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AC power line flicker with brand new build

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If it'll make you all feel better, I'll bring the PSU, CPU and motherboard over to a completely different house and put them together over there today.

That or a different circuit in your house... pardon if you already did that. Last year, I witnessed a circular saw failing on a long extension cord... I literally thought the brush(es) failed since I had another saw that worked. Put it on a shorter cord and it was fine.
 
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The system is not presently in a case, and is sitting on top of a nonmetallic shelf with some spare aluminum standoffs I had lying around. I don't think this could be a board grounding issue, but perhaps someone here can bring forth some enlightening information on the subject.

I may be talking out my ass, but could the fact that this system is not in a case as of yet be contributing to the issues?
 
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I may be talking out my ass, but could the fact that this system is not in a case as of yet be contributing to the issues?

Not likely but not impossible. People (present company included) do open tabletop builds for testing new builds all the time.
 
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I've seen lights flicker when the fridge turns on, so A its the computer or B its the house wiring. strap on a tin foil hat call it a day................The MATRIX HAS YOU!
 

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Id say breakers or issues beyond your power panel. I see it happen on treadmills even. Id suggest taking the rig to a friends home and plug it straight into a wall without any other equipment in said room.
 
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Only have a few minutes to type this...

I have spoken with 3 of my instructors (20-50yr. Master electricians, one a former inspector), and they have all expressed doubt at the suggestion of any sort of electrical or radio interference related to the issue here or any other power quality issue based on the information I have collected so far. Their general concensus is that the issue is most likely related to a faulty computer part, or possibly an open ground, which they generally agree has probably been ruled out at this point.
 
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Only have a few minutes to type this...

I have spoken with 3 of my instructors (20-50yr. Master electricians, one a former inspector), and they have all expressed doubt at the suggestion of any sort of electrical or radio interference related to the issue here or any other power quality issue based on the information I have collected so far. Their general concensus is that the issue is most likely related to a faulty computer part, or possibly an open ground, which they generally agree has probably been ruled out at this point.

Sounds like you've confirmed the existence of gravitational waves...

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
 
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You do have an open ground circuit. Your not looking at the right spot.

Your power supply is chassis grounded, and in a case its ground through chassis of case to other components. Your mother board
is not earth grounded. Go to your books and read what a earth ground does for electrical circuits. Safety, and gets rid of static charges,
low level voltages, and electrical noise signals.

Many run open pc systems with out any problems, including myself.
 

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the best way to check is take the rig to a friends and try it there.
 
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More news.

I had to connect my DVD drive back up to my PSU to eject a disk still in it, and noticed reduced intensity flickering of the same type I've been complaining about from the start. When I disconnect everything from the PSU, the flickering goes away. Re-connect my hard drive or any other load, and the flicker immediately returns. It's the power supply.

I thought the PSU could be safely ruled out as both the original unit and the tested factory replacement behaved exactly the same in every way. Now I am led to believe that the product design itself might well be flawed.

My old laptop power brick has always caused a similar flicker that was much slower (about 60 pulses per minute), and the brick itself emanates an audible 'tick' every time this happens. This phenomenon has always occurred in every house I have ever brought my laptop and charger to. The ticking was most noticeable when the battery was not fully charged, and gradually faded away into the background as it neared 100%.

I am seeing a parallel here.

I'll bring the PSU, hard drive, and DVD drive to the tech school tomorrow. I can get access to power the unit straight from the lab panel that is situated not even two feet away from the big 50kVA transformer that feeds it. If it still makes an incandescent lamp flicker under what will essentially be perfect supply conditions, then we will have our definitive answer.
 
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dorsetknob

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I have spoken with 3 of my instructors (20-50yr. Master electricians, one a former inspector), and they have all expressed doubt at the suggestion of any sort of electrical or radio interference related to the issue here or any other power quality issue based on the information I have collected so far. Their general concensus is that the issue is most likely related to a faulty computer part, or possibly an open ground, which they generally agree has probably been ruled out at this point.

And THIS AMOUNT OF LIVING EXPERIENCE WILL NOT HELP YOU WITH A HOME VISIT
you rather seek help from the web rather than 3 of your instructors

don't take it personaly BUT....................
 
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@dorsetknob:
dorsetknob said:
And THIS AMOUNT OF LIVING EXPERIENCE WILL NOT HELP YOU WITH A HOME VISIT
you rather seek help from the web rather than 3 of your instructors

don't take it personaly BUT....................

Don't take it personally, but I'll much sooner take the advice of three master electricians over that of the half of the internet that keeps insisting that it is inconceivable for a brand new computer to be the cause of a problem that has only appeared when said computer is running.

:F
 
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More news.

I had to connect my DVD drive back up to my PSU to eject a disk still in it, and noticed reduced intensity flickering of the same type I've been complaining about from the start. When I disconnect everything from the PSU, the flickering goes away. Re-connect my hard drive or any other load, and the flicker immediately returns. It's the power supply.

I thought the PSU could be safely ruled out as both the original unit and the tested factory replacement behaved exactly the same in every way. Now I am led to believe that the product design itself might well be flawed.

My old laptop power brick has always caused a similar flicker that was much slower (about 60 pulses per minute), and the brick itself emanates an audible 'tick' every time this happens. This phenomenon has always occurred in every house I have ever brought my laptop and charger to. The ticking was most noticeable when the battery was not fully charged, and gradually faded away into the background as it neared 100%.

I am seeing a parallel here.

I'll bring the PSU, hard drive, and DVD drive to the tech school tomorrow. I can get access to power the unit straight from the lab panel that is situated not even two feet away from the big 50kVA transformer that feeds it. If it still makes an incandescent lamp flicker under what will essentially be perfect supply conditions, then we will have our definitive answer.

ah, so the PSU is the prime suspect, eh? let us know how the test turned out ;)
 
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Excellent news.

I've spent a lot of time doing a lot of testing today. My results are as follows with a DVD drive and a WD 3.5"HDD as test loads:

At the tech school;

  • - Upon connecting the power supply to the panel receptacle immediately adjacent to the power transformer feeding it at the tech school, I could perceive no visible flickering in an incandescent light bulb in my field-wired testing rig plugged into the same receptacle.

    - When I moved to a location with approximately 40-50 feet of wiring [incl. appx 30-40 feet of ~#4Cu., and appx 10 feet of #12Cu.] between it and the transformer, I began to notice some faint flickering again with my test rig.

    - My home has approximately 180-210 feet of wiring from the electrical service room, and I have no trouble noticing the flickering much more readily.

This information supports my hypothesis that the power supply itself is the root cause of the issue.

When I discussed my findings with the fourth instructor in the school, we formulated a hypothesis that the intensity of the flickering generated by the power supply may be heavily influenced by the total length of wire between the power supply and the source equipment due to factors such as wire impedance, inductance, and possibly capacitance. He also brought up the important fact that switchmode power supplies and other nonlinear loads like computer PSUs have always historically been notorious for causing a range of electrical disturbances and nuisances in building distribution systems.


Later in the day, I brought the PSU to another house to continue my testing;


  • - Upon connecting the power supply to the circuit in a room equipped with CFL lights, no flickering was observed.

    - Upon connecting the power supply to the circuit in a room equipped with incandescent lights, flickering was immediately obvious.

    - The house is known to be at the very end of the transformer branch feeding a cluster of other houses, and at least 120 feet of wiring is present between the receptacle and the supplying transformer.

This was sufficient evidence to positively conclude that the power supply itself was definitely the cause of all of the flickering, which was being exponentially intensified as more wiring was introduced between the power supply and the electrical source.

I stopped by the local geek mall and picked up a Corsair HX850i to test the system with.

Lo- and behold:

NO MORE FLICKERING!

:D


Photos of the only test setup that was capable of manifesting absolutely no flickering with an incandescent light bulb on the same circuit:

@CBRworm: Since you mentioned that you have experienced the same flickering symptoms as me, I would be curious to know what type of power system you have supplying your computer, and how much wiring you have between your computer and your floor's substation/distro room. Perhaps a building engineer could let you photograph the nameplate on the transformer supplying your office, and possibly give you a loose estimate of the length of wiring between the two? I ask only out of scientific curiosity so that we might continue to build a knowledge base on this entire subject.

As for correcting your own issue, you could possibly try buying the same Corsair HX850i power supply that resolved my issue from a local retail store that has an easy return policy, and see if swapping your current power supply for that does anything. Otherwise, switching to CFL lighting might help mitigate the symptoms of the issue.

Let us know what you find out.


Hooray for progress!
 

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Well I guess something US special. 220V are more tolerant to lenght and ensures better and more efficient work of SMPS circuits.

Supplies cause noise yes, but such 10Hz?? I still think that the ground is the faulty sucker and the input filter just dumps voltage into it via Y cap and thus the flickering occurs. If really the input Z from mains is way too high, then you should see wires getting hot somewhere.

For fun you could try to put your power cable around with few turns in a ferrite core if you still can.

Your camera looks dead... like a HTC M7.
 
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@Ferrum Master:

like a HTC M7

LOL.

Yes, but the thing is a solid brick of aluminum. It's the perfect work phone, and I still love it for that.

I still think that the ground is the faulty sucker

That would mean that three out of three different buildings 15-30 miles apart all have defective equipment grounding systems. I tested two of the exact same make and model of power supply, one of which was factory tested and certified before shipment, and they both did the same thing.

I don't buy it.

It took connecting the thing straight up to a friggin' 75,000VA delta-wye power transformer fed by a 1 megawatt 13,800V substation a few rooms over to suppress the interference that it was generating due to it's nonlinear load characteristics. The thing was only drawing half of it's power at the peak of the sine wave, like some cheap full-wave bridge rectifier with a capacitor slapped onto the dc side:



The SuperNova 1000 P2 design as a whole is without a doubt wholly inferior in my eyes.

That, or they got a whole container in from China that was bad or something.
 
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@Ferrum Master:

LOL.

Yes, but the thing is a solid brick of aluminum. It's the perfect work phone, and I still love it for that.

I did repairs on them... the sensor didn't shut down, burns out... both M7 and M4 has the same camera. You have to do RMA for it. If the warranty is over If you are persistent enough you can arrange repair for free claiming it is a manufacturing known problem and their fault and bomb their HQ, they should exchange it for free, we have done it couple of times. You cannot change it yourself, you lack calibration software, it needs white balance calibration afterwards with the new camera.

The PSU just have different principles of filtering and levels of aggressiveness, the PFC boost part (dunno what type even) probably acts cuckoo because of something. Imagine all users using that PSU platform would have bitten off the head of the manufacturers... and the unit taken out of the market... so there is something, I haven't read nor heard such complaints a lot.
 
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PFC boost part (dunno what type even) probably acts cuckoo because of something.

My thoughts exactly. I didn't get around to probing the current waveform going into the unit, but I have a feeling that it's got to be something related to that If I'm seeing voltage dips, and nothing in the system is getting substantially warmer. Something about the unit could well be drawing significant kVARs.
 
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