AMD Ryzen 7 7700

[W1zzard]

There is a typo in the conclusion on the lists

you mean 13700K ?

I mean to say "against the 7700X and also against various Intel offerings"

 

[AusWolf]

I can safely say that this has nothing to do with the CPU. And it is mainly caused by the motherboard or other hardware or in addition perhaps also a wrong setting (in windows or the bios).

I have this hardware: Intel i3-3240 @ 3.392GHz + 4GB RAM @1600MHZ single channel + NVIDIA GTX 650 1GB + EVO 850 500GB

The BIOS takes about 13 seconds, but once GRUB is loaded it takes 2.9 seconds to login according to systemd (on this weak hardware). This means that the operating system itself only needs 2.9 seconds to go to the login. And that's systemd, which isn't the fastest init system in Linux. S6 init is the fastest, about twice as fast as systemd. So if Clear Linux were to switch to S6 for the init my entire operating system could boot in less than 2 seconds. (on my weak hardware)

You see what my hardware is so that's pretty spectacular. Void Linux also has extremely fast boot times.
If you're using Windows, there's an option that uses hibernation techniques to make your computer boot faster.

It's not about booting into the OS. It's connected to the initial memory training before even the POST screen appears.

 

[W1zzard]

I can safely say that this has nothing to do with the CPU. And it is mainly caused by the motherboard or other hardware or in addition perhaps also a wrong setting (in windows or the bios).

For Zen 4 specifically, the "boot time" thing relates to a time spent at a black screen, before even the BIOS post output becomes visible.
From my original Zen4 reviews: "To clarify: after a clean system shutdown, without loss of power, when you press the power button you're still looking at a black screen for 30 seconds, before the BIOS logo appears."

Imagine your parents press the button on their PC and nothing happens for 30 seconds, they've probably already typed your number on their phone

 

[Kaleid]

For Zen 4 specifically, the "boot time" thing relates to a time spent at a black screen, before even the BIOS post output becomes visible.
From my original Zen4 reviews: "To clarify: after a clean system shutdown, without loss of power, when you press the power button you're still looking at a black screen for 30 seconds, before the BIOS logo appears."

Imagine your parents press the button on their PC and nothing happens for 30 seconds, they've probably already typed your number on their phone

Just to add my experience here again, I've never waited this long. Perhaps because I use expo memory and/or bios maturity.
This was an initial concern before purchase so I've happy that it has turned out to be a normal experience, just like previous gen.

 

[SchumannFrequency]

For Zen 4 specifically, the "boot time" thing relates to a time spent at a black screen, before even the BIOS post output becomes visible.
From my original Zen4 reviews: "To clarify: after a clean system shutdown, without loss of power, when you press the power button you're still looking at a black screen for 30 seconds, before the BIOS logo appears."

Imagine your parents press the button on their PC and nothing happens for 30 seconds, they've probably already typed your number on their phone

Asus X670E boot time too long

Hi, I am have an issue where my boot up time for my new PC is very slow. i know that the first time boot up when i built the PC is long but this is getting ridiculas. My old PC would start up in half the time. i have the following install: MOBO; Asus crosshair x670E CPU; AMD 7050x RAM; G.Skill...

rog.asus.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/ASRock/comments/yysh0m

EDIT #2 (Solved?): Apparently this is normal AM5 behavior when EXPO profile settings is enabled, as the memory has to retrain itself on every boot/restart...etc. AsRock Support and other users with diff boards have confirmed this to be true(unfortunately). AMD/Board partners might be able to speed up this retraining time with bios updates in the future.

If you don't use an overclocking profile for the DDR5 RAM you shouldn't run into the problem, correct?

 

[wNotyarD]

@W1zzard will there be a review on the R9 7900?

 

[W1zzard]

@W1zzard will there be a review on the R9 7900?

Yes, soon

 

[wNotyarD]

Yes, soon

Thank you for your time and dedication.

 

[AusWolf]

Asus X670E boot time too long

Hi, I am have an issue where my boot up time for my new PC is very slow. i know that the first time boot up when i built the PC is long but this is getting ridiculas. My old PC would start up in half the time. i have the following install: MOBO; Asus crosshair x670E CPU; AMD 7050x RAM; G.Skill...

rog.asus.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/ASRock/comments/yysh0m

EDIT #2 (Solved?): Apparently this is normal AM5 behavior when EXPO profile settings is enabled, as the memory has to retrain itself on every boot/restart...etc. AsRock Support and other users with diff boards have confirmed this to be true(unfortunately). AMD/Board partners might be able to speed up this retraining time with bios updates in the future.

If you don't use an overclocking profile for the DDR5 RAM you shouldn't run into the problem, correct?

If you use bone standard JEDEC, your POST time will be shorter, but still not as short as on a non-AM5 system. What matters is your memory configuration in general. You'll POST quicker with 2 sticks of single rank memory than with 4 sticks, or dual rank.

Just to add my experience here again, I've never waited this long. Perhaps because I use expo memory and/or bios maturity.
This was an initial concern before purchase so I've happy that it has turned out to be a normal experience, just like previous gen.

Or maybe you just don't notice it because you're used to it like I am.

Seriously, whether I see the POST screen 5 seconds, or 25 seconds after I press the power button is kind of a "first world problem", imo. If this is one's biggest concern in life, then one is very lucky.

 

[Kaleid]

If you use bone standard JEDEC, your POST time will be shorter, but still not as short as on a non-AM5 system. What matters is your memory configuration in general. You'll POST quicker with 2 sticks of single rank memory than with 4 sticks, or dual rank.


Or maybe you just don't notice it because you're used to it like I am.

Seriously, whether I see the POST screen 5 seconds, or 25 seconds after I press the power button is kind of a "first world problem", imo. If this is one's biggest concern in life, then one is very lucky.

Nope, I've read numerous times about long boot times and apart from a few times with earlier bios I've never really experienced them at all. I don't always have the patience for slower processes either, those things can obviously be irritating especially since one expects improvements.

 

[PenguinBelly]

Platform cost is high but not more so than Intel's DDR5 offerings. Also you need to consider that many B660 and B760 boards will cripple the K-series CPUs due to their inadequate power delivery.

Both company's DDR5 boards are expensive. I do not know what they can do about it, though.

 

[Arco]

Strange.... Just reviewed the B650E it was quicker than others, but not 10 seconds as your claiming. Is this is from a off state or sleep mode?

I'm not quite sure how these could be so different, but memory configurations as endless. My gut says either you have it as ASUS version of context restore enabled, which could be by the fault now (for all I know ) with the newest bios or you're just coming out of sleep mode (waking up the computer) and computers actually not off off.

It's not that I don't believe you totally, I just think it's odd and not the norm.

I'd do some testing. But I got my new GPU to install!

Yeah, it's a full restart. I'd have to poke around in the bios to see if any memory training options are available. I have it on 6000@CL36 Expo and I haven't really messed around with the bios.

 

[SchumannFrequency]

Nope, I've read numerous times about long boot times and apart from a few times with earlier bios I've never really experienced them at all. I don't always have the patience for slower processes either, those things can obviously be irritating especially since one expects improvements.

If you measure it with a timer, what is the time between when you press the power button and see the login screen?

Faster RAM impacts AMD performance more than Intel.
I can understand that AMD wants the motherboard to find the tightest timings for the RAM.

But the total boot process to the login screen shouldn't take more than 20 seconds in my opinion.

What (also) bothers me about this 7000 generation is the Microsoft Pluton built into the CPU.

As a BSD/Linux I've never seen an open source user ever request this kind of feature from AMD. The next purchase will be an Intel Raptor Lake.

 

[AusWolf]

Nope, I've read numerous times about long boot times and apart from a few times with earlier bios I've never really experienced them at all. I don't always have the patience for slower processes either, those things can obviously be irritating especially since one expects improvements.

That's strange. What RAM do you have? Is EXPO/XMP enabled? I've just timed my system (in my profile). It takes 28 seconds between me pressing the power button and the monitor getting a signal. Still, it doesn't bother me, though. I grew up with a Celeron MMX 300 that took maybe 5 minutes to boot into Windows 98, and ran Half-Life at 15 fps. It's certainly an improvement over that.

 

[Arco]

That's strange. What RAM do you have? Is EXPO/XMP enabled? I've just timed my system (in my profile). It takes 28 seconds between me pressing the power button and the monitor getting a signal. Still, it doesn't bother me, though. I grew up with a Celeron MMX 300 that took maybe 5 minutes to boot into Windows 98, and ran Half-Life at 15 fps. It's certainly an improvement over that.

You forgot the 10 minutes it took to keep it somewhat smooth and start any programs.

Don't miss that!

 

[Kaleid]

That's strange. What RAM do you have? Is EXPO/XMP enabled? I've just timed my system (in my profile). It takes 28 seconds between me pressing the power button and the monitor getting a signal. Still, it doesn't bother me, though. I grew up with a Celeron MMX 300 that took maybe 5 minutes to boot into Windows 98, and ran Half-Life at 15 fps. It's certainly an improvement over that.

I just read the Guru3d 7900 review which stated 2-3 minutes extra the first time or so. Don't think it has ever taken so long. I use expo 1 setting with

Corsair 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL36 Vengeance - CMK32GX5M2D6000Z36​

 

[AusWolf]

I just read the Guru3d 7900 review which stated 2-3 minutes extra the first time or so. Don't think it has ever taken so long. I use expo 1 setting with

Corsair 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL36 Vengeance - CMK32GX5M2D6000Z36​

I have the same RAM. I never had the 2-3 minute first boot thing, either. Even my first boot was the same 28 seconds.

You forgot the 10 minutes it took to keep it somewhat smooth and start any programs.

Don't miss that!

Very true!

 

[brutlern]

Well, just goes to show you how dumb the maxed out Wattage on the X CPUs was.

50W savings in MT, 20C lower temps and only 5% performance loss in worst case scenarios.

Well, they needed all the performance they could get to try and beat Intel in gaming scenarios, and claim the performance crown (short lived until de 13900K came out). It was purely for marketing reasons. These new CPUs are basically the X with ECO mode forced on. Some reviewers actually noticed how good the X cpu's were with ECO mode, but at launch, ECO mode was not yet available for review, it was only later added in the new firmware by mobo manufacturers, and thus it was rarely discussed, let alone benchmarked, on day 1 reviews. And once the hype of the new CPU's wore off, nobody bothered to retest all CPU's with ECO mode.

 

[Pumper]

Well, they needed all the performance they could get to try and beat Intel in gaming scenarios, and claim the performance crown (short lived until de 13900K came out). It was purely for marketing reasons. These new CPUs are basically the X with ECO mode forced on. Some reviewers actually noticed how good the X cpu's were with ECO mode, but at launch, ECO mode was not yet available for review, it was only later added in the new firmware by mobo manufacturers, and thus it was rarely discussed, let alone benchmarked, on day 1 reviews. And once the hype of the new CPU's wore off, nobody bothered to retest all CPU's with ECO mode.

Not really, as the higher wattage makes no difference for game performance. It's only relevant in MT.

 

[ir_cow]

I just read the Guru3d 7900 review which stated 2-3 minutes extra the first time or so. Don't think it has ever taken so long. I use expo 1 setting with

Corsair 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL36 Vengeance - CMK32GX5M2D6000Z36​

2-3 min boot is for 4x DIMMs. The ASUS X670E Hero takes forever it seems with 4x 16GB.

 

[Kaleid]

2-3 min boot is for 4x DIMMs. The ASUS X670E Hero takes forever it seems with 4x 16GB.

Ah, can you run them at full speed? I'm under the impression that it leads to lower speeds, and that it's better with 2x32GB instead.

 

[ir_cow]

Ah, can you run them at full speed? I'm under the impression that it leads to lower speeds, and that it's better with 2x32GB instead.

Depends on the motherboard really to get up to 6200. The Hero 4x16 tops at 5800. 6000 boots but isn't stable. Mind you AMD official support is DDR5-3600 for any 4 slot configuration. Aka...only supported on paper.

2x64 is quicker to boot and seems to have overall better stability.

 

[KrazyT]

Its not a bug, its the way it has been designed. memory training of the sub-timings gives a perf boost.

Ok, i undestand the whole thing.
But why it has to be done every times ?
I'm asking because the silicon on the RAM doesn't change every time.
It's like an OC of a processor, when you got the good timings and the stability you want, it's ok for good, you don't have to re-do the OC stuff again every lauch.

 

[ir_cow]

But why it has to be done every times ?.

Memory training always happens on AMD and Intel when you boot a system. Its part of the start sequence. Just that AMD has included more training for DDR5 which is why it takes longer.

 

[KrazyT]

Ok thanks for the explainations (is the correct word ?)
Didn't know the memory was trained evey times.
30s booting sequence will worry me for sure, nevertheless theses littles 7600 and 7700 are good enough for me !
Good in games, good in Photoshop, and runs pretty cool ...