• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Backpedals, Zen 3 Support Coming to B450 and X470

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,670 (7.43/day)
Location
Dublin, Ireland
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard Gigabyte B550 AORUS Elite V2
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 16GB DDR4-3200
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 4070 Ti EX
Storage Samsung 990 1TB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
AMD backpedaled on dropping support for its future "Zen 3" processors on AMD 400-series chipset motherboards. The company will work with its motherboard partners in integrating "Zen 3" processor support on certain beta versions of motherboard BIOSes. AMD also detailed how it plans to go about it. The said BIOS will be a one-way ticket to using "Zen 3" processors while losing support for all older microarchitectures.

The way it works is the motherboard manufacturer will integrate the Zen 3-only AGESA with a firmware that can squeeze into a 16 MB ROM. They may also choose to conserve ROM space in areas such as the UEFI setup program, which may not correspond with the motherboard's original feature-set. This is essentially similar to how MSI integrated "Zen 2" support on some of its older motherboards with 16 MB ROMs, by slimming down its UEFI setup program.



Since the BIOS will chop support for all older processors, to prevent motherboard RMA chaos for manufacturers, they will set up a system that issues BIOS updates only to customers upon verifying that they actually own a "Zen 3" processor. The way we imagine this works would be similar to game bundles (retailer issues a BIOS update token along with the processor, or a scratch card next to the case badge inside the PIB). Flashing a 400-series chipset motherboard will be a delicate process. You will have to use the USB BIOS flashback feature (which luckily is well proliferated on the AM4 motherboard ecosystem). Alternatively, you should be able to begin the BIOS flashing process with an older processor installed, and immediately switch over to the newer Zen 3 processor once the flashing process is complete.

Also, the beta BIOS updates won't be immediately available, but rather when "Zen 3" processors are readily available in all the markets AMD serves. AMD reiterates, that "Zen 3" will be the final microarchitecture 400-series chipsets support, recommending that the processors will work best with a 500-series chipset motherboard for best performance and support for the latest features.

Controversy erupted when AMD revealed in its B550 chipset slide deck that 400-series (and older) chipsets won't support "Zen 3," which users felt betrayed AMD's promise of platform support running into 2020. In the absence of B550, many value-conscious buyers paired their brand new 3rd generation Ryzen processors with some of the more premium B450 chipset motherboards, in hopes of an upgrade path to "Zen 3."

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Good to see AMD fixing their mistake.
 
With all that talk, AMD was about to do what their fans accuse Intel of: removing CPU support for no good reason.
At least they reversed their stance quickly. But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)
 
But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)
Dunno about that. I mean, how official was that reddit post to begin with? Yeah he worked for AMD, but I have no more info than that.

This wasn't a simple yes/no question. AMD really had to give it a thought if it was feasible, and to what extent.
 
I had a VERY strong feeling this was going to be the case.
I even posted that in another thread last week:
I still have hope that MB manufacturers will offer support for 4000 Series CPUs on B450 and X470 motherboards via BIOS updates.
 
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
 
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.

It's going to be up to board p[artners to do the soft lifting to make it work. There are too many if ands or buts which is why they said no. But really it is going to come down to the board partners to sort it all out.
 
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
You don't need an option for that, you can already flash anything you want on your BIOS copies. Typically one copy is used as backup/failsafe, but they don't care which BIOS version they hold. But you'll loose the backup/failsafe if the other copy doesn't support your current CPU.
 
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.

Maybe, on some boards it's possible, but not on all. You also can't manually select which one to boot from on most boards. Your board doesn't appear to have such a switch. Normally only really high-end models have that.
 
With all that talk, AMD was about to do what their fans accuse Intel of: removing CPU support for no good reason.
At least they reversed their stance quickly. But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)

you should really look into the problem before running your mouth, would make you look a tad more intelligent.
I recommened Gamers Nexus.
 
It's going to be up to board p[artners to do the soft lifting to make it work. There are too many if ands or buts which is why they said no. But really it is going to come down to the board partners to sort it all out.

My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.
 
You don't need an option for that, you can already flash anything you want on your BIOS copies. Typically one copy is used as backup/failsafe, but they don't care which BIOS version they hold. But you'll loose the backup/failsafe if the other copy doesn't support your current CPU.
How do you, as the end user, flash the secondary chip, if there's no switch to select which one to flash?
Normally it seems to be a matter you being able to flash the primary chip, but not the secondary one. I haven't had my secondary one kick in for so long that I don't even remember if gets flashed automagically or doesn't get updated at all.
 
That's not reddit. I was referring to when some AMD guy said the opposite of what that pic says, which started this whole shit storm.
You lost me.
 
My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.

The main issue is that the early Ryzens do not support ROM over 16mb. These cpus will see a 32MB ROM as two 16MB partitions if you will. That's why I suspect it will come down to how much lifting board partners are going to put into it. There's way too many variables times the cpus out there, times the MB models.
 
How do you, as the end user, flash the secondary chip, if there's no switch to select which one to flash?
Normally it seems to be a matter you being able to flash the primary chip, but not the secondary one. I haven't had my secondary one kick in for so long that I don't even remember if gets flashed automagically or doesn't get updated at all.
I'm not sure. I'm running Z170, I haven't flashed in a while...
 
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
It can be done on some motherboards BUT you will need to have the know how to flash the back up (2nd BIOS ROM) separately from the main BIOS ROM.
I did exactly that on a Gigabyte P55A board.
I had a BIOS version that I modified on the main ROM and the original untouched BIOS on the backup ROM.
Mine required using a DOS flash utility and using the correct software switches to flash the back up BIOS.
It did NOT have a physical switch to do that.
 
My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.
Well, sort of. I mean, the board makers are also going to have to be willing and it's possible and this is pure speculation, that they approached AMD and said hey, we didn't put large enough flash chips for the UEFI on these boards, so we don't want to support them for your next gen CPUs. Obviously the way it is now, it's down to each board makers to decide which boards may or may not get support, which sort of absolves AMD and the board makers.
 
The main issue is that the early Ryzens do not support ROM over 16mb.

Not necessarily a problem when an early Ryzen is not what is going back in to the board.
 
Not necessarily a problem when an early Ryzen is not what is going back in to the board.

You are not getting it. The early boards were not made with 32MB ROMS cuz the cpus only addressed up to 16MB. Board partners are going to have to make news bios per MB per needs.
 
Oh no, get ready for another round of broken BETA BIOS that no one will ever fix.
 
I'm 100% sure this won't turn out to be a s**tshow like everything BIOS-related with AMD before (AGESA stability, MSI 16MB BIOS limits, RX 5600 XT memory OC).
 
Back
Top