker amp... the amp is likely to be the bottleneck in terms of noise.

The Apple dongle is cheap, because it's mass produced and because it's frankly kinda fragile and also limited in functionality (it does have a mic input, though). But I don't think the price says anything about how well it sounds, compared to the expensive stuff.


There's a point in audio where something performs well enough that it's audibly transparent, which means that even if you get gear which is objectively better in measurements, it won't result in an audible improvement. 150dB SNR is objectively better than 140dB SNR, for example, but does it matter in practice, for human ears listening to music? Nope, it sounds the same, because we can't hear the noise in either case.
Where exactly is this cutoff for "good enough" is hard to say, also because it depends on several factors. That's why I don't make absolute statements and use some disclaimers. But I encourage people to explore this before wasting money on things that don't matter.

 

[progste]

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

if it's just for gaming there is this one https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-1

 

[djisas]

Creative also has a full fledged external sound card, and a few dac for gaming...

 

[Beertintedgoggles]

Here are some objective measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/

I think 113dB of SNR is pretty damn good for music playback. So is 99dB of SINAD. And so is the low output impedance for headphones.
So, yes, I think it's going to sound great in most cases. Not in all cases, because if you have demanding headphones that need a lot of power, it's obviously too weak, for example. But regular 32 Ohm headphones are going to sound just fine. Same if you're using it as a line out into a speaker amp... the amp is likely to be the bottleneck in terms of noise.

The Apple dongle is cheap, because it's mass produced and because it's frankly kinda fragile and also limited in functionality (it does have a mic input, though). But I don't think the price says anything about how well it sounds, compared to the expensive stuff.


There's a point in audio where something performs well enough that it's audibly transparent, which means that even if you get gear which is objectively better in measurements, it won't result in an audible improvement. 150dB SNR is objectively better than 140dB SNR, for example, but does it matter in practice, for human ears listening to music? Nope, it sounds the same, because we can't hear the noise in either case.
Where exactly is this cutoff for "good enough" is hard to say, also because it depends on several factors. That's why I don't make absolute statements and use some disclaimers. But I encourage people to explore this before wasting money on things that don't matter.

I really like using that site and have seen that exact review of the Apple dongle. For the price, very good results. I also agree quite a bit about where does one draw the line at "good enough". It seems a very subjective quality that will vary from person to person, sometimes greatly. I mentioned in the comments of the K5 Pro review that I've recently purchased the FiiO New K3 and paired it with the Sony MDR-7506 and I absolutely love the results. While I'm still tempted by the measurements / performance of the Topping DX3 Pro+, I simply can't justify spending any more on the setup. Maybe I would hear some difference but again, I'm pretty damn happy where I'm at and don't want to free-fall down the rabbit hole.

if it's just for gaming there is this one https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-1

I was going to mention that same Schiit (Hel).

 

[djisas]

I had at one point a fiio E10K and it had inferior quality to that of my creative sound card, listening from the soundcard, was more satisfying, so i sold the dac...

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

I had at one point a fiio E10K and it had inferior quality to that of my creative sound card, listening from the soundcard, was more satisfying, so i sold the dac...

The thing is this stuff is all over the map. I own more than a few DACs, AMPs, DAC/AMP units, USB audio interfaces and blah blah. Some of it is subjective, some of it is what you are listening to as well. A good example is to move over to headphones. There are some headphones that are tuned to various types of music, or say movies, or say gaming. Expect accordingly. I gave up on creative for their software a while back.

I'd like to read a review of a DAC that supports headsets, rather than just headphones. A mic input would be good.

There's an issue with this really. Most "gaming headsets" now connect via USB, wireless, or come with a dedicated DAC (it's a soundcard) module. Which means they will never actually need one. Then you have an issue where most people who care enough to spend the money on a DAC are going to use headphones so they aren't interested in a USB soundcard. Most of the DACs with mic inputs are professional grade audio interfaces that cost a lot and you don't need.

There are exceptions, schitt and creative are dropped here but let me add two more.

https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gaming/products/gsx-1000-gaming-amplifier-1000237

Support for GSX 300 (Art. no.: 1000201)

The gamer seeking enhanced audio performance instead of relying on their PC on-board sound will find excellent value in the GSX 300 external sound card.

www.eposaudio.com

Epos was sennheiser

if it's just for gaming there is this one https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-1

I have this and it's fun.

 

[djisas]

The thing is this stuff is all over the map. I own more than a few DACs, AMPs, DAC/AMP units, USB audio interfaces and blah blah. Some of it is subjective, some of it is what you are listening to as well. A good example is to move over to headphones. There are some headphones that are tuned to various types of music, or say movies, or say gaming. Expect accordingly. I gave up on creative for their software a while back.

There's an issue with this really. Most "gaming headsets" now connect via USB, wireless, or come with a dedicated DAC (it's a soundcard) module. Which means they will never actually need one. Then you have an issue where most people who care enough to spend the money on a DAC are going to use headphones so they aren't interested in a USB soundcard. Most of the DACs with mic inputs are professional grade audio interfaces that cost a lot and you don't need.

There are exceptions, schitt and creative are dropped here but let me add two more.

https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gaming/products/gsx-1000-gaming-amplifier-1000237

Support for GSX 300 (Art. no.: 1000201)

The gamer seeking enhanced audio performance instead of relying on their PC on-board sound will find excellent value in the GSX 300 external sound card.

www.eposaudio.com

Epos was sennheiser


I have this and it's fun.

Schitt is very interesting, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get things shipped to EU...
Regarding a talk about Apple usb DAC\dongle, I currently use a Samsung one, it sounds pretty good but it lacks power to drive normal IEMS, usualy to get any decent volume out of it requires maxing the output, so I looked into alternatives and a creative one popped out, it's the SXFI AMP and I'm curious to try it out at 50€...

Creative SXFI AMP

SXFI™ AMP is a finger-sized portable headphone amplifier and DAC with holographic audio that allows you to hear your auditory space expand in your headphones as if you were in a high-end multi-speaker system studio or theater.

en.creative.com

 

[progste]

Schitt is very interesting, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get things shipped to EU...
Regarding a talk about Apple usb DAC\dongle, I currently use a Samsung one, it sounds pretty good but it lacks power to drive normal IEMS, usualy to get any decent volume out of it requires maxing the output, so I looked into alternatives and a creative one popped out, it's the SXFI AMP and I'm curious to try it out at 50€...

Creative SXFI AMP

SXFI™ AMP is a finger-sized portable headphone amplifier and DAC with holographic audio that allows you to hear your auditory space expand in your headphones as if you were in a high-end multi-speaker system studio or theater.

en.creative.com

I bought some schiit gear (from Italy).
once I got the modi multibit from their site and aside from shipping cost+taxes it all went fine.
The easier option is definitely buying used from the EU like on ebay and similar sites, I got the asgard 3 that way. (there are also some EU retailers but they don't get many pieces)

So yeah, it's possible to buy them from the EU but it's more expensive and a bit more hassle, you can probably find easier alternatives from brands like topping and other Chinese brands.

 

[djisas]

I bought some schiit gear (from Italy).
once I got the modi multibit from their site and aside from shipping cost+taxes it all went fine.
The easier option is definitely buying used from the EU like on ebay and similar sites, I got the asgard 3 that way. (there are also some EU retailers but they don't get many pieces)

So yeah, it's possible to buy them from the EU but it's more expensive and a bit more hassle, you can probably find easier alternatives from brands like topping and other Chinese brands.

That's the problem , the extra taxes and stuff...
Indeed many alternatives, more or less chinese and expensive...
Like ifi...
One good place to visit is https://www.whathifi.com/ or https://www.headfonia.com/

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

Schitt is very interesting, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get things shipped to EU...
Regarding a talk about Apple usb DAC\dongle, I currently use a Samsung one, it sounds pretty good but it lacks power to drive normal IEMS, usualy to get any decent volume out of it requires maxing the output, so I looked into alternatives and a creative one popped out, it's the SXFI AMP and I'm curious to try it out at 50€...

Creative SXFI AMP

SXFI™ AMP is a finger-sized portable headphone amplifier and DAC with holographic audio that allows you to hear your auditory space expand in your headphones as if you were in a high-end multi-speaker system studio or theater.

en.creative.com

Sennheiser/EPOS makes a good one as well as they make some of the better gaming headsets that don't connect directly by standard USB and instead us 3.5.

Another good idea is to look into USB-C ones which are made for smartphones and support both mic and headphones over a single 3.5, and then adapter your dual headphone connectors to a single.

 

[erocker]

Schitt is very interesting, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get things shipped to EU...
Regarding a talk about Apple usb DAC\dongle, I currently use a Samsung one, it sounds pretty good but it lacks power to drive normal IEMS, usualy to get any decent volume out of it requires maxing the output, so I looked into alternatives and a creative one popped out, it's the SXFI AMP and I'm curious to try it out at 50€...

Creative SXFI AMP

SXFI™ AMP is a finger-sized portable headphone amplifier and DAC with holographic audio that allows you to hear your auditory space expand in your headphones as if you were in a high-end multi-speaker system studio or theater.

en.creative.com

Schiit ships to UK, Europe, Asia and Australia all the time. They even have a power plug selection on the item's respective pages. I'm using a Schiit Modius DAC with a SMSL sp200 amp and I love it... Especially the balanced inputs/outputs on the Modius for the price.

 

[djisas]

Schiit ships to UK, Europe, Asia and Australia all the time. They even have a power plug selection on the item's respective pages. I'm using a Schiit Modius DAC with a SMSL sp200 amp and I love it... Especially the balanced inputs/outputs on the Modius for the price.

What would worry me is paying massive customs fee...

 

[VSG]

Was bored tonight and had another reason to dig out my FLIR camera too, so I decided to see exactly how warm the K9 Pro ESS gets and whether those vents on the side help:

So yeah, the internals get warm enough to where the updated enclosure helps.