AMD Radeon Vega GPU Architecture

[Captain_Tom]

Well yeah, as it stands AMD have brought fuck all to the table.

Now think of those dodgy CPUs.

Are you talking about Intel and their revolutionary 5% increase per year? Now THAT is milking lol.

 

[Kanan]

They already announced the server chip is ~1530 MHz.

Source? Never happened.

That sucker performed 35% stronger than stock, and traded blows with a Titan (Beats it now due to Kepler's horrific aging)!

That never happened other than in your wildest dreams. Meanwhile I sport a 780 Ti that's still faster than RX 480 and 580. A Titan related GPU with higher clocks and half the vram. Titan aged very well with its 6 GB vram.

RX Vega's architecture is mostly a die shrink of Fury X.

That's completely wrong, Vega is something entirely else. You're still saying the same nonsense you said weeks ago never acknowledging that Vega is a new architecture and not even GCN anymore.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_Vega_GPU_Architecture/

"Vega" isn't a fancy name for the 5th generation Graphics CoreNext architecture, a new iteration of AMD's number-crunching machinery inside the GPU, but an entirely new GPU design. The GPUs will still employ GCN compute units, but will augment them with several new components never before featured on AMD GPUs, which will improve the chip's efficiency to cope with complex graphics and general processing workloads.

You're literally the only one saying Vega isn't GCN.

 

[Kanan]

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_Vega_GPU_Architecture/

You're literally the only one saying Vega isn't GCN.

No I'm not the only one, but you're the only one comparing Vega to Fiji 1:1 ignoring 2 gens of improvement so much ignorance.

It's called NCU shaders not GCN shaders btw. Read up on the vast amount of changes before comparing Fiji with Vega again. Seems your knowledge is still quite outdated.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Polaris (4th generation) difference versus Tonga (3rd generation) is not much different (sans die shrink) than comparing Haswell to Skylake. It's only a tiny bit better most likely due to four times bigger L2 cache. Fiji is a derivative of Tonga with 64 compute units. Where did Polaris's performance mostly come from? Not the architecture, but the die shrink resulting in higher stable clockspeeds. The same can be expected of Vega compared to Fiji. Vega will net some improvements but I expect them to mostly be in the power consumption department and not the framerate department. I'm realistic about Vega, not optimistic.

 

[Kanan]

Polaris (4th generation) difference versus Tonga (3rd generation) is not much different (sans die shrink) than comparing Haswell to Skylake. It's only a tiny bit better most likely due to four times bigger L2 cache. Fiji is a derivative of Tonga with 64 compute units. Where did Polaris's performance mostly come from? Not the architecture, but the die shrink resulting in higher stable clockspeeds. The same can be expected of Vega compared to Fiji. Vega will net some improvements but I expect them to mostly be in the power consumption department and not the framerate department. I'm realistic about Vega, not optimistic.

I know, still you admitted it's different and then you said it's different again, talking about changes two times. You're countering your own original post by now. Still Vega is much more different than you think it will be. If it's simply a bigger Polaris it will have no chance vs. 1080 Ti, that's when most people hope and think you're wrong. Your "realism" is based on knowledge of the past, but calling a guesstimate "realism" is just off. We will see what Vega brings to the table and what not.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

If it's simply a bigger Polaris it will have no chance vs. 1080 Ti...

That's exactly the point. 1080 Ti is plausible in some scenarios but Titan Xp is unrealistic.

Also, AMD themselves call Vega 5th gen GCN:
https://www.docdroid.net/PucBhT9/gdc2017-advanced-shader-programming-on-gcn.pdf.html#page=35

 

[Kanan]

I don't want to fixate myself now, talking about naming. It's not important, important is whether the changes in Vega are big enough to counter 1080 Ti or not. If not I at least hope it easily counters 1080, being able to be a GPU that's priced between them. But even that would not be a optimal outcome for AMD to say the least.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The four main changes...
-High Bandwidth Cache Controller: more helpful for professional workloads than gaming. Also helpful for integration into APUs and consoles.
-Primitive Shader: not useful unless developers code specifically for it (Vega only).
-Draw Space Binning Rasterizer: main advantage is reducing power consumption. Performance is only improved in low bandwidth environments (e.g. APUs where the system RAM is used).
-Rapid Packed Math: not useful unless developers code specifically for it (Vega only). More helpful for high performance computing workloads than gaming.

So...
-2 require coding specifically for Vega from developers.
-2 are features aimed directly at high performance computing.
-2 features are aimed at improving performance when mated directly to a CPU.
-1 feature is designed specifically to reduce power consumption in some situations.

Other than power efficiency, none of these things will make Vega better compete with GTX 1080 Ti on performance. At least not without developers coding specifically for Vega which...fat chance unless AMD is paying them directly.

Vega competing with GTX 1080 is pretty much a given. It might be a little bit slower but compete nonetheless. GTX 1080 Ti is unlikely and Titan Xp is unrealistic without more significant architectural changes.

 

[64K]

I don't want to fixate myself now, talking about naming. It's not important, important is whether the changes in Vega are big enough to counter 1080 Ti or not. If not I at least hope it easily counters 1080, being able to be a GPU that's priced between them. But even that would not be a optimal outcome for AMD to say the least.

My bet is that Vega will be good competition for the 1080 and if DX12 or Vulkan takes off then it will probably take the lead. AMD already has entry level competition for Nvidia GPUs and competition for the lower mid-range 1060 6GB with the 580 if you compare OC to OC models right out of the box. Vega should be good competition for the rest of the mid-range Nvidia GPUs and really, imo, they don't have to bring competition for the 1080 Ti. The vast majority of people buy entry level and mid-range GPUs. That's where the money is.

Pricing on Vega is what I wonder about. If the pricing is good then everybody wins because even Nvidia fans will like seeing the prices drop a little on the 1070 and 1080.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Somewhere between $500-$650 is my guess.

 

[Kanan]

My bet is that Vega will be good competition for the 1080 and if DX12 or Vulkan takes off then it will probably take the lead. AMD already has entry level competition for Nvidia GPUs and competition for the lower mid-range 1060 6GB with the 580 if you compare OC to OC models right out of the box. Vega should be good competition for the rest of the mid-range Nvidia GPUs and really, imo, they don't have to bring competition for the 1080 Ti. Most people buy entry level and mid-range GPUs. That's where the money is.

Pricing on Vega is what I wonder about. If the pricing is good then everybody wins because even Nvidia fans will like seeing the prices drop a little on the 1070 and 1080.

The problem with Vega is the same that Fiji had, if it's only competing with 1080 it's too expensive because it's a vastly bigger chip and has expensive HBM2 on top, making Vega a expensive bought "win" over just the 1080, the smaller Nvidia chip. That's why I hope it will be at least 20% faster than 1080 so that AMD has it easy to position it against the 1080 between, in the middle of the two high-end GPUs of Nvidia.

 

[Super XP]

The problem with Vega is the same that Fiji had, if it's only competing with 1080 it's too expensive because it's a vastly bigger chip and has expensive HBM2 on top, making Vega a expensive bought "win" over just the 1080, the smaller Nvidia chip. That's why I hope it will be at least 20% faster than 1080 so that AMD has it easy to position it against the 1080 between, in the middle of the two high-end GPUs of Nvidia.

I don't know why people Underestimate VEGA and what AMD has done to it. VEGA has been Architecturally overhauled. AMD also haven't given us all the details about VEGA.

Based on the most recent statements by AMD, VEGA should be Faster than the 1080ti. This card has nothing to do with the plain 1080.

 

[Super XP]

AMD Radeon RX Vega to compete with GTX 1080 Ti
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/43488-amd-radeon-rx-vega-to-compete-with-gtx-1080-ti

 

[kruk]

I don't know why people Underestimate VEGA and what AMD has done to it. VEGA has been Architecturally overhauled. AMD also haven't given us all the details about VEGA.

Based on the most recent statements by AMD, VEGA should be Faster than the 1080ti. This card has nothing to do with the plain 1080.

The absence of leaks is not what would you expect so close to release. Remember how much leaks Ryzen got months before release? There are barely any for Vega, also Vega 11 which should be very important, seems to be completely missing in action.

IMO: It's better to underestimate and be surprised than overestimate and be disappointed

 

[Super XP]

AMD keeping VEGA quiet is a good thing. Don't reveal too much to the competition. Catch the competition by surprise. Ryzen was a surprise and look how well they do.

 

[64K]

AMD Radeon RX Vega to compete with GTX 1080 Ti
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/43488-amd-radeon-rx-vega-to-compete-with-gtx-1080-ti

That site is run by a guy that got fired by the National Enquirer for spouting too much BS. lol

 

[Super XP]

That site is run by a guy that got fired by the National Enquirer for spouting too much BS. lol

Get your facts straight. He worked with Mike Magee of The Inquirer.net. Then moved off to develop his own site called Fudzilla. Mike eventually left The Inquirer and opened up a couple other tech sites, one being Tech Eye. And with them also worked Charlie Demerjian at The Inquirer.

Charlie is now founder of Stone Arch Networking Services and SemiAccurate.com.

 

[Kanan]

I don't know why people Underestimate VEGA and what AMD has done to it. VEGA has been Architecturally overhauled. AMD also haven't given us all the details about VEGA.

Based on the most recent statements by AMD, VEGA should be Faster than the 1080ti. This card has nothing to do with the plain 1080.

I don't underestimate anything. You're always triggered by my still AMD - friendly posts, because you're frankly such a massive fanboy.

Annoying to say the least. Trying to have a sensible debate and those fanboys coming in and ruining everything with their emotionally overflooded behaviour full of bias. I don't even care to explain myself anymore, waste of time.

 

[Super XP]

I don't underestimate anything. You're always triggered by my still AMD - friendly posts, because you're frankly such a massive fanboy.

Annoying to say the least. Trying to have a sensible debate and those fanboys coming in and ruining everything with their emotionally overflooded behaviour full of bias. I don't even care to explain myself anymore, waste of time.

I'm not a Fanboy of anything. I like routing for the UnderDOG.
I posted a link. Check it out. Fudzilla is rarely wrong.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

AMD Radeon RX Vega to compete with GTX 1080 Ti
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/43488-amd-radeon-rx-vega-to-compete-with-gtx-1080-ti

That's already been beaten to pulp here: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...he-league-of-gtx-1080-ti-and-titan-xp.232740/


Edit: Question: "I know you won't be able to say much, but how does Vega compare to the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti and the Nvidia Titan Xp?"
Answer: "(re Vega): It looks really nice."

Was he really going to say anything different? He's there to promote AMD and at the same time, not say anything that will get him in trouble. Translation: means absolutely nothing.

AMD keeping VEGA quiet is a good thing. Don't reveal too much to the competition. Catch the competition by surprise. Ryzen was a surprise and look how well they do.

Ryzen wasn't a surprise. Jim Keller was behind it. He was behind every good chip AMD made.

 

[Kanan]

The surprise was just that IPC increased by 52% instead of "just" 40%.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Comparing it to Bulldozer though, no? Bulldozer was a steaming pile of shit.

 

[Kanan]

Comparing it to Bulldozer though, no? Bulldozer was a steaming pile of shit.

*Excavator or Piledriver, it's not 100% clear.

 

[EarthDog]

In fairness, their internal goal really doesnt (shouldnt?) Matter to us (i guess it doesnt to me, ). Kudos..sure, but I hang my hat on the results, not internal goals and projections.