AMD Ryzen 5 4400G Desktop "Renoir" 6-core APU Put Through 3DMark11

[Darmok N Jalad]

I suspect they stayed with Vega because the architecture is more proven, and these chips will likely go to OEMs. Recall the struggles with RDNA at launch, and that would have been a tough sell to get design wins in laptops and desktops.

 

[Punkenjoy]

Can it play Witcher 3 (which is now a 5y old game) at 1080p/high? Probably once again not.

We won't see decent APU performance before DDR5.

Yes, bandwidth is still the limiting factor of performance on APU and why faster ram scale so much on these platform. I suspect that we might see bigger APU faster on laptops but we aren't still not there yet.

The main advantage of DDR5 for APU and large number of core CPU will be the switch from 2 64 bit channel to 4 32 bit channel (They compensate that by increasing the Burst Line so that the memory return a full line cache in each burst.). Having more channel will help as the memory controller will be able to spread the load from all the cores APU. Also DDR5 will increase bandwidth by 1.36x at same MT( so DDR5 3200MT will have 1.36x more bandwidth than DDR4 3200MT)

DDR3 and DDR4 were mostly focussed on reducing power for mobile but DDR5 standard have been completely rethink to maximise bandwidth. There is so much change vs previous iteration that it could have been better to just name the thing something else. Another big change will be the same bank refresh instead of having to refresh all the bank at the same time. This with more bank will increase the memory performance by quite a lot.

That should free enough performance for faster APU. I still think they will be low-end product and that won't change until they are able to stack memory directly on the die or something.

But right now, the mind of people is APU = Low end, Dedicated GPU = high end. And that is not easy task to acheive. As long as you have dedicated GPU that outperform APU, people will still think dedicated GPU are better, even if theses new APU beat them. And i am not talking about the few % of gamer that will inform themselves but the masses.

You already see that on laptop where people get cheap MX2*0 gpu where a proper setup APU(Dual Channel ....) outperform them.

 

[randompeep]

Same

ASUS Radeon RX 460 STRIX OC 4 GB Review

AMD's Radeon RX 460 promises entry level gaming for the masses, with pricing starting at $109. We are reviewing the ASUS RX 460 STRIX OC, which comes with 4 GB instead of 2 GB and an additional 6-pin power connector, at a $140 price point.

www.techpowerup.com

Almost 1000 shaders, 4GB for ~$140, est. 3% inflation per year (very conservative) and that's 12% more. Cards in that price range are this https://www.newegg.ca/asus-geforce-gt-1030-ph-gt1030-o2g/p/N82E16814126209 (384 shaders)

I fix up pc's as a hobby for freinds and family, many are/were using systems with radeon 6850 and earlier gen and equiv nvidia cards. I remember updating more than a few to windows 10 and having no drivers or driver issues. Try and find a current (within 1 year) gpu in the $100 ish range now.

Yeah, RX460 brand new at that price would be luxury for those who know real value of the GPU products.
Here in Romania the best deal on the brand new market with 100 bucks budget would be a Sapphire RX550 4GB (which is in fact decent if you play older games like me) at ~95$.

HD6850 was the stalker of its era!! I was rocking a HD7790 in 2013/2014 and it was mad quiet & fast too. One downside for current games would be the 1/2 gigs of VRAM.

The problem I'm aiming is not actually the brand new market with the lack of interest in what is supposed to be a budget GPU (75-170$ range IMO)...it would be the fact that used GPUs keep skyrocketing their prices to like 60-70% of their MSRPs (4y old architecture, keep this in mind) and till february/march next year, we'll see pain in the ass for the used GPU market [if you really know the stable prices]. Last year this time I got a STRIX GTX 960 2GB for 50$ it was one of the best deals ever.

With a bit of luck, everyone should find a GTX 1650 used for 100$. I saw this in Romania before COVID bullshit hit the stocks.

Screw the inflation, it's lasting how much they want. On the other hand, under 170 bucks is what we should pay for 1080p 60fps gaming, but they're both milking the cow (AMD/nVidia). And I'd say around 250 bucks for 2k 60. The cost of the technology may be higher, but now they keep releasing the 'next generation' in sync with next gen consoles. And back in the day it wasn't like days. Marketing moves, consumers got the money...and they got the milk.

Yeah, RX460 brand new at that price would be luxury for those who know real value of the GPU products.
Here in Romania the best deal on the brand new market with 100 bucks budget would be a Sapphire RX550 4GB (which is in fact decent if you play older games like me) at ~95$.

HD6850 was the stalker of its era!! I was rocking a HD7790 in 2013/2014 and it was mad quiet & fast too. One downside for current games would be the 1/2 gigs of VRAM.

The problem I'm aiming is not actually the brand new market with the lack of interest in what is supposed to be a budget GPU (75-170$ range IMO)...it would be the fact that used GPUs keep skyrocketing their prices to like 60-70% of their MSRPs (4y old architecture, keep this in mind) and till february/march next year, we'll see pain in the ass for the used GPU market [if you really know the stable prices]. Last year this time I got a STRIX GTX 960 2GB for 50$ it was one of the best deals ever.

With a bit of luck, everyone should find a GTX 1650 used for 100$. I saw this in Romania before COVID bullshit hit the stocks.

Screw the inflation, it's lasting how much they want. On the other hand, under 170 bucks is what we should pay for 1080p 60fps gaming, but they're both milking the cow (AMD/nVidia). And I'd say around 250 bucks for 2k 60. The cost of the technology may be higher, but now they keep releasing the 'next generation' in sync with next gen consoles. And back in the day it wasn't like days. Marketing moves, consumers got the money...and they got the milk.

it wasn't like this*

You already see that on laptop where people get cheap MX2*0 gpu where a proper setup APU(Dual Channel ....) outperform them.

I bet you'll find on every store here and there a guy who came to the IT shop with his 'tech-guru' friend who still stands for the 'AMD gets too hot on desktops, so we're taking AMD out the laptop side of things from start'. Or the 'Intel is recommended for gaming' without realising how good the perspective was almost 10 years ago vs how dumb sounds now. Also, little they know their mainstream, under 500$ brand new laptop could be capable of way more if it was running in a Dual Channel config (as you said). They keep comparing to their friends gaming laptops so they jump on the wave without 30 minutes of googling around.

Also the laptops area have even bigger gaps talking from the GPU perspective...it's like a few Vegas on the recent Ryzens, a few nvidia extra low-end thinked with the Skyrim/GTA V @900p in head and boom the expensive GTX1650/GTX1660/RTX2060 models.

 

[GoldenX]

I suspect they stayed with Vega because the architecture is more proven, and these chips will likely go to OEMs. Recall the struggles with RDNA at launch, and that would have been a tough sell to get design wins in laptops and desktops.

This sounds like a reasonable excuse.
I hope they do better than just increase clock speeds once they move to 7nm Vega 8s.

 

[Dante Uchiha]

Looks like we've got enough bandwidth now:

 

[evernessince]

gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years

AMD got more then a 50% performance per watt uplift for the Vega iGPU on their new mobile parts. Have you even seen what new Vega can do?

 

[cucker tarlson]

AMD got more then a 50% performance per watt uplift for the Vega iGPU on their new mobile parts. Have you even seen what new Vega can do?

end performance any better ?

 

[gravel]

There are r9 290 to 50 euro ....!!

 

[cucker tarlson]

There are r9 290 to 50 euro ....!!

yes,but a 250w 7 year old card is not exactly a good subsitute for a low power igpu

 

[gravel]

yes but so much power for the price

 

[cucker tarlson]

oui mais tellement de puissance pour le prix

plz speak english

yes,a lot of power for the price,but like I said,it's a big,old space heater.

damn,French is funny

 

[gravel]

Wait Ddr5 will make a big difference for IGP
The 3200g Overclocking easily at 1700 mhz...4400g won't make much difference

 

[randompeep]

Wait Ddr5 will make a big difference for IGP
The 3200g Overclocking easily at 1700 mhz...4400g won't make much difference

In my opinion, people do IGP OC is just for demonstration purposes. 10% performance bump at low settings is not something remarcable. But we can't say APUs are not evolving gen by gen...

Anyways, those 'next-gen' AMD Renoir will get little to no attention if the 3100/3300X AMD CPUs sells how I see them go in and out of stocks. Eventually they'll get discounted if Intel does it on their side too. As someone mentioned earlier, the best performance comes with a decent dedicated graphics from the used market. RX580 and up would be the standard nowdays

For someone building and ITX 7nm based system, yeah it's gonna be worth the extra cash. But for someone with a regulare system case, what's the deal ?

 

[SL2]

For someone building and ITX 7nm based system, yeah it's gonna be worth the extra cash. But for someone with a regulare system case, what's the deal ?

It still has up to 16 threads, people here seem to forget that. This is also perhaps the very reason why the IGP isn't beefier than it is: CPU core count is more important overall.
Edit: I thought you compared it to older APU's.

 

[Dante Uchiha]

AMD got more then a 50% performance per watt uplift for the Vega iGPU on their new mobile parts. Have you even seen what new Vega can do?

This is a benefit of vega's transition to 7nm, renoir manages to hold a clock 60% higher than picasso with TDP 15~25w, there was no change on architecture side. Support for 3200Mhz+ memory also influenced**.

 

[$ReaPeR$]

AMD is fighting Intel for the OEM market, that's why they are putting a smaller gpu in the new apus while putting also more cores. Gaming is irrelevant for now, just marketing. In the next 5 years.. maybe it will be more relevant, we will see. Oh, that's also why Intel is upping is gpu game. Gaming is irrelevant, media streaming and multiple monitors are the whole point in the OEM market.

 

[watzupken]

In my opinion, people do IGP OC is just for demonstration purposes. 10% performance bump at low settings is not something remarcable. But we can't say APUs are not evolving gen by gen...

Not in my case. I run my 3400G with overclocked IGP for gaming. Agree that 10% don't seem a lot, but when you are gaming on a budget, every FPS counts. In the case of APU, increasing RAM speed is more beneficial due to very limited memory bandwidth shared between CPU and GPU.

 

[B-Real]

gonna be the same as 2200g/2400g if they're still using vega
zero progress for 2.5 years

The Intel-NV fanboy said it. Rekt.

 

[cucker tarlson]

The Intel-NV fanboy said it. Rekt.

post 32.missed it apparently.

 

[ARF]

The Intel-NV fanboy said it. Rekt.

It's pretty much the infinitely large opposite of zero

 

[cucker tarlson]

It's pretty much the infinitely large opposite of zero

View attachment 158713

1.we're talking desktop,it's in the title,in the op,and in my post
2.3700u with vega 10 is hardly any faster than 3500u with vega 8 here,just 8% for 25% cu count increase.this is clearly a bottleneck somewhere else.mx250 is not 1.6x faster than vega 10.hwunboxed once again spin you like they always do.

not even in their own tests in that same very game at same settings it's 20% faster than vega 8 on 2500u

Spoiler: lol