AMD hints at high-performance Zen x86 architecture

[HumanSmoke]

I don't know enough either way, but if he designed K8 he certainly doesn't suck. And as much as I love to bash apple, their ARM CPUs A5 and such aren't that bad either.
Care to elaborate?

Jim Keller didn't design K8.
The original K8 (that Keller was working on) turned into an evolutionary dead end - and Keller then left AMD. The K8 that actually saw the light of day was designed by Fred Weber's team with help from Dirk Meyer's team (who were responsible for designing K7). Here's a copy of part of the introduction Weber made when the K7 was introduced at the 1998 Microprocessor Forum.



And here is the K8 press release from chief architect Fred Weber.

Jim Keller's main claim to fame was in developing HyperTransport from DEC IP (where Keller originally came from). As for Keller's subsequent success in chip designing, would anyone care to name them?

 

[R-T-B]

Thanks. As I said, I didn't know and was going by hearsay largely.

 

[HumanSmoke]

Thanks. As I said, I didn't know and was going by hearsay largely.

No problem, glad to shed some light.

This isn't aimed at you, but I find it a constant source of amazement that Fred Weber and Derrick Meyer (and Chuck Moore for that matter), are almost completely unknown by many of the people that ascribe god-like status on Jim Keller, when Weber and Meyer were responsible for AMD greatest products. It's equally nuts that the same people that deride Pentium hold AMD's K6 in high esteem, when they are largely a product of the same man - Vinod Dham.

 

[R-T-B]

The only Pentium I saw as truly a POS was the Pentium 4. I mean the power hungry G5 from apple/IBM pretty much kicked it's ass in every category, including power consumption. That was a miserly time for Intel...

 

[Ebo]

Someone forgot about the Pentium 4 era.

lol exactly, and it was Jim Keller who put Intels pentium 4 to sleep with the Athlon64, so the guy knows what to do.

My only concirn is, if Global foundries can refine and deliver good yields on the 14nm production method which TSMC allready is doing for Intel.

IF AMD wants to get back in the game, not only for desktop but especially in the servermarket, they have to deliver quite a comeback with a very strong chip.

I use my machine for videoediting and complicated drawings in autocad 3D, and its quite sad to see my old AMD FX-cpu with 8 cores OCed to 4.2Ghz being so far behind comparing with my I7-5820K at stock speed. In gaming the difference isent really there execpt in the Total war series then I see a difference.

 

[eidairaman1]

3 yo arch. Misguidance with phenom 1 and Bulldozer.

 

[Dent1]

less than 6 months.. did we adopt some new calender?

So the new year didn't start 1st January?

Anyways where are you here? You don't even like AMD go troll a Pro-Intel thread.

AMD should be barred from using the words "high performance" since that only applies to their CPU's when intel is not in the comparison.

When did high performance become "best performance".

 

[eidairaman1]

So the new year didn't start 1st January?

Anyways where are you here? You don't even like AMD go troll a Pro-Intel thread.



When did high performance become "best performance".

Do they go by fiscal?

 

[Batou1986]

Someone forgot about the Pentium 4 era.

What they did 12 years ago doesn't matter much today AMD is incredibly far behind intel.

So the new year didn't start 1st January?

Anyways where are you here? You don't even like AMD go troll a Pro-Intel thread.



When did high performance become "best performance".

When AMD's 8 core 125w high performance cpu's are on par with a budget 54w i3 in most applications

 

[Toothless]

Hmm.. I gotta keep my eye open for what AMD has in store. If they get their stuff in check then maybe I'll go back to them when my i7 finishes it's days. Already ran Athlon X4 and FX-6 core processors with a A6 being used, and if they get something good then I might return.

Though I'm loving the power my i7 is firing out.

 

[HumanSmoke]

lol exactly, and it was Jim Keller who put Intels pentium 4 to sleep with the Athlon64, so the guy knows what to do.

As I mentioned before, that was due more in part to Fred Weber, Dirk Meyer, and Chuck Moore. You could argue that without Hyper Transport (which Keller was responsible for), and AMD64 (the ISA) that David Cutler and Robert Short worked on, it wouldn't have all come together - but the plaudits go to Fred Weber and DEC's IP and former personnel - Meyer, Cutler, Short, and Keller all formerly worked for DEC.
FWIW, the last time Jim Keller was lead architect on a processor project that actually bore some fruit: DEC's 21264 (EV6) in 1998. No one discounts that the guy has talent, but way too many people are expecting a latter day messiah when the resume doesn't back the assumption up.

My only concirn is, if Global foundries can refine and deliver good yields on the 14nm production method

No reason why not. The process isn't GloFo's, it's Samsung's. The license includes all the work Samsung have done to get 14nm-XM up and running.

which TSMC allready is doing for Intel.

Eh? TSMC use 16nm and aren't allied with Intel (14nm/10nmFF), and don't compete for the most part in any market. Intel fabs it's own product and some third party FPGA's.

 

[R-T-B]

What they did 12 years ago doesn't matter much today AMD is incredibly far behind intel.

They ARE behind now. But a company backed into a corner can also be a dangerous company to deal with. I think we should all be hoping they pull something out of their hat, for competitions sake.

 

[eidairaman1]

They ARE behind now. But a company backed into a corner can also be a dangerous company to deal with. I think we should all be hoping they pull something out of their hat, for competitions sake.

(Bring in K7/K8 Crew)

 

[bpgt64]

Dear God, please let this be true...please.

 

[R-T-B]

As for Keller's subsequent success in chip designing, would anyone care to name them?

I think he designed the Apple A5, but with the assistance of ARM technologies themselves if I recall correctly. Not sure how much of that was him.

 

[HumanSmoke]

I think he designed the Apple A5, but with the assistance of ARM technologies themselves if I recall correctly. Not sure how much of that was him.

Not a lot. The Apple A5 is a combination of off-the-shelf IP. The processor architecture (ARMv7-A) was actually designed by Gerard Williams, Chris Hinds (FPU), and Raney Southerland. I can't find a short easily accessed (non-PDF) article, but some background is in this A6 article.

 

[R-T-B]

Sadly, that was my hunch.

I want AMD to win one but I'll agree that his skills are being massively overstated right now.

 

[xfia]

So the new year didn't start 1st January?

Anyways where are you here? You don't even like AMD go troll a Pro-Intel thread.



When did high performance become "best performance".

obviously you have not seen all the things I have said that support amd on what they do with apu's and help advance the gaming industry.. they currently just don't have that good of a desktop gaming platform to buy into. a game needs to well optimized or a high end gpu gets held back in a middle class area.

 

[HumanSmoke]

Sadly, that was my hunch.
I want AMD to win one but I'll agree that his skills are being massively overstated right now.

Quite possibly, Zen will be a series of successful products. Keller is still one component of a large and talented team. I hope the architecture bears fruit also, but as you say, the unbounded optimism needs tempering. While AMD should make large strides, it will also be a given that Intel's Skylake/Cannonlake (of which little is known at present also) will undoubtedly offer a strong counter.

 

[Dent1]

What they did 12 years ago doesn't matter much today AMD is incredibly far behind intel.

When AMD's 8 core 125w high performance cpu's are on par with a budget 54w i3 in most applications

Most applications. Since when?

If you look at any review the 8 core dominates the i3 on almost every page. The only application the i3 has a remote chance in is gaming.

Oh I get it "most applications" means you only read the gaming section of the review. Very clever boy.

Since you are so clever please tell me the applications excluding gaming where the i3 can beat the 8 core. It shouldn't be hard since they are on par (according to you)

 

[Frick]

Most applications. Since when?

If you look at any review the 8 core dominates the i3 on almost every page. The only application the i3 has a remote chance in is gaming.

Oh I get it "most applications" means you only read the gaming section of the review. Very clever boy.

Since you are so clever please tell me the applications excluding gaming where the i3 can beat the 8 core. It shouldn't be hard since they are on par (according to you)

Photoshop. Depending on what you do. Which is the core of the complaint: The performance is inconsistant.

EDIT: Anyway it's exciting. Just the step 32 -> 14nm is a huge one.

 

[Dent1]

When AMD's 8 core 125w high performance cpu's are on par with a budget 54w i3 in most applications

So you honestly think the i3 wins in MOST applications?

So are you telling me the i3 can outperform the FX-8 core in Encoding, 3D Rendering, Photo Manipulation, File compressing, Folding, General Multi-tasking etc.

Mr. Batou1986 you have gone quiet!!!!!!

Photoshop. Depending on what you do. Which is the core of the complaint: The performance is inconsistent.

I personally don't use Photoshop. But I give you the benefit of the doubt. Across most applications not called "gaming" the i3 shouldn't be uttered in the same sentence as the FX 8-core. Really surprised this community accepts what Batou1986 says as fact without a fight.

 

[RadFX]

AMD's Zen Architecture - Built from the Ground Up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Zen

14nm AMD Zen CPU Will Have DDR4 and Simultaneous Multithreading
http://news.softpedia.com/news/14nm...-and-Simultaneous-Multithreading-471401.shtml

Lets not forget AMD has Jim Keller, most likely the greatest CPU architect in the world. Based on Intel, Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia and IBM.

Zen is being designed to not only compete with Intel's future CPU's, its being designed to overtake them. Never underestimate a company that's been backed into a corner for so long.
After his work on K8, Keller left AMD in 1999. That is when the company started to go down hill.

He's been working on this ZEN project for some time now. I can see this completed and available in 2016. Stick to schedule. 2017 is way too far off, and a great opportunity could be lost.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6129/apple-a4a5-designer-k8-lead-architect-jim-keller-returns-to-amd

Thanks for posting this. I missed this thread and didn't know that AMD was evening working on their CPU's.

 

[64K]

So you honestly think the i3 wins in MOST applications?

So are you telling me the i3 can outperform the FX-8 core in Encoding, 3D Rendering, Photo Manipulation, File compressing, Folding, General Multi-tasking etc.

Mr. Batou1986 you have gone quiet!!!!!!



I personally don't use Photoshop. But I give you the benefit of the doubt. Across most applications not called "gaming" the i3 shouldn't be uttered in the same sentence as the FX 8-core. Really surprised this community accepts what Batou1986 says as fact without a fight.

According to Tom's Hardware even for gaming the i3 is on the same tier as the 8 core AMDs overall. I suppose if you are playing a game that uses a single core only then the i3 might be better.

 

[RadFX]

So you honestly think the i3 wins in MOST applications?

So are you telling me the i3 can outperform the FX-8 core in Encoding, 3D Rendering, Photo Manipulation, File compressing, Folding, General Multi-tasking etc.

Mr. Batou1986 you have gone quiet!!!!!!



I personally don't use Photoshop. But I give you the benefit of the doubt. Across most applications not called "gaming" the i3 shouldn't be uttered in the same sentence as the FX 8-core. Really surprised this community accepts what Batou1986 says as fact without a fight.

I don't accept it, however I don't read much about Intel cpu's because I couldn't care less about them. I have two Fx-8-core cpu's and they were a fantastic upgrade to the Phenom 2's. The bottom line is that most users spout off about Intel being much better when in reality they wouldn't notice the difference regardless which brand cpu they were using.