AMD GPUs See Lesser Performance Drop on "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided" DirectX 12

[TheGuruStud]

Not to mention the 980ti performance is a bit puzzling. My 980ti running at a not insane1500Mhz gets 42fps at Ultra on the benchmark Nowhere near the 34fps shown. I know that's a stock 980ti without any OC but hell, I'm at 23% above stock on performance..... That's me on DX11.

As for DX12 - as Nixxes have stated - there is no visual improvement in using DX12 over DX11, so why bother using it if your card already runs well?

I'm playing at Very High settings and getting a smooth 60fps at 1440p. All a fuss over nothing.

B/c 980ti is a good card...unlike the sad gains from OCing the 1080.

 

[R-T-B]

When NVIDIA sucks, it's "bad implementation". When AMD sucks, it's NVIDIA's superiority. Riiiight...

It's pretty much the pitfall of using a wide architecture. It's hard to optimize for, and AMD's DirectX 11 drivers are bad as hell at it. That's not really something I care to debate. It just is.

I'm hardly a fanboy and you should know better than to accuse me of using such a thought process. I simply said that legally, NVIDIA has nothing to fear from a lawsuit anymore than AMD has to fear from a lawsuit over DX11 performance. They are BOTH "bad implementations," just on different APIs. Personally, I'll take the API 90% of games are written in, but that's just me.

 

[Fluffmeister]

I think we would all accept a performance hit if the game actually looked a lot better as a consequence. As it stands, just use DX11, no problemo.

It's one game with less than stellar reviews after all.

 

[evernessince]

It's pretty much the pitfall of using a wide architecture. It's hard to optimize for, and AMD's DirectX 11 drivers are bad as hell at it. That's not really something I care to debate. It just is.

I'm hardly a fanboy and you should know better than to accuse me of using such a thought process. I simply said that legally, NVIDIA has nothing to fear from a lawsuit anymore than AMD has to fear from a lawsuit over DX11 performance. They are BOTH "bad implementations," just on different APIs. Personally, I'll take the API 90% of games are written in, but that's just me.

I'm pretty sure AMD's poor DX 11 performance is due to the lack of hardware multi-threading, a DX 11 feature Nvidia GPUs do have. It's got little to do with the drivers.

Nvidia's claims of DX 12 support are definitely shaky, it's similar to the 3.5 GB on the 970. Nvidia "has" DX 12 support but it's mostly software based and not hardware. They support very few features of DX 12 in the hardware.

 

[the54thvoid]

Another test for DX12 that clearly shows AMD GPUs gaining and 980Ti losing while Pascal is steady when changing from DX11.

1080P: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/...nkind_divided_directx_12_performance_review/2
1440P: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/...nkind_divided_directx_12_performance_review/3
4K: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/...nkind_divided_directx_12_performance_review/4

It is bizarre but then, DX12 isn't needed for Nvidia cards but for AMD it gives better fps. So basically, a small perf boost for camp red and an entirely unnecessary API for team green. And not to bang on but in that bench review, my 980ti pulls the same fps as a stock Fury X in DX12, so 980ti isn't a bad option if you actually overclock them .

But remember do, the game features at least two AMD 'prototype' mini PC's from the Fury pre-launch, a logo for TF29 that is AMD's logo (close enough) and a female lead called Vega. If this isn't AMD's equivalent of ROTR, I don't know what is.

 

[Aquinus]

News flash, you can utilize DX12 without utilizing a lot of the features that can speed the game up. Just because an application is utilizing a newer API that can outperform the old one does not mean that it's taking advantage of it. I find it highly amusing that people are faster to point a finger at AMD than at Square Enix/Edios Montreal. How does performance compare before and after with nVidia? I suspect that if it's practically unchanged that it's not nVidia and AMD that have work to do. There is a reason why people don't talk about Batman: Arkham Knight anymore and it's not because AMD and nVidia screwed up.

If you want to use an API, you do it right by starting with that API in the first place. Porting from one to the other is never really going to see the true benefit of what APIs like DX12 and Vulkan have to offer.

 

[Fluffmeister]

I'm pretty sure AMD's poor DX 11 performance is due to the lack of hardware multi-threading, a DX 11 feature Nvidia GPUs do have. It's got little to do with the drivers.

Nvidia's claims of DX 12 support are definitely shaky, it's similar to the 3.5 GB on the 970. Nvidia "has" DX 12 support but it's mostly software based and not hardware. They support very few features of DX 12 in the hardware.

2nd Gen Maxwell and Pascal support 12_1 AKA CR and ROV which AMD don't (look it up).

Nvidia are victims of superb DX11 support frankly (no joke).

 

[alucasa]

Yawn is all I can do. Same old story. Exactly same thing happened when Dx10 came out. Takes time to mature things.

 

[G33k2Fr34k]

The reason Nvidia is losing performance with DX12 is because their DX11 drivers do a lot of shader replacement to the point where they replace most of the shaders that ship with AAA games. Here's what this Nvidia driver developer has to say about shader replacement in Nvidia drivers:
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/ex-nv...-every-triple-a-games-ship-broken-multi-gpus/

DX12 drivers aren't supposed to do as much work as DX11 drivers. This means that a lot of the optimizations that are used for performance improvements can no longer be implemented for DX12 games.

 

[Fluffmeister]

The reason Nvidia is losing performance with DX12 is because their DX11 drivers do a lot of shader replacement to the point where they replace most of the shaders that ship with AAA games. Here's what this Nvidia driver developer has to say about shader replacement in Nvidia drivers:
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/ex-nv...-every-triple-a-games-ship-broken-multi-gpus/

DX12 drivers aren't supposed to do as much work as DX11 drivers. This means that a lot of optimizations that go into performance improvements can no longer be implemented for DX12 games.

Scary, no wonder every game from this point onwards is gonna perform like shit using DX12.

Devs can now truly be bought.

 

[G33k2Fr34k]

Scary, no wonder every game from this point onwards is gonna perform like shit using DX12.
Devs can now truly be bought.

Quite the opposite actually. We do not know whether the replacement shaders in Nvidia's drivers are fully functionally equivalent to the ones they replace. Nvidia could be cheating for all we know using shaders that do most of the work and skip a few things. In fact, that should explain why they lose performance in DX12. Their delta color compression is definitely not lossless, so I wouldn't trust their replacement shaders.

 

[R-T-B]

I'm pretty sure AMD's poor DX 11 performance is due to the lack of hardware multi-threading, a DX 11 feature Nvidia GPUs do have. It's got little to do with the drivers.

I find that unlikely. All GPUs rely heavily on threading to function.

Nvidia "has" DX 12 support but it's mostly software based and not hardware.

Not really. It beats AMD in other areas of hardware compliance... and looses in others. It's a mixed bag all around. See:

Skylake IGPU is actually the most compliant non-software implementation.

Their delta color compression is definitely not lossless,

That's something that COULD be mathematically tested. Got a source?

 

[Fluffmeister]

Quite the opposite actually. We do not know whether the replacement shaders in Nvidia's drivers are fully functionally equivalent to the ones they replace. Nvidia could be cheating for all we know using shaders that do most of the work and skip a few things. In fact, that should explain why they lose performance in DX12. Their delta color compression is definitely not lossless, so I wouldn't trust their replacement shaders.

Well if they are cheating, they are doing a bad job of it.

I don't really want to go into crystal ball territory, but again I thought DX12 was all about putting the onus on the dev, as it stands today DX12 offers nothing over DX11.

 

[D007]

Thought the point was to get better performance.. I'll reserve my judgement until we actually start seeing DX12 in games, normally.
But that's a pretty shitty first impression Nvidia.. I upgraded my windows and GPU based on this dx12 hype.. It needs to deliver..

 

[Fluffmeister]

Thought the point was to get better performance.. I'll reserve my judgement until we actually start seeing DX12 in games, normally.
But that's a pretty shitty first impression Nvidia.. I upgraded my windows and GPU based on this dx12 hype.. It needs to deliver..

Side note:
Can people stop digressing topics into fan boy flame wars, please.

Even DX12 exclusives like Quantum Break are now appearing on Steam as DX11.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Curious how in Vulkan nVidia also has performance gains, but on D3D12 (why do people keep saying DX12 ????), is the opposite...

 

[R-T-B]

why do people keep saying DX12 ????)

Possibly because D3D12 and DX12 are mutually inclusive, and DX12 is easier to type.

 

[Nkd]

Am I delusional here? i clicked on the link and AMD actually has performance bump in resultion up to 1440p and almost no loss in 4k.

The way the article headline states it makes it seem that AMD and Nvidia are both losing performance and amd is losing less. when all I saw was AMD actually gained performance in 1080 and 1440p

 

[Xzibit]

That 390X

@1080p it matches GTX 1070 and GTX 1080

@1440p its on par with the GTX 1070

 

[RejZoR]

It's pretty much the pitfall of using a wide architecture. It's hard to optimize for, and AMD's DirectX 11 drivers are bad as hell at it. That's not really something I care to debate. It just is.

I'm hardly a fanboy and you should know better than to accuse me of using such a thought process. I simply said that legally, NVIDIA has nothing to fear from a lawsuit anymore than AMD has to fear from a lawsuit over DX11 performance. They are BOTH "bad implementations," just on different APIs. Personally, I'll take the API 90% of games are written in, but that's just me.

If AMD's DX11 performance was so bad, why people still buy their cards? Maybe, just maybe, their performance isn't as crap as people say i is. Just because it's shit in one NVIDIA biased game, that doesn't mean those 2-3 frames per second make any kind of actual difference.

 

[Nkd]

If AMD's DX11 performance was so bad, why people still buy their cards? Maybe, just maybe, their performance isn't as crap as people say i is. Just because it's shit in one NVIDIA biased game, that doesn't mean those 2-3 frames per second make any kind of actual difference.

Can we please all request the title to be changed. What a shameful title, sounds like presidential politics lol. AMD and lesser performance drop, not a word on nvidia in the main title. Instead of saying AMD gpu's see performance gain in dx12 Deus Ex, it seems to be the other way around. Seems like TPU has a hard time saying anything bad about nvidia in headlines. Common get real. I have a 1070 and even I am against such bias.

 

[G33k2Fr34k]

Well if they are cheating, they are doing a bad job of it.

I don't really want to go into crystal ball territory, but again I thought DX12 was all about putting the onus on the dev, as it stands today DX12 offers nothing over DX11.

Game developers aren't computer scientists. It will take time for them to learn how to use the new programming interface. DX12 exposes a lot more through the API calls than DX11. Comparing DX11 to DX12 is like comparing coding in JAVA to coding in C. Most of these developers are basic programmers with little to no knowledge about topics such as process/thread creation and synchronization, memory management, low level graphics rendering algorithms and the math behind it.

 

[RejZoR]

That's a load of rubbish. If code monkeys doing the actual game don't have a clue how engine works, then maybe the engine guys should have a chat with them. And even that doesn't make sense because the engine dictates this, not level designer, so, whoever designed the engine should know how threading works and make it, well, functional.

 

[the54thvoid]

And let's not all forget. As some have already said, this is one game. And it's an AMD game. It is without any doubt playing to AMD's strengths, just as Nvidia titles play to Nvidia strengths. What is good is that even on Nvidia hardware, it's playing very well. The lower fps (for some cards) isn't a deal breaker, the game is stutter free.
The only kicker is the memory load. I'm playing close to the 6Gb number and that's my cards limit.


Edit: Found this on Google Now.

http://techreport.com/review/30639/...x-12-performance-in-deus-ex-mankind-divided/3

Seems the FPS numbers in DX12 mask an AMD issue after all.

 

[R-T-B]

If AMD's DX11 performance was so bad, why people still buy their cards?

Because their hardware is awesome enough to compensate in several ways. Look at the specs sheets. Compare performance to how much it SHOULD be in DX11. Yeah, I thought so.

You forget that less than a year ago, I owned an R9 290X.