AMD Readies X870E Chipset to Launch Alongside First Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" CPUs

[AusWolf]

Glad that someone realises this. What makes it even more offensive is that AM5 was supposed to have USB4 at launch, but it's taken ASMedia over a year to pull their finger out.

The other thing is that ASM4242 requires four PCIe 4.0 lanes, which aren't free. If board manufacturers decide to connect it directly to the CPU (and assuming AMD allows this) you'll lose one of the 5.0 M.2 slots, if they go with one of the P21s you'll lose something there (probably also an M.2 slot although "only" a 4.0 one).

What a useless upgrade, then (is it even an upgrade?). And here I thought that the next AMD chipset would mandate the use of PCI-e 5.0 all across the board. How foolish of me!

 

[Ownedtbh]

What happend to X770 B750 and A720?

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Some motherboards(MSI X670e ACE prime example) have their 20Gbps and USB 4 ports on separate card connected via mPCIe slot while Wifi with its dedicated slot is quite common across multiple board vendors.

There is no "MSI X670E ACE PRIME" motherboardz there a MSI X670E ACE, but no "prime". I looked at a review of the board and they don't mention any daughter board and mPCIE slots haven't been used on years, so I'm very confused as to what you're describing...

What a useless upgrade, then (is it even an upgrade?). And here I thought that the next AMD chipset would mandate the use of PCI-e 5.0 all across the board. How foolish of me!

99% of people don't need four m.2 slots anyway, PCIe 5.0 offers no benefit over 4.0 for anything currently for regular consumers. 16x lanes of 4.0 is plenty for a GPU and what really matters to user experience with storage are the low queue depth random reads and writes which have been essentially the same for NVMe drives since PCIe 3.0 (Intel Optane/3DXPoint has been the only real meaningful "breakthrough" in this department.

Personally, I'd gladly take the USB4 port over a 4th or 5th m.2 slot

 

[Knight47]

I want 8 m.2 slots...........even if they are all version 4 I'm fine with that.

I wish they would do this, but since your avarage user only uses one m.2 drive, I doubt it will happen

 

[AusWolf]

There is no "MSI X670E ACE PRIME" motherboardz there a MSI X670E ACE, but no "prime". I looked at a review of the board and they don't mention any daughter board and mPCIE slots haven't been used on years, so I'm very confused as to what you're describing...

"Prime example" is an expression, meaning "perfect example" or "good example". The word "prime" is not part of the model name.

99% of people don't need four m.2 slots anyway, PCIe 5.0 offers no benefit over 4.0 for anything currently for regular consumers. 16x lanes of 4.0 is plenty for a GPU and what really matters to user experience with storage are the low queue depth random reads and writes which have been essentially the same for NVMe drives since PCIe 3.0 (Intel Optane/3DXPoint has been the only real meaningful "breakthrough" in this department.

Personally, I'd gladly take the USB4 port over a 4th or 5th m.2 slot

Personally, I don't care about PCI-e 5.0 or USB 4 at all. I just thought AMD would make the next generation of boards ready for RDNA 4/5 by mandating PCI-e 5.0 and use it in their marketing - not that it matters much unless mid-range RDNA 4 gets an x8 bus.

 

[TheLostSwede]

It may be a Thunderbolt chip but it's just USB4 ports as configured on this motherboard. I can output to a display from them but I'm pretty sure they don't officially support the full Thunderbolt spec.

I don't really mind if I'm only getting 32 Gbps instead of 40, due to gen 3, at least it's not taking faster PCIE priority for a port that's already faster than anything I'll connect to it.

View attachment 333234

USB4 fully supports Thunderbolt 3, it's part of the spec.

 

[Assimilator]

What a useless upgrade, then (is it even an upgrade?). And here I thought that the next AMD chipset would mandate the use of PCI-e 5.0 all across the board. How foolish of me!

The chance of seeing PCIe 5.0-capable chipsets in AM5's lifetime is effectively nil. Multi-GPU is dead (and no GPUs use 5.0 anyway), there are no other PCIe 5.0 expansion cards, and PCIe 5.0 SSDs are still rare enough that the two 5.0 M.2 slots off the CPU are going to be enough for almost anyone.

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

I wish they would do this, but since your avarage user only uses one m.2 drive, I doubt it will happen

You're going to want to go up to a workstation class board for that.

I'm with you though I need gobs of RAM and storage but I don't need all the cores of going up to Threadripper.

Desktop class solutions are much more attractive now with high enough core counts and the ability to toss a lot of memory into it but they still lack on storage and PCI-E.

 

[AusWolf]

The chance of seeing PCIe 5.0-capable chipsets in AM5's lifetime is effectively nil. Multi-GPU is dead (and no GPUs use 5.0 anyway), there are no other PCIe 5.0 expansion cards, and PCIe 5.0 SSDs are still rare enough that the two 5.0 M.2 slots off the CPU are going to be enough for almost anyone.

How about RDNA 4/5? Are they gonna be on PCI-e 4.0?

 

[Icon Charlie]

Finally a good contender

Damm I just built a second x570 rig for streaming ~~~~

I would not worry too much actually. That chipset and series will be valid for years to come.

 

[Assimilator]

You're going to want to go up to a workstation class board for that.

I'm with you though I need gobs of RAM and storage but I don't need all the cores of going up to Threadripper.

Desktop class solutions are much more attractive now with high enough core counts and the ability to toss a lot of memory into it but they still lack on storage and PCI-E.

The underlying problem is that Prom21 is a shit chipset. It has 12 total PCIe 4.0 lanes but you always lose 4 of those to communication with either the CPU or the next chipset, and if it's not the last chipset in the daisy chain you lose another 4. That means in the multi-chipset case, you end up having a 12-lane chipset that puts out a mere 4 lanes, which is basically a waste of silicon at that point (except for the USB).

The right way to do this would be to build a "Prom21 Workstation" chipset that puts out another eight 4.0 lanes (so 20 total). That would be able to drive a single x16 slot off the last chipset in the chain, which would enable a proper workstation board with x16 PCIe 5.0, two M.2 5.0, x16 4.0. If you need extra M.2 drives in that config, drop a quad M.2 card into that second x16 slot... or build a board that uses two of these chips and thus allows an extra 3 M.2s.

But as I explained in a previous post, AMD will never do this because they hate consumers - at this point our only hope is that Intel steps up and does something special with their next generation. Given how disappointing the "14th gen" CPUs have been though, I'm not holding my breath.... after all it's Intel who are responsible for the "HEDT" market segmentation in the first place.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

No, you have an Intel JHL8540 Thunderbolt 4 chip that is slower than the ASM4242 when it comes to USB4 data transfers due to it being PCIe 3.0 rather than PCIe 4.0.

Slower how? 40Gbps is 40Gbps. The Intel chip is advertised to reach that rate. Are you saying the JHL8540 can't achieve that while the ASM4242 can?

 

[dgianstefani]

Slower how? 40Gbps is 40Gbps. The Intel chip is advertised to reach that rate. Are you saying the JHL8540 can't achieve that while the ASM4242 can?

JHL8540 can only do 32 Gbps due to pcie gen 3x4

 

[Assimilator]

Are you saying the JHL8540 can't achieve that while the ASM4242 can?

Yes.

JHL8540 uses 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. PCIe 3.0 speed is 8 Gbps. Therefore the total possible bandwidth is 32 Gbps.
ASM4242 uses 4 lanes of PCIe 4.0 at 16Gbps per lane. Therefore it uses only 40 Gbps of the total 64 Gbps available.

 

[AusWolf]

The underlying problem is that Prom21 is a shit chipset. It has 12 total PCIe 4.0 lanes but you always lose 4 of those to communication with either the CPU or the next chipset, and if it's not the last chipset in the daisy chain you lose another 4. That means in the multi-chipset case, you end up having a 12-lane chipset that puts out a mere 4 lanes, which is basically a waste of silicon at that point (except for the USB).

The right way to do this would be to build a "Prom21 Workstation" chipset that puts out another eight 4.0 lanes (so 20 total). That would be able to drive a single x16 slot off the last chipset in the chain, which would enable a proper workstation board with x16 PCIe 5.0, two M.2 5.0, x16 4.0. If you need extra M.2 drives in that config, drop a quad M.2 card into that second x16 slot... or build a board that uses two of these chips and thus allows an extra 3 M.2s.

But as I explained in a previous post, AMD will never do this because they hate consumers - at this point our only hope is that Intel steps up and does something special with their next generation. Given how disappointing the "14th gen" CPUs have been though, I'm not holding my breath.... after all it's Intel who are responsible for the "HEDT" market segmentation in the first place.

Prom21 is a consumer chipset, and it's fine for that. One x16 for graphics and two x4 for storage from the CPU and another 8 lanes coming from the chipset are more than enough for any home build. It has nothing to do in a workstation, though.

Edit: Why X670 exists with two of these chips in tandem, taking lanes from each other, I have no idea.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

JHL8540 can only do 32 Gbps due to pcie gen 3x4

Yes.

JHL8540 uses 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. PCIe 3.0 speed is 8 Gbps. Therefore the total possible bandwidth is 32 Gbps.
ASM4242 uses 4 lanes of PCIe 4.0 at 16Gbps per lane. Therefore it uses only 40 Gbps of the total 64 Gbps available.

Thats interesting. Pretty much every product that uses that chip is advertised for "up to 40Gbps". If the technical max is 32Gbps, then saying "up to 40Gbps" is straight up lying. How are they allowed to get away with that?

 

[AusWolf]

Thats interesting. Pretty much every product that uses that chip is advertised for "up to 40Gbps". If the technical max is 32Gbps, then saying "up to 40Gbps" is straight up lying. How are they allowed to get away with that?

View attachment 333256

View attachment 333255

"Up to" and "bi-directional bandwidth" are lovely terms, aren't they?

Just like when a job is advertised as "up to £X per hour"... Sure, if you're doing overtime on a Sunday after 8 PM after incurring a performance premium, which no sane person would do, ever.

Edit: Maybe devices on the controller can communicate with each other at 40 Gbps, but the controller communicates with the rest of the system at 32.

 

[Redwoodz]

The underlying problem is that Prom21 is a shit chipset. It has 12 total PCIe 4.0 lanes but you always lose 4 of those to communication with either the CPU or the next chipset, and if it's not the last chipset in the daisy chain you lose another 4. That means in the multi-chipset case, you end up having a 12-lane chipset that puts out a mere 4 lanes, which is basically a waste of silicon at that point (except for the USB).

The right way to do this would be to build a "Prom21 Workstation" chipset that puts out another eight 4.0 lanes (so 20 total). That would be able to drive a single x16 slot off the last chipset in the chain, which would enable a proper workstation board with x16 PCIe 5.0, two M.2 5.0, x16 4.0. If you need extra M.2 drives in that config, drop a quad M.2 card into that second x16 slot... or build a board that uses two of these chips and thus allows an extra 3 M.2s.

But as I explained in a previous post, AMD will never do this because they hate consumers - at this point our only hope is that Intel steps up and does something special with their next generation. Given how disappointing the "14th gen" CPUs have been though, I'm not holding my breath.... after all it's Intel who are responsible for the "HEDT" market segmentation in the first place.

Are you that delusional? AMD hates consumers? LMAO! That's a good one. Really absurd. You waiting for Intel to step-up? Remeber who forced you to use 4 cores forever until AMD stepped-up. Really this is the most insane post ever on TPU/

 

[The_Enigma]

I want 8 m.2 slots...........even if they are all version 4 I'm fine with that.

Eh. No where good to put that many on the MB, and nvme drives throttle too much anyway. I wish they would keep 1-2 for people who don't need more than one main drive for the pc and then remove all sata and replace those ports with 6 or more u.3 ports. Go back to that 2.5 form factor for nvmes and allow higher capacities and no throttling from the extra heat sinking capacity. U.3 allows sata through it anyway so technically they aren't losing capability for older, slower drives, but rather replacing far outdated ports with ones that have higher speed and more functionality.

 

[jesdals]

What happend to X770 B750 and A720?

Dont worry they need those for rebranded X670/B650/A620s

 

[JoeTheDestroyer]

What a boneheaded move. It'd be one thing if usb4 were now being built into the chipset, but to mandate everyone must lose 4 pcie lanes to an extra chip that only a few will need...

We've got these things called "slots" for a reason, they can be used for anything. No need to sacrifice one person's use case for another, everyone can get exactly what they need.

I'm not arguing against mb manufacturers building this stuff in (though I, personally, think it's dumb). But the choice should be left up to them, because as long as there's enough different models, it also means the choice is left up to the consumer.

I specifically looked for an x670e board w/o usb4 and w/o an overload of m.2 slots, but instead had several pcie slots because I knew that would leave me the most future proof. (Funny that it also ended up one of the cheapest models, because no money was wasted on the unnecessary.)

 

[Assimilator]

Are you that delusional? AMD hates consumers? LMAO! That's a good one. Really absurd. You waiting for Intel to step-up? Remeber who forced you to use 4 cores forever until AMD stepped-up. Really this is the most insane post ever on TPU/

Grow up. No company loves consumers.

I specifically looked for an x670e board w/o usb4 and w/o an overload of m.2 slots, but instead had several pcie slots because I knew that would leave me the most future proof. (Funny that it also ended up one of the cheapest models, because no money was wasted on the unnecessary.)

What board did you settle on?

 

[Tigerfox]

The chance of seeing PCIe 5.0-capable chipsets in AM5's lifetime is effectively nil. Multi-GPU is dead (and no GPUs use 5.0 anyway), there are no other PCIe 5.0 expansion cards, and PCIe 5.0 SSDs are still rare enough that the two 5.0 M.2 slots off the CPU are going to be enough for almost anyone.

I wouldn't say that, perhaps the chipset after 800 will get PCIe5.0, when Gen5-SSD are common place and they need a broader connection to the CPU. Multi-GPu never had anythin to do with chipset-lanes after AM3+ and S1366.

The underlying problem is that Prom21 is a shit chipset.

I fully agree with you for the reason you explained. The two chips take up quite a lot of space, too and you don't get nearly as much connectivity out of them as of Z790. Intel has much more experience designing chipsets than Asmedia does.

Prom21 is a consumer chipset, and it's fine for that. One x16 for graphics and two x4 for storage from the CPU and another 8 lanes coming from the chipset are more than enough for any home build.

It is not that 8 lanes Gen4 plus up to 8 lanes Gen3 or up to 8 SATA is so bad (I could do with 4-8 lanes Gen4 more for PCIe Slots), it is the waste of space and resources needed to achieve that.

Thats interesting. Pretty much every product that uses that chip is advertised for "up to 40Gbps". If the technical max is 32Gbps, then saying "up to 40Gbps" is straight up lying. How are they allowed to get away with that?

It's hard finding benchmarks to determine that, but since PCIe3.0x4 maxes out at ~3.5GB/s (which should be 3.9GB/s in theory), I would bet TB4 is limited by that since there ist no Gen4-controller. PCIe Gen3 to Gen5 should even be more effective with 128b/130b-coding compared to 64b/66b on TB3/4. It would be interesting to see if CPUs with integrated TB4 or USB4 on ASM4242 can achieve more than 3.5GB/s.

No where good to put that many on the MB, and nvme drives throttle too much anyway. I wish they would keep 1-2 for people who don't need more than one main drive for the pc and then remove all sata and replace those ports with 6 or more u.3 ports. Go back to that 2.5 form factor for nvmes and allow higher capacities and no throttling from the extra heat sinking capacity. U.3 allows sata through it anyway so technically they aren't losing capability for older, slower drives, but rather replacing far outdated ports with ones that have higher speed and more functionality.

I'm all for going backt to 2.5" or even 3.5", not wasting so much space on mainboards and getting better cooling, but I don't see U.3 as the solution. U.2/U.3 has a pretty big connector on the mainboard, as big as 2xSATA, and it will be hard to place more than 4 of those next to each other at the edge of the board as replacement of SATA. The cables are pretty thick and stiff, to. Plus, I don't know if U.3 ist up to Gen5. It would be better to have a smaller connector like Oculink with up to Gen4x8 or Gen5 in the future, connecting up to two SSD per port.

Dont worry they need those for rebranded X670/B650/A620s

Read the artice again, 800 is a rebrand of 600 with USB4 via ASM4242. AMD is wasting denominations like crazy.

I doubt the truth in this rumour, though. Ryzen 8000 with Phoenix APU already has USB4 inside an there allready are AM5-boards with B650E-chipset that can utilize that. I would bet that Ryzen 9000 upgrades it's USB 10Gb/s-Ports to USB4 to make seperate controllers obsolete.

 

[AusWolf]

Dont worry they need those for rebranded X670/B650/A620s

This is the rebranded X670/B650/A620.

What a boneheaded move. It'd be one thing if usb4 were now being built into the chipset, but to mandate everyone must lose 4 pcie lanes to an extra chip that only a few will need...

We've got these things called "slots" for a reason, they can be used for anything. No need to sacrifice one person's use case for another, everyone can get exactly what they need.

I'm not arguing against mb manufacturers building this stuff in (though I, personally, think it's dumb). But the choice should be left up to them, because as long as there's enough different models, it also means the choice is left up to the consumer.

I specifically looked for an x670e board w/o usb4 and w/o an overload of m.2 slots, but instead had several pcie slots because I knew that would leave me the most future proof. (Funny that it also ended up one of the cheapest models, because no money was wasted on the unnecessary.)

While I agree with you, I see the move here. Rebranding an existing product as something new in hopes of boosting sales isn't unheard of, especially with AMD (HD 7970 -> R9 280X).

 

[Tigerfox]

I specifically looked for an x670e board w/o usb4 and w/o an overload of m.2 slots, but instead had several pcie slots because I knew that would leave me the most future proof. (Funny that it also ended up one of the cheapest models, because no money was wasted on the unnecessary.)

I did, to, but would have wanted 6xSATA, too. Can't have both, though. There are very few AM5 boards with more than one x4-Slot, none with 2 x4 and one x1 and none with 2 true x4 and 6xSATA at the same time.

While I agree with you, I see the move here. Branding an existing product as something new in hopes of boosting sales isn't unheard of, especially with AMD (HD 7970 -> R9 280X).

You don't have to look that far back, just look at Ryzen 8000 mobile. Same silicon as Ryzen 7000, just optimized BIOSes/firmware and unleashed NPU.