A multi-boot adventure - Windows 10 x64 Enterprise IoT LTSC 21H2

[LabRat 891]

+

With encouragement from @lexluthermiester,
I feel it is finally time for me to try Windows 10 x64 IoT Enterprise LTSC.

Note: I've created this OP prior to starting the install.

This thread is intended to both inform others about Windows (10) Enterprise IoT LTSC, and to share my experiences with it.

But, why?

I dual-booted Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 and POSReady 7 on a Pentium II/III-tier retro build, and was impressed as all get out. I'm 'sold' on the idea of el strippo Windows.

What does Windows Embedded have to do with Windows IoT?

Microsoft rebranded "Windows Embedded" to "Windows IoT" starting with the release of embedded editions of Windows 10

->

Okay... but isn't IoT for like automation, SBCs, sensors, and stuff?

Yes/No.
Windows IoT Core (specifically) is. Windows IoT Enterprise is fully-functional Windows 10 Enterprise, stripped down.

What is Windows IoT Enterprise?
Windows IoT Enterprise is a full version of Windows Enterprise that delivers enterprise manageability and security to IoT solutions. Windows IoT Enterprise shares all the benefits of the worldwide Windows ecosystem. It is a binary equivalent to Windows Enterprise, so you can use the same familiar development and management tools as client PCs and laptops

Okay... But still, Why?

Mainstream support until January 12, 2027 and extended support until January 13, 2032.
Also, no system-breaking / user-jarring 'feature updates'.

Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC?
Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC is designed for specialty devices and use cases where functionality and features remain constant for the life of the device. Microsoft supports each Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC release for 10 years, and that features and functionality don't change over the course of that 10-year lifecycle.

Oh. So, your one of those, that hates progress.

Sure...



I'll be installing W10Ent IoT LTSC onto my 1TB Sabrent Rocket 4.0 situated in my CPU-connected Gen4x4 M.2 slot.

My (current C: drive) 2TB Solidigm P41 Plus will stay put, in my X570-connected Gen4x4 M.2 Slot.

The 2 other NVMe drives (2nd 2TB P41+ and 1TB Rocket Q4), are X570-connected in Gen4x1 slots, using short-trace heatsink'd PCIe->M.2 M-key adapters.

Spoiler: Superfluous

First 'oops'. Forgot I had my pagefile set to that drive.

1st Step(s), Attempt #2:

 

[lexluthermiester]

Mainstream support until January 12, 2027 and extended support until January 13, 2032.
Also, no system-breaking / user-jarring 'feature updates'.

This begs a question: What about gaming, or is that a concern for you?

Note: I've created this OP prior to starting the install.

Fair enough. Looking forward to seeing your experiences once installed!

 

[LabRat 891]

Everything went smoother than expected!

Other than, me getting impatient w/ Rufus BadBlock-scanning my old-arse 64GB USB2.0 flash drive.
I yanked the flash drive, went and grabbed one of my '16GB' Optane M10s and a Realtek-based USB-NVMe adapter, instead.
Took 15-20mins to full format, but Rufus wrote the image lightning fast, and Windows Installed, nearly as quickly. (I Optane)
No problems using my USB 3.2 Type-C port throughout all of this. Win setup went slick and I was able to install right off the USB-connected Optane drive -Even, when it was a terrible idea; like installing chipset drivers.

Apologies for cam-shots where I was fully-capable of using Snipping Tool (as I normally do). I glitched out

This begs a question: What about gaming, or is that a concern for you?

So far,
Gaming on W10 Ent IoT LTSC Just Works.
0 (additional*) complications vs. my Win10 Pro and Win 10 Ent LTSB experiences.

*I even managed to break and fix Steam, the exact same way I always do on a reinstall:
-Copy Steam folder to new install directory, sans "steamapps"
-Install Steam over the copied files
-Run Steam, Log in (Picks up most of my games I had installed, and in their correct locations)
-Play already installed game (sync isn't working)
-Close Steam, delete "userdata" from Steam directory
-Relaunch Steam (didn't even have to re-login), play games (sync is working)

So far I've played:
-Doom Eternal
-Wobbly Life
-Red Faction Guerilla Re-marsterd
-Wreckfest

I tried to grab screenshots of all, but only Doom Eternal and Wobbly Life cooperated (using Windows' PrintScreen)

Fair enough. Looking forward to seeing your experiences once installed!

While my Win 10 Pro install is legitimately 'dirty', this Install is noticeably more 'snappy' and responsive.
One could easily toss that up to a proper-clean install, or even the fact my OS is now on a DRAMcache-equipped Gen4x4 NVME (1TB Sabrent Rocket 4.0) vs. my DRAMless QLC Gen4x4 NVMe (2TB P41 Plus).

Thankfully ( ), I did dual-boot.
I can go back to compare; and migrate user files, etc. at my own pace.
Yes, I did verify that my old install is still functional.

So far, it is seeming like all of the FUD about Ent IoT LTSC, is more-applicable to Core IoT LTSC.
'Was expecting to have to work around/fix something but, no... It's just working great.

I'm open to testing and comparing, whatever is suggested (within my means).



Decided to break some rules.
'Set the other install's "C:" drive letter to B: for each install, and drive letter matched the rest.

 

[Shrek]

Where to purchase a license for Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (21H2)?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Where to purchase a license for Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (21H2)?

That is the $64 question... An LTSC license might be acceptable.

 

[arnold_al_qadr]

been using LTSC since I know about it, daily use, office, browsing, movies, gaming, no fuss, no drama, no bloatware, stability, best windows..

 

[lexluthermiester]

Sorry for the delays in following up.
It was a nice day today after raining for over a week. -did more than touch grass, I mowed it.


Gamers-outlet.net offers them, and the keysite appears to have a pretty decent reputation

IoT Core LTSC, is supposedly convert-able to IoT Enterprise LTSC. However, I'm not sure how legit that is.
Though, considering github is owned by Msft,
I'm unsure if Msft makes unofficial exceptions for "non-commercial Research-use".

If you want to be 110% 'legit', Advantech carries the licenses.
They are an authorized partner. Though, I'm not sure if they'd sell them a la carte.
According to both 1st party and 3rd party sources, Win10IoT activates/licenses a little differently than 'normal windows'.
Advantech has an entire .pdf about activating WinIoT and how different licenses apply
View attachment 318133

View attachment 318131


some (additonal) updates:
'Sleep' is working 100% correctly; it was not in/on my Win 10 Pro install.
I'd figured it was my non-standard GPU(s)/drivers but, no. I'm on the same RdN.ID/AmernimeZone driver
View attachment 318130
Some other system driver or service is interfering with sleep on my 10 Pro install. (Maybe, VPN client(s)?)

Holy crap! You really have deep-dived into this! I've discovered the stance microsoft takes is more relaxed than most think. For end users who want a "different" experience than the standard consumer/prosumer install provides, they are not especially strict about licensing as long as the spirit of the law is observed.

In other words, if you're going to use an Enterprise product for personal use, they really only want you to have purchased a legit copy, IE, a license key. If you've bought it, even if through abnormal channels, then chances are good that they have been paid for that license originally and they're happy, even if you're not using the product for it's original intended purpose.

 

[silentbogo]

In other words, if you're going to use an Enterprise product for personal use, they really only want you to have purchased a legit copy

I don't think MS tracks Enterprise LTSC licenses either, since those fell under their massive freebie program back in a day(when they re-attempted to get into portable market).

This begs a question: What about gaming, or is that a concern for you?

Pretty sure it's fine or even better. Heck, even the infamous chinese Subor Z, and many similar gaming devices ran Enterprise LTSC out of the box.

 

[LabRat 891]

been using LTSC since I know about it, daily use, office, browsing, movies, gaming, no fuss, no drama, no bloatware, stability, best windows..

IoT Enterprise LTSC? Enterprise LTSC has different licensing and a shorter support life cycle v. IoT(embedded)
2027

2032

other differences:
("SaC" is 'normal' non-LTSC)

Holy crap! You really have deep-dived into this!

Thank you! I've been on/off researching IoT LTSC for awhile.
It was nice to put to paper what I'd gathered, so to speak.
Especially since there's been a lot of misconceptions floating around, particularly about IoT. Even searching google+brave, I couldn't find much user-perspective info (when discussing-rebutting about IoT LTSC).
.

I've discovered the stance microsoft takes is more relaxed than most think. For end users who want a "different" experience than the standard consumer/prosumer install provides, they are not especially strict about licensing as long as the spirit of the law is observed.

In other words, if you're going to use an Enterprise product for personal use, they really only want you to have purchased a legit copy, IE, a license key. If you've bought it, even if through abnormal channels, then chances are good that they have been paid for that license originally and they're happy, even if you're not using the product for it's original intended purpose.

Good to know. 'Reinforces what I'd been picking up on while researching.

I don't think MS tracks Enterprise LTSC licenses either, since those fell under their massive freebie program back in a day(when they re-attempted to get into portable market).

Pretty sure it's fine or even better. Heck, even the infamous chinese Subor Z, and many similar gaming devices ran Enterprise LTSC out of the box.

Windows IoT (Windows Embedded) LTSC is licensed differently but, somewhat overlappingly w/ LTSC; however, that makes a lot of sense.

I'm still not sure this is anything more than a (voluntary) pricing structure... I can see it making sense for barebones-suppliers/SIs and companies buying many-qty.

 

[silentbogo]

IoT Enterprise LTSC? Enterprise LTSC has different licensing and a shorter support life cycle v. IoT(embedded)

It's just naming. Realistically IoT Enterprise LTSC has very little to do with IoT or embedded devices. Just as normal Enterprise LTSC - just a stripped down win10 with stable update branch.
Licensing might be different, but all variants were given away en-masse to chinese manufacturers back at launch and a couple of years past launch, just to get as much coverage as possible, across all device segments (tabletops, tablets, tablet-lookalikes, mini-PCs, nettops and netbooks, etc). All in the name of competing with google and transitioning to OS-as-a-Service model(which ultimately failed).

 

[LabRat 891]

It's just naming. Realistically IoT Enterprise LTSC has very little to do with IoT or embedded devices. Just as normal Enterprise LTSC - just a stripped down win10 with stable update branch.

According to msft. IoT Enterprise is as you put it.

What is Windows IoT Enterprise?
Windows IoT Enterprise is a full version of Windows Enterprise that delivers enterprise manageability and security to IoT solutions. Windows IoT Enterprise shares all the benefits of the worldwide Windows ecosystem. It is a binary equivalent to Windows Enterprise, so you can use the same familiar development and management tools as client PCs and laptops

Regardless, the support lifecycle diff. is relevant:

10 IoT Ent. LTSC is more stripped down (arguably, superficially) than Win10Ent non-IoT and 10 IoT Ent. Sac
I'm not 100% sure if 10 Ent. LTSC (non-IoT) also has those same subtractions. The verbage on Avnet's page, implies it tho.

Avnet Licence Support for Windows 10​

note: I can confirm in IoT LTSC 2021 that Edge is included.

Lastly, according to softrader.eu

Windows IoT Enterprise (unlike Windows Enterprise) includes Windows Defender.

Oh my, so many differences! /s

It's just naming.

Pretty much, yes.
Other than Support Cycle Life, to a prosumer-enthusiast the differences are insignificant.

 

[Shrek]

I am told

IoT 2021 is activated by the regular version of LTSC 2021

anyone know if this is true as I can get licences for the regular version

 

[LabRat 891]

I am told

IoT 2021 is activated by the regular version of LTSC 2021

anyone know if this is true as I can get licences for the regular version

What's the going-rate today on TPU's favorite keysites for a 10 Ent. LTSC '21 key?
If it's <$10, I'd be willing to find out for certain.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

What's the going-rate today on TPU's favorite keysites for a 10 Ent. LTSC '21 key?
If it's <$10, I'd be willing to find out for certain.

$12.81 at the moment.

 

[LabRat 891]

$12.81 at the moment.

Linky? I trust (from experience) TPU's favored sites.

I found a few others around same price, and one lower.

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 20PC

You will receive 1x Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 key that can activate 20PCs.Lifetime activation.Friendly and professional support to help with smooth installation.Fast and convenient product delivery via email.7 Days one-to-one replacement warranty.100% Authentic licenses.MAKE SURE YOU

bitnetkeys.com

Though, the lacking reputation on trustpilot* is making me think to avoid (w/o using a pre-paid card)

BitnetKeys - Bitnet Technologies LTD is rated "Excellent" with 4.7 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with BitnetKeys - Bitnet Technologies LTD's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 86 customers have already said.

www.trustpilot.com

*note: I'm not terribly trusting of 'reputation' sites either but, if the reviews look human-written by customers, I'm more confident.
bitnetkeys.com's trust pilot reviews look like bot-written and/or staff/owner-written; not a good sign IMO.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Linky? I trust (from experience) TPU's favored sites.

I found a few others around same price, and one lower.

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 20PC

You will receive 1x Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 key that can activate 20PCs.Lifetime activation.Friendly and professional support to help with smooth installation.Fast and convenient product delivery via email.7 Days one-to-one replacement warranty.100% Authentic licenses.MAKE SURE YOU

bitnetkeys.com

Though, the lacking reputation on trustpilot* is making me think to avoid (w/o using a pre-paid card)

BitnetKeys - Bitnet Technologies LTD is rated "Excellent" with 4.7 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with BitnetKeys - Bitnet Technologies LTD's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 86 customers have already said.

www.trustpilot.com

*note: I'm not terribly trusting of 'reputation' sites either but, if the reviews look human-written by customers, I'm more confident.
bitnetkeys.com's trust pilot reviews look like bot-written and/or staff/owner-written; not a good sign IMO.

I used the last post on the site, and you'll need to enter the coupon code to take 50% off. (Last link before the picture)

GoDeal24 Happy Halloween Sale: Genuine Software at Spooky Low Prices

Trick or treat your friends with genuine software—upgrade their old Windows installations to the latest Windows 11, and rid them of annual 365 subscription payments, with lifetime-valid Office 2021 Professional Plus, the most powerful productivity suite. Get Genuine Windows 11 Pro at just $12.69...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[LabRat 891]

I used the last post on the site, and you'll need to enter the coupon code to take 50% off. (Last link before the picture)

GoDeal24 Happy Halloween Sale: Genuine Software at Spooky Low Prices

Trick or treat your friends with genuine software—upgrade their old Windows installations to the latest Windows 11, and rid them of annual 365 subscription payments, with lifetime-valid Office 2021 Professional Plus, the most powerful productivity suite. Get Genuine Windows 11 Pro at just $12.69...

www.techpowerup.com

Thanks! I'll consider picking that up later today/tomorrow.
Worst-case scenario, I have a 4600G+A320 build on Windows 7 that could use the license.
If 10 IoT Ent. LTSC does *not* activate w/ the non-IoT key, it won't have generated an associated 'HW ID"; I'll still be able to use the License.

Update: Win10 (non-IoT) Enterprise 2021 LTSC License purchased

I'll attempt to use the non-IoT license key at (re)install/setup.
If that doesn't 'take', I'll install w/o a key (like I did originally)
and then attempt using the non-IoT key on IoT via SLMGR / SLUI.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I am told

IoT 2021 is activated by the regular version of LTSC 2021

anyone know if this is true as I can get licences for the regular version

AFAIK, the activation process is the same.

 

[LabRat 891]

AFAIK, the activation process is the same.

It is, -ish.
In fact, 'successfully' using a non-IoT 10 Ent. LTSC key,
'converts' (and activates) one's Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 202 install,
to non-IoT Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021.

The license-integration and activation processes *are* the same but, the outcome(s) are not
as-desired / purported.

That is the $64 question... An LTSC license might be acceptable.

I am told

IoT 2021 is activated by the regular version of LTSC 2021

anyone know if this is true as I can get licences for the regular version

I'm willing to accept I've missed an "Official" (but obscure) method to do so but, from both research and experimentation:
This is false.

Using "Official" means, (Note: I did not try the VAMT, however I'd expect similar conversion or error.)
one cannot activate Win 10 IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 with a Win 10 Ent. non-IoT LTSC 2021 key.
You will (instead) successfully convert-to and activate Win 10 Ent. LTSC 2021(non-IoT).


I tried 2 different MSDN-source .ISOs
One, from Archive.org.
The other, as-linked from softcoputers.org's Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 product listing.

Both images, will install Non-IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 if supplied with my non-IoT key @ initial setup.

Both images, will convert "I don't have a key" IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 Install(s)
to Non-IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 when input the non-IoT key for activation

Note: using "change product key"/slui.exe instead of slmgr may simply refuse the key.

Summary:
(Successfully) Integrating a Windows 10 Enterprise non-IoT LTSC 2021 key
into a Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install,
will net you Windows 10 Enterprise non-IoT LTSC 2021 licensed and activated.

Losing you the extended support of Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021

(Now, to clear up the source of the confusion)

Softcomputers.org's product description is highly inaccurate.
Red Box: Demonstrably False (see: above).
Brown Underline: Bullocks.


Beyond the blatant typographical errors...

Poignantly, 22H2 is not (publicly-)available for 10 Ent. IoT LTSC 2021.
Note: There is conflicting/vague info from MSFT on the topic.

Attempting to run "Windows10Upgrade9252.exe" (the 22H2 update tool from MSFT) in an Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install, will return an error telling you to contact your Administrator. (sorry, I lost the screenshot)

The only image (that I could find) for LTSC 2021 22H2, is a custom image off Zyzoom (Arabic-only) Forums.
("Windows 10 22H2 Iot Ent LTSC 2021 (19045.1947)AIO(x86-x64) Multi Complete Update August 2022")
I do not recommend (non-self) modified Windows Installer images.
I installed it, regardless

There are more modifications to this image than were disclosed in the (translated) thread; and that is NOT a good sign..
It seems plausible to integrate 22H2 but, no official means are supplied.




TL;DR
through many-hours of experimentation (and NVMe writes)
I can say in confidence that:

No.
A non-IoT license will not activate an IoT install.

and

No.
Regardless of what MSFT discloses, there is no straightforward method of installing Feature Update 22H2 on a Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install.

"Unofficial" workaround:

Spoiler: The only Microsoft-condoned, -suggested, -referenced, and -hosted method(s) found

to Activate Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (while owning a non-IoT key)
are massgravel's and sysconf16's "Research (and development) Tools"

2. https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts/releases
3. https://github.com/sysconf16/ltsc-2021-activator

 

[Shrek]

Much much apprecaited; you have saved a lot of us a lot of trouble.

 

[LabRat 891]

Minor Update:
Through all of my re-installs, I did notice one consistent 'complication' that I don't recall having with Win 10 Pro and older LTSB/LTSC releases:

On one's 2nd login (after installation reboots), you'll lose USB connectivity, and even ACPI inputs (like power button and reset button) will be ignored. You either wait several minutes, or hard power cycle the machine.
-If you sit-wait long enough, you can tell Windows is installing/re-initializing drivers, and it eventually 'comes back'.
-Hard-rebooting will remedy the issue as well but, is an ill-advised procedure.

Note: I believe that if you've disabled/disconnected internet access, Windows will not DL and install drivers; which, seem to be the cause of the 'issue'.

TBQH, it's merely an inconvenience.

 

[sam_86314]

"Unofficial" workaround:

I'd been wanting to bring this up for a long time, but I wasn't sure if it was allowed.

I totally don't use it on all of my Windows systems (all of which are LTSC 2021).

 

[LabRat 891]

I'd been wanting to bring this up for a long time, but I wasn't sure if it was allowed.

I totally don't use it on all of my Windows systems (all of which are LTSC 2021).

'felt okay to mention it, since:
-it's hosted on a Microsoft Subsidiary's website, GitHub
-it's easily found using Microsoft's Search Engine, Bing.
-it's specifically mentioned in the top 3 resources of Microsoft's public-facing AI search tools, Bing Chat
-Massgravel's project (and forks) on github are specific with branding/associating "Research".

In other words, if you're going to use an Enterprise product for personal use, they really only want you to have purchased a legit copy

I don't think MS tracks Enterprise LTSC licenses either, since those fell under their massive freebie program back in a day(when they re-attempted to get into portable market).

+I bought a key, and encourage using only "official" images and means.

 

[Shrek]

Some people note that Windows 10 keeps running after the expiry date, but for me it is worse than that for if I reinstall Windows 10 there are no longer any updates offered and things will be far behind.

So this ability to move Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 to IoT is a big deal for me (given I can't purchase IoT).

 

[bobbybluz]

It is, -ish.
In fact, 'successfully' using a non-IoT 10 Ent. LTSC key,
'converts' (and activates) one's Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 202 install,
to non-IoT Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021.

The license-integration and activation processes *are* the same but, the outcome(s) are not
as-desired / purported.



I'm willing to accept I've missed an "Official" (but obscure) method to do so but, from both research and experimentation:
This is false.

Using "Official" means, (Note: I did not try the VAMT, however I'd expect similar conversion or error.)
one cannot activate Win 10 IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 with a Win 10 Ent. non-IoT LTSC 2021 key.
You will (instead) successfully convert-to and activate Win 10 Ent. LTSC 2021(non-IoT).


I tried 2 different MSDN-source .ISOs
One, from Archive.org.
The other, as-linked from softcoputers.org's Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 product listing.

Both images, will install Non-IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 if supplied with my non-IoT key @ initial setup.
View attachment 318366

Both images, will convert "I don't have a key" IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 Install(s)
to Non-IoT Ent. LTSC 2021 when input the non-IoT key for activation
View attachment 318368
Note: using "change product key"/slui.exe instead of slmgr may simply refuse the key.
View attachment 318369


Summary:
(Successfully) Integrating a Windows 10 Enterprise non-IoT LTSC 2021 key
into a Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install,
will net you Windows 10 Enterprise non-IoT LTSC 2021 licensed and activated.



(Now, to clear up the source of the confusion)

Softcomputers.org's product description is highly inaccurate.
Red Box: Demonstrably False (see: above).
Brown Underline: Bullocks.
View attachment 318370

Beyond the blatant typographical errors...

Poignantly, 22H2 is not (publicly-)available for 10 Ent. IoT LTSC 2021.
Note: There is conflicting/vague info from MSFT on the topic.
View attachment 318375View attachment 318376
Attempting to run "Windows10Upgrade9252.exe" (the 22H2 update tool from MSFT) in an Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install, will return an error telling you to contact your Administrator. (sorry, I lost the screenshot)

The only image (that I could find) for LTSC 2021 22H2, is a custom image off Zyzoom (Arabic-only) Forums.
("Windows 10 22H2 Iot Ent LTSC 2021 (19045.1947)AIO(x86-x64) Multi Complete Update August 2022")
I do not recommend (non-self) modified Windows Installer images.
I installed it, regardless
View attachment 318377
There are more modifications to this image than were disclosed in the (translated) thread; and that is NOT a good sign..
It seems plausible to integrate 22H2 but, no official means are supplied.




TL;DR
through many-hours of experimentation (and NVMe writes)
I can say in confidence that:

No.
A non-IoT license will not activate an IoT install.

and

No.
Regardless of what MSFT discloses, there is no straightforward method of installing Feature Update 22H2 on a Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 install.

"Unofficial" workaround:

Spoiler: The only Microsoft-condoned, -suggested, -referenced, and -hosted method(s) found

2. https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts/releases
3. https://github.com/sysconf16/ltsc-2021-activator

I've been using that for a few years now. It's been updated three times in the past few weeks. I haven't done an install with any of the versions released since last March.