AMD Ryzen 7 8700G Loves Memory Overclocking, which Vastly Favors its iGPU Performance

[btarunr]

Entry level discrete GPUs are in trouble, as the first reviews of the AMD Ryzen 7 8700G desktop APU show that its iGPU is capable of beating the discrete GeForce GTX 1650, which means it should also beat the Radeon RX 6500 XT that offers comparable performance. Based on the 4 nm "Hawk Point" monolithic silicon, the 8700G packs the powerful Radeon 780M iGPU based on the latest RDNA3 graphics architecture, with as many as 12 compute units, worth 768 stream processors, 48 TMUs, and an impressive 32 ROPs; and full support for the DirectX 12 Ultimate API requirements, including ray tracing. A review by a Chinese tech publication on BiliBili showed that it's possible for an overclocked 8700G to beat a discrete GTX 1650 in 3DMark TimeSpy.

It's important to note here that both the iGPU engine clock and the APU's memory frequency are increased. The reviewer set the iGPU engine clock to 3400 MHz, up from its 2900 MHz reference speed. It turns out that much like its predecessor, the 5700G "Cezanne," the new 8700G "Hawk Point" features a more advanced memory controller than its chiplet-based counterpart (in this case the Ryzen 7000 "Raphael"). The reviewer succeeded in a DDR5-8400 memory overclock. A combination of the two resulted in a 17% increase in the Time Spy score over stock speeds; which is how the chip manages to beat the discrete GTX 1650 (comparable performance to the RX 6500 XT at 1080p).



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[Vayra86]

Nice. Good times ahead for the Deck 2

 

[Macro Device]

its iGPU is capable of beating the discrete GeForce GTX 1650

Being 7 outta 3848 points ahead != beating.

hould also beat the Radeon RX 6500 XT

How exactly? 6500 XT is about a quarter faster than the GTX 1650.

Anyway, DDR5-8400 + 8700G + whatever cooling necessary for such OC screams "you can buy an RX 6600, probably even an XT, for cheaper than that and get 3 times more FPS."

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

I would love to see something like this with something like Dual Channel LPCAMM so it has double the bus width vs SODIMM while being in roughly the same footprint. This will help both CPU and GPU as there will be a lot less contention on the memory bus.

Perhaps the next gen handhelds could have this layout to remove the Memory bandwidth limit and we are then purely just looking at Raster/power limits.

 

[Nordic]

This has been true since the first APU's. I saw big gains when using faster memory on my A10-5800k. The more interesting information here is not that performance increases, but the total performance with overclocked memory.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Hardware Unboxed tested it vs the RX 6500 XT.

How exactly? 6500 XT is about a quarter faster than the GTX 1650.

See video above.

 

[Macro Device]

Hardware Unboxed tested it vs the RX 6500 XT.

See video above.

5700G? They're gotta be kidding. This is a PCI-e 3.0 CPU. 6500 XT only works as intended on PCI-e 4.0.

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

Hardware Unboxed tested it vs the RX 6500 XT.

See video above.

What I think people need to take away from this is when recommending people with a budget to go i3/5 with a low end graphics card initally then upgrade the GPU when they can, they are far better off now just getting the 8700G and then pairinig it with a decent graphics card a couple of months down the line!

HWUnboxed was saying go for a 7600x and something like a 6600xt for 100 dollars more that just the 8700g, but for some people that increase may be 10-20% of their total budget.

 

[Nostras]

5700G? They're gotta be kidding. This is a PCI-e 3.0 CPU. 6500 XT only works as intended on PCI-e 4.0.

This is done on purpose, they also use the 12100F as a "reasonable" example of a cheap entry level CPU with PCI-E 4.0.
Steve just has a thing for shitting on the 6500XT (and for a good reason lmao).

 

[Macro Device]

Steve just has a thing for shitting on the 6500XT (and for a good reason lmao).

I don't think you can kill something that's dead already but fair enough.

 

[TheLostSwede]

5700G? They're gotta be kidding. This is a PCI-e 3.0 CPU. 6500 XT only works as intended on PCI-e 4.0.

Did you watch the entire segment?

 

[SlumpLord3000]

Just slap some x3D cache on top while you're at it

 

[Nostras]

Just slap some x3D cache on top while you're at it

They had to reduce the cache to fit the iGPU, you think they can fit the X3D cache?

 

[Hxx]

Yeah I’ll be picking this one up in a board ram combo for my latest APU build . Hopefully MC will offer a combo deal later this year . I am hoping we start seeing some good APU enclosures . So far there aren’t many options

 

[HD64G]

mini-PCs and small-factor PCs need this level of performance today more than ever before.

 

[Macro Device]

Did you watch the entire segment?

Now I did and I'm doubling down on my opinion. "8700G is comparable to 6500 XT gaming-wise" is a statement and a half. I'm used to AMD spouting insane babble but that's insane even by their standards. 8700G is no match for real dGPUs. Even the most disgusting ones like 6500 XT.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Now I did and I'm doubling down on my opinion. "8700G is comparable to 6500 XT gaming-wise" is a statement and a half. I'm used to AMD spouting insane babble but that's insane even by their standards. 8700G is no match for real dGPUs. Even the most disgusting ones like 6500 XT.

Seemed to depend on the game and the system config from what I saw.

 

[catulitechup]

@W1zzard

Good article but review in the house, when*?

*can test 8500G too because dont appear reviews about this cpu and if can compare with ryzen 5 4600G/5600G will be great too, thanks

 

[Random_User]

"you can buy an RX 6600, probably even an XT, for cheaper than that and get 3 times more FPS."

You are judging from the perspective of theoretical "US avarage Joe", where HW is near it's MSRP or lower. 95% of the world doesn't have this luxury. Many countries still have a crypto/AI premium tax on even decade years old used dGPUs.

For example here the cheapest non-XT RX6600 costs $260. And the APUs used to be within MSRP, maybe with slight $100-150 premium over MSRP, or over US/EU retail price+VAT included. Have it own "VGA shape PCB" and cooler, and it would end up gauged AF as well.

Otherwise, yeah, it's reasonable enough.

They had to reduce the cache to fit the iGPU, you think they can fit the X3D cache?

How that is preventing them from adding cash vertically? They have cut cash because it used much planar area. I guess it's still possible, by shaving some vertical surface, and then add/clone the same L3 cash area straight on top.
And the most viable reason I can come up with, is not because they reduced the space already, but because it will require additional R&D, exclusively for Hawk Point/mobile parts. And they won't do that, because the only real reason why 8700G and X3D SKUs exist for desktop Ryzen, is due to excess of binned chips, that cannot be used for EPYC/Threadripper and laptops (in case of APU).

Now I did and I'm doubling down on my opinion. "8700G is comparable to 6500 XT gaming-wise" is a statement and a half. I'm used to AMD spouting insane babble but that's insane even by their standards. 8700G is no match for real dGPUs. Even the most disgusting ones like 6500 XT.

It's still very close. So much close, that people do not care any more. They can sacrifice few settings in video options, in order to have compact enefficient system, which being cooled with just CPU cooler. And it doesn't require additional ATX 8pin cable.
Even if it can be OCed a bit for better results a the expense of higher power consumption, it still would consume less than dGPU any way.

Many would like to go this route. And as I've mentioned above, any dGPU in many parts of the world, still have ridiculous gouging tax. Even the anemic RX 6400 XT costs $173. Pair it with $255 7600X, or $242 13400F, and it's already horrible investement. I use local prices, because they are real "unrealistic" ones, and this is the only way to buy stuff.
Don't get me wrong. I don't claim these prices are what they supposed to be, or recommended by vendors, for their primary region of US. It shouldn't be this way. But alas, they are.

 

[Al Chafai]

It sounds exciting and all, but when you think about it. An AM5 board + 330$ APU + Fast DDR5 RAM make this whole thing pointless, especially how the old APUs were geared towards budget consumers that cannot afford to get a discreet GPU.
As an alternative budget gaming setup, a 5600 with B550 and some cheapo DDR4 RAM pair those with a used midrange GPU like the RX 6600 and enjoy your games with good graphics and frame rates.

 

[Macro Device]

For example here the cheapest non-XT RX6600 costs $260. And the APUs used to be within MSRP, maybe with slight $100-150 premium over MSRP

You contradict yourself here. $260 is far less than MSRP+100 bucks. But you're willing to overpay 125 USD for an APU rather than 25 USD for a dGPU. Regardless of VAT, retail overpricing and other shenanigans, i3-12100F + 16 GB moderately cheap DDR4 + RX 6600 XT is give or take the same price as 8700G + 32* GB DDR5, usually even cheaper. So your ONLY reasons to prefer 8700G could be:

A. You want your PC to be incredibly small.
B. Your electricity bills are ridiculously high and you want to save money in the long term somehow (kinda moot because dGPUs are configurable + you can limit your FPS to whatever value you like via in-game options or some external tool like Rivatuner).
C. You are a company owner and you want to make your PCs as simple as possible to maximise your business efficiency.

Other than that, APUs are not and have never been budget friendly. Similar gaming performance has always been achievable by purchasing a much cheaper CPU+dGPU system.

*As the 16 GB RAM buffer is enough for 1080p gaming at low settings, it's not enough when some RAM is shared to the iGPU. 32 GB are a necessity if you don't want your RAM to become a bottleneck in recent games.

Not to mention the 8700G's iGPU is RX 6400 to 6500 XT level of performance, meaning 720p30 Low-Med rather than 1080p60 High experience. RX 6600, on the other hand, is a proper 1080p60 GPU if you don't hunt max settings. RX 6600 XT (which is closer in terms of $$$) is even more of a proper gaming GPU. 12100F is fast enough to make use of such GPUs. Of course, it's not ideal, especially if you're a competitive gamer (i7-12700 + GTX 1650 Super it is then; might be more expensive but not by much) but if your only concern is money then 8700G makes negative sense.

P.S. I am talking purely gaming performance. Doubling i3-12100's core count is mighty useful in professional applications. And I am not sure if 8700G is pretty there but none expert so won't shoot claims.

Many countries still have a crypto/AI premium tax on even decade years old used dGPUs.

I checked what we have got.

Spoiler: CPU+dGPU system. $700 in total, VAT included.

Spoiler: APU system. 8700G is not in stock yet, used a similarly priced 7700X. $835 in total, VAT included.

 

[marios15]

You contradict yourself here. $260 is far less than MSRP+100 bucks. But you're willing to overpay 125 USD for an APU rather than 25 USD for a dGPU. Regardless of VAT, retail overpricing and other shenanigans, i3-12100F + 16 GB moderately cheap DDR4 + RX 6600 XT is give or take the same price as 8700G + 32* GB DDR5, usually even cheaper. So your ONLY reasons to prefer 8700G could be:

A. You want your PC to be incredibly small.
B. Your electricity bills are ridiculously high and you want to save money in the long term somehow (kinda moot because dGPUs are configurable + you can limit your FPS to whatever value you like via in-game options or some external tool like Rivatuner).
C. You are a company owner and you want to make your PCs as simple as possible to maximise your business efficiency.

Other than that, APUs are not and have never been budget friendly. Similar gaming performance has always been achievable by purchasing a much cheaper CPU+dGPU system.

*As the 16 GB RAM buffer is enough for 1080p gaming at low settings, it's not enough when some RAM is shared to the iGPU. 32 GB are a necessity if you don't want your RAM to become a bottleneck in recent games.

Not to mention the 8700G's iGPU is RX 6400 to 6500 XT level of performance, meaning 720p30 Low-Med rather than 1080p60 High experience. RX 6600, on the other hand, is a proper 1080p60 GPU if you don't hunt max settings. RX 6600 XT (which is closer in terms of $$$) is even more of a proper gaming GPU. 12100F is fast enough to make use of such GPUs. Of course, it's not ideal, especially if you're a competitive gamer (i7-12700 + GTX 1650 Super it is then; might be more expensive but not by much) but if your only concern is money then 8700G makes negative sense.

P.S. I am talking purely gaming performance. Doubling i3-12100's core count is mighty useful in professional applications. And I am not sure if 8700G is pretty there but none expert so won't shoot claims.

Too bad the 12100F has no upgrade path, cannot be overclocked and is a 4core in 2024.
Even for simple office tasks, there is a huge difference between 4 and 6+ cores these days.

Also wait until the DDR5-9000+++++++ RAM overclocks begin to show up on the APUs, contrary to the chiplets which cannot go beyond ~6000 (AM4 apus could easily hit 4800 on air)

 

[Macro Device]

has no upgrade path

Any top-tier LGA1700 CPU is overqualified for AAA gaming and is more than fine in competitive. Will last for nearly a decade. Of course AM5 has more potential but it's also much more expensive to own an AM5 system compared to LGA1700.

Also wait until the DDR5-8000+++++++ RAM overclocks begin to show up on the APUs

Eh? By the time it becomes affordable we will have RX 7800 XT level GPUs for $300.

 

[marios15]

Any top-tier LGA1700 CPU is overqualified for AAA gaming and is more than fine in competitive. Will last for nearly a decade.

Eh? By the time it becomes affordable we will have RX 7800 XT level GPUs for $300.

That's the best part, you don't need to buy an OC kit on them.
Also, by the time RX 7800 XT level GPUs for $300 are available, Intel will have switched 5 sockets, while you might still be able to upgrade this to the latest gen on AM5 (or 1 gen back)
(2400G -> 5800X3D was a nice upgrade path)

FYI, the 12100F will bottleneck even a 7600 XT

 

[Kapone33]

Wow so much negative. Today I almost did an order for the 8700G. It was a MB, Case and RAM for an 8700G. The total cost was $389 Canadian. What people are not focusing on is what this APU will do with AFMF. It does actually challenge the 6500XT. For me the 780M is the next generation of the 6500XT anyway. Yes the 6500XT has faster VRAM and therefore will be faster in some scenarios but you cannot take away from the fact that it brings you onto the AM5 platform. This is great for people that don't want to waste $300 on a GPU that might be good for the next 2 years. Just imagine it is 2026 and you have saved $40 a week. That would allow you to spend $4160 on just a CPU and GPU if you started in January. There is also the fact that there are plenty people like me who are into AMD APUs and can't wait to get our hands on one of these. I will be updating my Dead Retro Console machine with this at some point.