AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT Reportedly Outperforms RTX 5080 Through Undervolting

[wolf]

But that's not the point underneath this news article. The point underneath (that people were making in this topic, and not the way you memed it up here) is that the value of that 9070XT relative to its actual performance AND its price is insanely good, compared to a 5080.

And somehow when it's said so rationally like that, and not like some sort of wished schadenfreude or made up argument in their mind dialogue, it's not even the slightest bit agitating. Strange.

My opinion here is clear, if all the cards were at MSRP and available, the 5080 shouldn't even be a consideration, even hardcore Nvidia zealots would be better served by the price to performance of a 5070Ti, and many if not most would be just as well served with a 9070XT and pocket the difference.

 

[Vayra86]

And somehow when it's said so rationally like that, and not like some sort of wished schadenfreude or made up argument in their mind dialogue, it's not even the slightest bit agitating. Strange.

My opinion here is clear, if all the cards were at MSRP and available, the 5080 shouldn't even be a consideration, even hardcore Nvidia zealots would be better served by the price to performance of a 5070Ti, and many if not most would be just as well served with a 9070XT and pocket the difference.

But it WAS said so rationally, and you still felt the need to come back on that to downplay it. But let's drop it. Point was made, you want to keep living in denial, good on you.

 

[wolf]

But it WAS said so rationally, and you still felt the need to come back on that to downplay it. But let's drop it. Point was made, you want to keep living in denial, good on you.

What started it all was this - "That's embarrassing... For Nvidia." - and it snowballed from there, so it certainly didn't start that way.

If people want to make their rational point, they could just do it that way from the start, that could work.

Mate, your specs say you've just got your hands on a... lo and behold, totally unexpected! Drum rolll..... 5080.
So here you are downplaying anything that nips at its heels for nearly (or really) half the price

Sorry @Vayra86, saw you edited after we kept conversing.

I suppose that means you haven't seen the posts where I talked about it yet, it was a gift search my posts if you want. I wasn't intending on buying anything for myself till both the 9070XT and 5070Ti were out. Good things come to those who help others You shouldn't make such assumptions it's a bad look you could have asked. But you can keep laughing I suppose, I didn't pay for it and it's among the best gifts I've ever received

 

[_roman_]

It s not easy and timeconsuming to make settings for each game.

The red devil is just a high end expensive card. I wonder if those gpus are selected for such high end cards?

I wonder if it s only one benchmark or cross stable over 40 games with at least 1 hour game play each.

Games tend to crash with same settings with my 7800xt - one game stable does not imlly stable in another game after 31 minutes.

You have to be very brave to play with GPU voltage and clock to void the warranty.

Why should undervolt harm a card?
You reduce the direct current voltage

you may check any diode, transistor, fet datasheet first please.

 

[Epaminombas]

It s not easy and timeconsuming to make settings for each game.

The red devil is just a high end expensive card. I wonder if those gpus are selected for such high end cards?

I wonder if it s only one benchmark or cross stable over 40 games with at least 1 hour game play each.

Games tend to crash with same settings with my 7800xt - one game stable does not imlly stable in another game after 31 minutes.



Why should undervolt harm a card?
You reduce the direct current voltage

you may check any diode, transistor, fet datasheet first please.

CPU and GPU voltages are dynamic for a reason.

None of you have a degree in physics, much less participated in the creation of any hardware in your lives.

But if you had the opportunity, I bet you would undervolt the system at the factory without consulting any engineer or physicist about it.

You have no idea how many GPUs or CPUs would have problems with such a change.

There are people with PCs at room temperature of 10 degrees or less.

There are people with PCs at room temperature of 30 degrees or more.

Changes in voltage change the behavior of the CPU and GPU. If it spikes and needs more power and the voltage is fixed, it will cause bugs or even the system will shut down.

Sometimes I see people on forums saying that the PC shuts down and that it is not the culprit.

 

[DaemonForce]

The red devil is just a high end expensive card. I wonder if those gpus are selected for such high end cards?

There is some exceptionally high binning that happens for Red Devil cards, yes.
What I don't know is how that impacts the Hellhound and Reaper lineups.
I expect the Hellhound models are similar enough or ±3% Red Devil performance.
No word on Sapphire binning Pulse/Nitro like this (I might find out this weekend).

Why should undervolt harm a card?

The only thing that comes to mind is harmed performance/stability.
Whenever someone rages over these AMD cards it's Booboo the Foo.
They can't overclock, can't figure out menus and can't figure out stability.
Let them ragequit and return a perfectly working card. We'll put it to work.

 

[AVATARAT]

CPU and GPU voltages are dynamic for a reason.

None of you have a degree in physics, much less participated in the creation of any hardware in your lives.

But if you had the opportunity, I bet you would undervolt the system at the factory without consulting any engineer or physicist about it.

You have no idea how many GPUs or CPUs would have problems with such a change.

There are people with PCs at room temperature of 10 degrees or less.

There are people with PCs at room temperature of 30 degrees or more.

Changes in voltage change the behavior of the CPU and GPU. If it spikes and needs more power and the voltage is fixed, it will cause bugs or even the system will shut down.

Sometimes I see people on forums saying that the PC shuts down and that it is not the culprit.

I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Epaminombas]

I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

You refuted nothing I said

It just showed that you're the ignorant one here

 

[Veseleil]

I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

He came just to say we're stupid for undervolting our CPUs and GPUs. He might have a degree in physics though.

 

[Epaminombas]

He came just to say we're stupid for undervolting our CPUs and GPUs. He might have a degree in physics though.

I'm trying to say that I've seen more people get into trouble and bug their PCs by messing with voltage and clocks.

Explain to me why manufacturers no longer release firmware with voltage regulated downwards?

Explain to me why manufacturers use dynamic voltage? And why do you, the users, know more than the engineers and physicists who created the hardware?

 

[Veseleil]

I'm trying to say that I've seen more people get into trouble and bug their PCs by messing with voltage and clocks.

Explain to me why manufacturers no longer release firmware with voltage regulated downwards?

Explain to me why manufacturers use dynamic voltage? And why do you, the users, know more than the engineers and physicists who created the hardware?

You do realize that people who tend to mess with voltages and clocks in the first place have no trouble for doing it, because it doesn't void the warranty, genius?
Because you can just restore the defaults or the software will do that for you automatically if you go under/over the stability limits?
And you didn't know that the software those same engineers tested their creation with, have imposed limits for how much you can pull those frequency and voltage sliders around, numbers left there for us to play with, given by design?

 

[AVATARAT]

I'm trying to say that I've seen more people get into trouble and bug their PCs by messing with voltage and clocks.

Explain to me why manufacturers no longer release firmware with voltage regulated downwards?

Explain to me why manufacturers use dynamic voltage? And why do you, the users, know more than the engineers and physicists who created the hardware?

When someone who doesn't know what they've done plays with the voltages - it's always a mess.

Do you know what the Silicon Lottery is?

Every chip is different and needs different voltages to work Motherboard/Video cards manufacturers set voltages in a certain range (given by AMD/Intel/Nvidia) that all chips will work without problems. So the user can tune the chip they bought within those certain voltages that are safe or not. But I don't think I need to teach you in this thread what a CPU/GPU is and how they work.

 

[Epaminombas]

You do realize that people who tend to mess with voltages and clocks in the first place have no trouble for doing it, because it doesn't void the warranty, genius?
Because you can just restore the defaults or the software will do that for you automatically if you go under/over the stability limits?
And you didn't know that the software those same engineers tested their creation with, have imposed limits for how much you can pull those frequency and voltage sliders around, numbers left there for us to play with?

Obviously, changing the voltage and clock will void the manufacturer's warranty. This is stated in the terms of use.

But there are manufacturers who don't mind doing the kindness of replacing the CPU/motherboard or GPU of the person who messed around with the voltage and clock...

Just look anywhere and you'll see people who had their parts burned out by messing around with this.

Intel itself didn't want to give a warranty to people who overclocked Intel 13th and 14th generation processors, there's news about this everywhere...

Reality is not what you want it to be.

 

[Vayra86]

What started it all was this - "That's embarrassing... For Nvidia." - and it snowballed from there, so it certainly didn't start that way.

If people want to make their rational point, they could just do it that way from the start, that could work.


Sorry @Vayra86, saw you edited after we kept conversing.

I suppose that means you haven't seen the posts where I talked about it yet, it was a gift search my posts if you want. I wasn't intending on buying anything for myself till both the 9070XT and 5070Ti were out. Good things come to those who help others You shouldn't make such assumptions it's a bad look you could have asked. But you can keep laughing I suppose, I didn't pay for it and it's among the best gifts I've ever received

Sorry, I missed that, but yeah that's a great gift indeed, and hope you enjoy it But I'll take that one about a rational point to heart. You are right about that.

 

[Epaminombas]

Msi Afterburner Crash Windows

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Msi afterburner crash windows' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

Intel 14th Gen Crash Windows

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Intel 14th gen crash windows' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

Just two very simple examples.
for you to search on Google

Have you ever stopped to think why the Intel 285 and 265 came with lower clocks than the Intel 14900k and 14700k??

Was it because Intel forced a Turbo Clock that was not stable and released it anyway??

If not even Intel knew how to size the clock and the acceptable voltage, you will know.

 

[Veseleil]

When someone who doesn't know what they've done plays with the voltages - it's always a mess.

Do you know what the Silicon Lottery is?

Every chip is different and needs different voltages to work Motherboard/Video cards manufacturers set voltages in a certain range (given by AMD/Intel/Nvidia) that all chips will work without problems. So the user can tune the chip they bought within those certain voltages that are safe or not. But I don't think I need to teach you in this thread what a CPU/GPU is and how they work.

It's kinda futile to explain those stuff in a undervolting titled thread, but here we go.
With such a variety of a silicon quality, board partner hardware choices for a specific model, all kind of different workloads the given GPU can handle in any scenario, the vast values choices given by a certain tuning software is there for a reason. It's there to cover various models, from low-end to high-end, and even across different gens of hardware with completely different architectures. Yet it's made that you can't damage your hardware by setting unreasonable values, it'll just reboot the driver or PC althogether.

Just look anywhere and you'll see people who had their parts burned out by messing around with this.

Imagine John Travolta Pulp Fiction gif here. Sorry, I'm on a phone.
Do you know when to stop dude? This is GPU undervolting news thread. And no, no one ever damaged or void their hardware warranty by undervolting.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm trying to say that I've seen more people get into trouble and bug their PCs by messing with voltage and clocks.

Explain to me why manufacturers no longer release firmware with voltage regulated downwards?

Explain to me why manufacturers use dynamic voltage? And why do you, the users, know more than the engineers and physicists who created the hardware?

They use dynamic voltage to sell CPUs/GPUs. They just iterate on designs that provide greater efficiency every time, and/or greater performance. Dynamic clocking helps both.

But that has nothing to do with why people get into trouble and bug their PCs. Sure if your overclock/undervolt is unstable, your PC will crash. And then you change it so it does work. Its really that simple. In fact, its what overclocking is all about: trial and error, perhaps but not necessarily helped by knowledge and experience.

People brick their PCs not with an OC... but by failing in one way or another with their hands or with their software settings and third party bullshit that gets installed on a system. People wonder why they get microstutter when there's 600 chrome tabs on the background or why the PC is so slow when they never turn it off. People who overclock generally figure stuff out and are not that crowd. That is, if you discount the base level of stupid stuff anyone can do with anything in any sort of way.

 

[Scattergrunt]

And somehow when it's said so rationally like that, and not like some sort of wished schadenfreude or made up argument in their mind dialogue, it's not even the slightest bit agitating. Strange.

Sometimes, you just need someone else to say the same thing for it to be heard. The only bias I see here is the most common type.. not willing to get off the pedestal. We can blame equally, either-way, I think its all just the buzz around this bad launch getting to people. Got everyone antsy and agitated.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, nobody is gonna hold anything against ya (probably).

Anywho..

He came just to say we're stupid for undervolting our CPUs and GPUs. He might have a degree in physics though.

He is the High Priest of Linuxtology, so I wouldn't be surprised. (you shouldn't take what he says very seriously, he's trolling)

I can agree on that, the whole idea that an OC suddenly increases a cards' value is utter bullshit and always was, it requires a mere two brain cells to figure that out obviously.

Yea, we don't live in the days of where you could get some insane OC's that were significant enough to consider in the value of the card. Even back then, it was kind of bullshit.

But that's not the point underneath this news article. The point underneath is that the value of that 9070XT relative to its actual performance AND its price is insanely good, compared to a 5080. Fact is, not even half a tier down in Nvidia's stack will you find something competitive against it at its price.

First the B580 and now the 9070 / 9070XT, I'm sure Intel will come with something interesting soon hopefully, as I doubt the B580 will be the only thing part of Battlemage. No buzz about Battlemage though, I wonder why..

 

[Veseleil]

He is the High Priest of Linuxtology, so I wouldn't be surprised. (you shouldn't take what he says very seriously, he's trolling)

I'm aware of that. But it's that spreading FUD about uV that annoyes me, and at worst it might discourage some curious fellow lurking around our replies, to forgo using the best tweak these new cards have.
Because the undervolting is the best OC feature we got nowadays, so anyone shitting on it get my immediate attention. Cheers.

 

[Epaminombas]

recommends that new users sabotage their GPU or CPU with undervolts and clock changes is to try to solve a problem that didn't exist before.

For paltry earnings. The guy is playing at 80fps and will start playing at 83fps to have an unstable system.

 

[AVATARAT]

recommends that new users sabotage their GPU or CPU with undervolts and clock changes is to try to solve a problem that didn't exist before.

For paltry earnings. The guy is playing at 80fps and will start playing at 83fps to have an unstable system.

With most parts of our computer that are well optimized we can get 80 to 100+, but under Linux you can get 83, we know this

 

[AusWolf]

I'll play nice because Outback Bronze has very reasonably summed this up, we don't all have a cheer squad I spose, but if people (you know who you are) think their own biases and double standards aren't on show, then they need a reality check too.

You just had to take one last jab, didn't you? What point does it serve? I'd look into the mirror before calling someone biased if I were you. Supporting value for money over absolute performance at all costs is not a bias.

 

[wolf]

You just had to take one last jab, didn't you? What point does it serve? I'd look into the mirror before calling someone biased if I were you. Supporting value for money over absolute performance at all costs is not a bias.

Actions speak louder than words, what you say your biases are, relative to how you act can be very different things, so you could take your own advice on looking in a mirror. Just be honest about it - especially to yourself. The rest knows what's going on already.

 

[AusWolf]

Actions speak louder than words, what you say your biases are, relative to how you act can be very different things, so you could take your own advice on looking in a mirror. Just be honest about it - especially to yourself. The rest knows what's going on already.

What actions? We're on an online forum, all we have is words. And you're desperately trying to have the last one from what I can see. This is what's speaking loud at the moment.

 

[wolf]

What actions? We're on an online forum, all we have is words. And you're desperately trying to have the last one from what I can see. This is what's speaking loud at the moment.

What you claim your (lack of) biases are vs what you actually say around the forum (which can involve detailing actions you've taken). And lol, last word says the guy that also keeps replying for it.... you just asked me questions too... I have no further questions for you on this matter.