AMD Internal Benchmarks Show HD 3850 Supremacy

[wazzledoozle]

It's R600 on a 55nm die shrink. Not next-gen at all, just revision 2. Think X1800>X1900, but not even close to the performance benefits. DX10.1 differences are yet to be seen, but its pretty obvious already that DX10 offers no performance benefits at the same quality settings.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Unless they shrink the die on the 3850 it'll be 90nm like the 2900XT. I can OC my 2900XT a lot more than I could my X800XT with an aftermarket dual slot cooler. The 2900 has a lot of headroom for OC'ing and I don't see any reason why the 3850 wouldn't.

Also when you're going on about links this and links that. Well why don't you get some links to some benchmarks. You'll be hard pressed to find reliable ones where the 2900XT doesn't beat the 8800GTS 640mb in the majority of tests and the 8800GTX in a few (At least a recent one, not a year old one.) If the 8800GT is so great why doesn't it beat the GTX?

If you're trying to claim the 2900 is faster than the 8800GTS and sometimes GTX, then you need to provide proof. I have not seen any such comprehensive test that came out in favor of the 2900.

 

[Lopez0101]

Sorry, the 2900XT is 80nm.

Also, comparisons between the 2900XT and the GTX are irrelevant. The GTX SHOULD beat the 2900, it costs more. But when the 2900XT meets or beats at some game benchmarks then that is a different story.

There is always the OpenGL benchmark for the Fur shading.
http://www.dailytech.com/ati+radeon+hd+2900+xt+performance+benchmarks/article7043.htm - This is from April 2007
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=30179&highlight=HD2900XT+benchmarks - From May
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8800_gt_performance/page5.asp - About the 8800GT but it shows the 2900XT generally meets or beat the 8800GTS 640mb most of the time, losing a little.

It's hard to find recent benchmarks with newer drivers.

 

[crow1001]

I thought that the 38** will be on a smaller fabrication size....maybe that's the next gen.

It is on the 55nm process, Nvidia is on the 65nm with the GT and can still push out a high performance card on a single slot design, it will all come clear when the benches are out, people who decide to go with ATI after the reviews and are after good game performance at a good price really show way to much loyalty to one company, no matter how poorly it performs.

wazzledoozle;529254]It's R600 on a 55nm die shrink. Not next-gen at all, just revision 2. Think X1800>X1900, but not even close to the performance benefits

QFT

 

[kwchang007]

It is on the 55nm process, Nvidia is on the 65nm with the GT and can still push out a high performance card on a single slot design, it will all come clear when the benches are out, people who decide to go with ATI after the reviews and are after good game performance at a good price really show way to much loyalty to one company, no matter how it performs.

Well not neccesarily. Perhaps they just don't have the money for the 8800 gt. Maybe they're looking for a hold over card til the next high end. Maybe they don't run really high resolutions. Maybe this will be a huge suprise and the 3850 will rip apart the 8800 we don't know right now. It's in development, which includes drivers. But then again the 8800's drivers aren't the best right now. I think we're going to see final results in a month or two. But they are pretty close and let me put it this way, I wouldn't sacrifice pieces of a build to get a 8800 gt, but if I had the $50 I would get the 8800 gt. That's how I'm going to put it...it's how much money you have.

Big edit: Not about the subject, just that I hope this doesn't get to out of hand, it's not that bad now but I do realize my post could be taken the wrong way. I just want to let everyone know I am not trying to insult anyone by disproving what they say but just stating my opinion. And yeah I realize there are fan boys out there...me being one of them (my intel/amd set up is really nice to me) but just try to keep your minds open people, please and thank you.

 

[Ketxxx]

The ever so wonderful 8800 stutter issue in games programmed FOR that card.

PS- to those that don't know...

Programming specifically for a video card can lead to over 300% performance increase, has been known, has been proven.

Proof in point, lets take a "generic" bottom-out figure of 40FPS, assume the maximum 300% perf increase, and wham, just like that you got 160FPS.

 

[wazzledoozle]

It's kind of pointless to argue right now, when they aren't released to retail yet. Once they are we can have some conclusive benchmarks with recent drivers. I'm sure places like Anandtech will round up the 8800, 2900 and now the 38xx series.

Ultimately it comes down to price. Look at the Wii vs the 360 and PS3. If AMD can build these for less than their Nvidia counterparts, then the OEM's will keep ATI's income flowing.

 

[springs113]

It's kind of pointless to argue right now, when they aren't released to retail yet. Once they are we can have some conclusive benchmarks with recent drivers. I'm sure places like Anandtech will round up the 8800, 2900 and now the 38xx series.

these cards are suppose to be released da 15th right...man i gotta busy schedule...crysis, nfs, assassins creed, wwe, orange box, 8800 gt, 3870, phenom,790fx, gps sys, 500gb hdd or raptor 150gb, a 180p receiver, xfi sound card....damn i think im at like 2 grand n counting

 

[wazzledoozle]

Sorry, the 2900XT is 80nm.

Also, comparisons between the 2900XT and the GTX are irrelevant. The GTX SHOULD beat the 2900, it costs more. But when the 2900XT meets or beats at some game benchmarks then that is a different story.

There is always the OpenGL benchmark for the Fur shading.
http://www.dailytech.com/ati+radeon+hd+2900+xt+performance+benchmarks/article7043.htm - This is from April 2007
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=30179&highlight=HD2900XT+benchmarks - From May
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8800_gt_performance/page5.asp - About the 8800GT but it shows the 2900XT generally meets or beat the 8800GTS 640mb most of the time, losing a little.

It's hard to find recent benchmarks with newer drivers.

Looks like a mixed bag. In some cases, it performs terribly. In others, it's about even or slightly better. The problem there is that, these new cards aren't even as good as the 2900XT.

IDK when they are supposed to be released.

 

[crow1001]

Sorry, the 2900XT is 80nm.

Also, comparisons between the 2900XT and the GTX are irrelevant. The GTX SHOULD beat the 2900, it costs more. But when the 2900XT meets or beats at some game benchmarks then that is a different story.

There is always the OpenGL benchmark for the Fur shading.
http://www.dailytech.com/ati+radeon+hd+2900+xt+performance+benchmarks/article7043.htm - This is from April 2007
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=30179&highlight=HD2900XT+benchmarks - From May
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8800_gt_performance/page5.asp - About the 8800GT but it shows the 2900XT generally meets or beat the 8800GTS 640mb most of the time, losing a little.

It's hard to find recent benchmarks with newer drivers.

Is that the best you got? where this GTX killer you keep going on about, now i could come back with tons of reviews with up to date drivers showing the 2900 lagging badly bar some tests, without cherry picking tests or reviews :shadedshu but you probably know that so i wont bother.

Ah, what the hell, GT v 2900XT/AMD: Catalyst 7.10

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3140&p=10

 

[zOaib]

Well considering i had an 2900XT till the other week, i now know how much better the GT is, the new cards from ATI are 2900 xt's, they have the exact same specs bar the 55nm process and the currently useless 10.1 DX10 spec.

I Bought a 8800 gt to replace my hd 2900 xt 1 gb , BIG MISTAKE ........... the 8800 gt died on crysis 1600 x 1200 and it only ran decent on 1024 x 768 res with high settings , my 2900 xt was runnign crysis silky at my 28inch max resolution and with 4x AA and high settings , 35-42 fps , 8800 gt was giving me only 15-18 fps ............... and i honestly bought the 8800 gt's benchmarks that it slaughters 8800 gts which i used to own too .......... anyways i go with what works best for what i wanna use it for , and my hd 2900 xt has not let me down yet ! period !

 

[springs113]

Looks like a mixed bag. In some cases, it performs terribly. In others, it's about even or slightly better. The problem there is that, these new cards aren't even as good as the 2900XT.

IDK when they are supposed to be released.

as stated by DAAMIT themselves...these cards are better performers than the 2900xt...i belive that they are...because i believe all the bad with the xts were probably ironed out in this one...i also believe that is what a revision is suppose to be...that is why the g92 is so good... next we are all pawns because these companies knows what they are doing... its called strategic planning... and we the consumers always buy into this kind of hype...who's to say that these companies dont have their pawns watching us flare up back and forth

 

[springs113]

h3r3 it goes again...the g92s are faulty to a degree...and honestly too many people have complained about these cards dying on em...amd ftw... if if brings a better end result from both companies...
on a side note... whether ati wins or not i still think that it will self no matter what ...us enthusiaSS lol are a vast minority....

 

[indybird]

Heres what I've noticed from what I've noticed in reviews and from people I know.
8800GTX>2900XT most of the time
8800GTX>8800GT @ mid to high resolutions
8800GTS=2900XT almost all the time

Anyway, I'm hoping for the best in saying that either those benchmarks aren't done right or the drivers were not optimized at all.

I really hope the HD3870 is an ownage card. Just as long as it could compete with/slightly beat an 8800GTX, I will be more than satisfied. When ever I've looked for an upgrade I want an nvidia card for a while, then ATI comes through for me right in the end I go their way.

-Indybird

 

[crow1001]

I really hope the HD3870 is an ownage card. Just as long as it could compete with/slightly beat an 8800GTX

-Indybird

Hope is all you got mate, because the reality is the 3870 is just a 2900XT in sheep's clothing.

 

[zOaib]

well i guess i was not the only one with this problem with the 8800 gt in crysis

 

[springs113]

Hope is all you got mate, because the reality is the 3870 is just a 2900XT in sheep's clothing.

im tired of ppl bashing the 2900 xt....that card is awesome...its main downfall is its late release...expected due to the merger of ati and amd... second the xt is a solid card...even anandtech and techpowerup has confirmed this...also these two sites have also confirmed that in many instances the card is not being fully utilized...one thing can come to mind is the games being optimized for nvidia...the technology of the r600 is far superior to that of the g80/92...daamits technology is definately built for the future...not to say nvidia is not aiming for the same...but there is more areas for advancement for the r600 archi than the g80

 

[niko084]

We will have to wait to see what happens here with these new cards..

Don't ever take benchmarks or silly little reviews for granted...
Everything is FAR to unstable..

I have heard of people with 2900xt's that cannot run Crysis in anything over 1024x768 with low settings to try to keep above 40fps... Then again I can play dx10 on my 2600xt with all medium and a few high settings and average 40fps.

Then again I built a machine that ran max settings with a 2900xt that gave a smooth 40fps at 1280x1024.

It's a big mess... Anyway you look at it, buy what you want, can afford for what you use and personally like... Being a fanboy is stupid... People need to stop being so ignorant. People here have had such issues with 1950pro's that they went back to 6800xt's *can you imagine?*

Nvidia/Ati
It's like
Intel/AMD

When you get the top you get the top and it "can" go either way and it does.

Beyond that, people slam on ATI WAY too much, remember even if they are slower on average *which they are*, the games are built to run on Nvidia cards NOT Ati. So who is really building a superior card? Nobody knows, and there is no way to truly tell as of now.

HD3850 will rock stomp a 8600gt or 8600gts, its good competition between a 2600xt and a 8600gt in dx9 and in dx10 I am yet to see a 8600gts beat a 2600xt. Add the better gpu and take into consideration the 256bit mem bus and the 8600's are gone with the wind.

HD3870, well we will just have to see what happens when they are full release.

 

[devguy]

Wow, some serious arguing going on here. I thought I would add some info into the mix without going fanboyish in any way.

First, the 3850 is meant to compete with the 8600gts. It should be priced around the same, yet hopefully deliver the performance of the HD 2900GT with 1/2 the power consumption, only have a 6 pin pcie power connector (instead of 1 8 pin), and be single slot cooled. As those graphs illustrate, the 3850 dominates the 8600gts. I would then expect the HD 2600 series to become the low end ATI cards, and the HD 2400 series to become integrated into motherboards.

It is the HD 3870 whose job is to compete with the 8800GT, not the 3850. Don't confuse the two! I don't know much about the 3870 (therefore I cannot say if it will have half the power consumption as the 2900xt, or what power connectors it will use), but it does seem that it will retain a dual slot cooler. Note: dual slot cooler != running extremely hot. Also, how will the performance of this card be? I don't believe any of us are in a position to answer that beyond speculation. I will be interested to see cooling and noise benchmarks of the slot coolers for the HD 38xx vs 8800GT when they are all out on the market.

As for current cards, it seems that with up to date drivers, HD 2900XT gDDR3 roughly compares pretty well with the 8800GTS 640mb (it beats it in some tests, looses in others, but they roughly match out to the same are in the same pricing arena). The 8800GTX/Ultra typically dominate all their competitors. Whoppity-doo, do you expect any less from the prices being asked for them?! The 8800GT seems to perform above the 8800gts 640mb, but below the 8800GTX, yet costs much less.

Also to add, to know just how closely related the HD 38xx series is to the HD 2900XT, pay attention to the performance of the cards after AA is enabled. The 2900XT seems to become less competitive after doing that. If the newer ones don't, then they are probably more than just the "R600" die shrink Nvidia fanboys are claiming it to be.

Finally, if you remember, when the 8800 series first came out, purchasers of it liked to gloat against ATI owners because they had DirectX 10 support when they didn't. However, how long afterwards was the first DirectX 10 game released that wasn't just a patched DirectX 9 game? After the HD 2900XT, launch, that is for sure. Therefore, I believe history will repeat itself with select ATI owners gloating about having DirectX 10.1 support while Nvidia owners don't, when the first decent DirectX 10.1 games probably won't be released before Nvidia releases their own DirectX 10.1 card (something even further evidenced by the increasing "The Way It's Meant to be Played" campaign).

End of rant...

Edit: Sorry to add more... I don't believe the 3870 will have two cores/be crossfire on a card. I think that will be a separate card called the 3870x2. Also, ATI will continue to dominate in the AGP market, which refuses to go away.

 

[niko084]

Now what I am curious to see are some benchmarks with a quad crossfire setup

Thats where the pwnage of no space for a sound card will come! lol

 

[eidairaman1]

uh, if it was to compete with the 8600 it would be known as a 3620 or something like that not 3850, 3850 is a 3870 with lower price.

 

[niko084]

uh, if it was to compete with the 8600 it would be known as a 3620 or something like that not 3850, 3850 is a 3870 with lower price.

Its price is in the same zone which give the direct competition...
But here ATI destroys the competition.

 

[imperialreign]

Is that the best you got? where this GTX killer you keep going on about, now i could come back with tons of reviews with up to date drivers showing the 2900 lagging badly bar some tests, without cherry picking tests or reviews but you probably know that so i wont bother.

Ah, what the hell, GT v 2900XT/AMD: Catalyst 7.10

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3140&p=10

so, how many reviews have you run across where they compare the 2900 to a GT for every single Catalyst release? The card's performance continues to improve with each new driver. Sure, ATI screwed up releasing a card with flaky drivers, but it looks as though they won't be making that mistake again.

Simply put, most of the reviews comparing the 2900 to competitive hardware are old and outdated, another majority of reviews only use the drivers right out of the box, and yet, how many more review(er)s are typically green-sided? Case-in-point, if I open a review and see anywhere on that page an advertisement for either nVidia or ATI, the review is worthless, IMO.

It's funny how the reviews say one thing, but owners report entirelly different results.





. . . and somehow I forsee this thread getting locked down . . . :shadedshu

 

[Darkmag]

uh, if it was to compete with the 8600 it would be known as a 3620 or something like that not 3850, 3850 is a 3870 with lower price.

The 3850 is the midrange card of the HD 38XX family, like how the 2600 was the "midrange" of the HD2xxx family. The HD 3870 is the Highend card.

If we assume that these benchies are correct it means that the 3850 evenly competes with the HD2900XT we can therefore assume that the 3870 will be faster than the HD2900XT which means that it will compete with the GT/GTX.

These cards are refreshers as the R680 will launch beginning next year and the R700 at the end of 2008.

IMO ATI f***K up the R600 just like how nVidia did with the FX. and nVidia came back strong becuase necessity is the mother of invention

 

[TiKKa]

Yeah But

Well, the charts speak for themselves really. The 3850, which should be less than $200USD when it is released later this month, completely slaughters the intended competition, which includes the HD 2600XT, and the NVIDIA GeForce 8600GTS. The 3850 also holds it's own against the HD 2900XT.


The last images show RV670 supremacy in DirectX10 rendering.

Source: VR-Zone

Two cards in Crossfire on Crysis and you don't get over 30 FPS...Seriously why would you bother?