AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

[aQi]

What southbridge? Chipset you mean? And why would you want to overclock it?

Yes definitely the chipset, my bad i should refer it as the chipset because Northbridge is now to be integrated inside the processor (long time from now)

Northbridge use to be OC but i dont think thats even done with the chipset now. Correct me if im wrong.

 

[TheGuruStud]

Power saving mode, lol, are you serious? Like i'm playing with the same card on a overclocked 2600K and i'm not having any of those problems. The system was installed fresh and everything is new except the video card, also another friend of mine uses a 1080ti and he has the same kind of problems, but just slightly less noticeable. Hitman 2 ran decently on my system, with not stellar framerate but neither drops or hiccups or freezes. He does tweak the game settings, but those problems aren't caused by tweaking wrong or at all game settings, there's just something wrong with the hardware, but it's not like it's faulty it's just that it doesn't seem to perform that smooth, or at least as not smooth as the much less powerful 6400. They both did overclock their CPUs, for what was worth it, since ryzen isn't that great overclocker and a couple hundreds MHz more aren't going to change the world.



And what other advantages are there? That they keep sockets for more than 1 gen? Wow, how useful, as if i'm going to swap processor every generation and like me many others...

You don't know how it behaves. You set it to performance mode, b/c cores coming out of sleep/idle adds latency. Windows is stupid. Threads are constantly jumping cores. And ryzen manages the power itself. You can run it at max clock 24/7 with very minimal consumption increase. AMD made a "balanced" profile just for this reason.

There's nothing wrong with the CPU. A 1st Gen ryzen at 4 GHz games and streams simultaneously with no issue.

 

[Tomorrow]

And what other advantages are there? That they keep sockets for more than 1 gen? Wow, how useful, as if i'm going to swap processor every generation and like me many others...

I already explained earlier: security, longevity and lower operating temperatures. If you want to spend extra to gain that last 10% IPC and clockspeed then that's your choice. Most people won't and will go with AMD instead. That is why i believe Intel and Nvidia will be relegated to the high end market in the coming years. Their low end stuff just isn't cutting it any more.

Also when it comes to upgradeability you automatically think there are no gains because that's what we got with Intel for years. AMD has proven that with Zen2 and by the looks of it Zen3 every generation will provide sustantial upgrades worth swapping CPU for. Zen+ increased IPC and clock speeds but was a minor upgrade. Zen2 will increase core counts, clock speeds and IPC. Zen3 will upgrade multithreading trough 3 or 4 way SMT per core, higher IPC and clock speeds. Maybe even core counts. Plus if something ever happens to your motherboard you can actually find new motherboard with compatible socket. Unlike Intel where i hunted for new H110 board for a friend of mine.

AMD is all around more consumer friendly option right now.

 

[oxidized]

You don't know how it behaves. You set it to performance mode, b/c cores coming out of sleep/idle adds latency. Windows is stupid. Threads are constantly jumping cores. And ryzen manages the power itself. You can run it at max clock 24/7 with very minimal consumption increase. AMD made a "balanced" profile just for this reason.

There's nothing wrong with the CPU. A 1st Gen ryzen at 4 GHz games and streams simultaneously with no issue.

Any fresh installed system has a balanced profile as default https://community.amd.com/thread/234021

Well apparently there is...Otherwise i wouldn't hear the same stuff from different people...With different configurations.

I already explained earlier: security, longevity and lower operating temperatures. If you want to spend extra to gain that last 10% IPC and clockspeed then that's your choice. Most people won't and will go with AMD instead. That is why i believe Intel and Nvidia will be relegated to the high end market in the coming years. Their low end stuff just isn't cutting it any more.

Security is out of question because it doesn't matter, longevity doesn't also matter for most of the people, since when you're going to build a new pc, you'll need to change motherboard regardless, since support is just for the socket, and it last ~3 years, and very few people builds different systems within 3 years, lower operating temperatures, probably, but again, ryzen is battling a 10 years old arch, which has been pumped and pumped since then. Here, you said it yourself, the reason AMD might be relegating nvidia and intel to high end, is because of their ultra aggresive pricing. Besides i worked in a computer service/shop recently, and money wise it was still better build an intel pentium build, instead of a ryzen, since no APUs from AMD came out back in 2017 and half of 2018 that cost around 50-60€ and that had that performance.

 

[Tomorrow]

Security is out of question because it doesn't matter,

In todays world security matters more than you think.

longevity doesn't also matter for most of the people, since when you're going to build a new pc, you'll need to change motherboard regardless, since support is just for the socket, and it last ~3 years, and very few people builds different systems within 3 years,

Yes and most of these people who upgrade every year or so buy Intel which proves my point that Intel is for Enthusiasts nor average users.

lower operating temperatures, probably, but again, ryzen is battling a 10 years old arch, which has been pumped and pumped since then.

Well who's fault is that? That's Intel's fault for not innovating.

Here, you said it yourself, the reason AMD might be relegating nvidia and intel to high end, is because of their ultra aggresive pricing.

Among other reasons. People are not stupid. If they see that they can get 90% of Intel's performance for half the price, have to worry less about security issues, spend less on cooling and get better long term support they will buy AMD. Recent data from Geram retailers and even Gamers Nexus proves that the most bought Intel parts are unlocked i7 and i9 SKU's. Intel's lower end parts are a ghost town.

Besides i worked in a computer service/shop recently, and money wise it was still better build an intel pentium build, instead of a ryzen, since no APUs from AMD came out back in 2017 and half of 2018 that cost around 50-60€ and that had that performance.

Well that has clearly changed hasn't it?
And in the coming months new APU's will be released with higher clock speeds and soldered IHS (lower temps) tho they are only Zen+ not Zen2 based. I don't know who is stupid enough these days to buy Pentiums any more. APU's are better in every way.

 

[oxidized]

In todays world security matters more than you think.

Not for mainstream consumers, not at all.

Yes and most of these people who upgrade every year or so buy Intel which proves my point that Intel is for Enthusiasts nor average users.

So it makes that "upgradability" factor, for mainstream consumers almost totally useless. Those who upgrade every year or so, have money to spend on this market, because they're enthusiast, so they would probably want newer features (or upgrated ones) coming with newer motherboards too, so that's really not an issue for them.

Well who's fault is that? That's Intel's fault for not innovating.

Yeah right, AMD didn't really help with that too, but still the fact remains.

Among other reasons. People are not stupid. If they see that they can get 90% of Intel's performance for half the price, have to worry less about security issues, spend less on cooling and get better long term support they will buy AMD. Recent data from Geram retailers and even Gamers Nexus proves that the most bought Intel parts are unlocked i7 and i9 SKU's. Intel's lower end parts are a ghost town.

90%? According to stutters and spikes and drops i would say much, much less, because those are even worse than just lower performance, again with security...That's a nice mirror to climb for fanboys, nothing more, spend less on cooling yes, but what about needing to spend more to get good memories, with reasonably high frequency and compatibility to not limit the capabilities of the CPU? That data is totally worthless, especially that from Gamers Nexus, since they said it themselves, it's only based on people who watch that channel, hence, more experienced than "mainstream". They might be now, buy they surely weren't a year ago now.

Well that has clearly changed hasn't it?
And in the coming months new APU's will be released with higher clock speeds and soldered IHS (lower temps) tho they are only Zen+ not Zen2 based. I don't know who is stupid enough these days to buy Pentiums any more. APU's are better in every way.

And i hope so...See, regardless of what you might think of me, i'm very happy for what AMD managed to do, this only means they can go higher and better with time, and i'll have no problems in buying their CPU once they totally convince me, like when i bought my 2600K...Hoping it won't end like it did with a RX 480 i bought a couple of years ago, i had to ask for a refund for.

 

[notb]

In todays world security matters more than you think.

I'd assume what he meant is: matters to the customers. And it really doesn't. You will not sell a PC based on the fact that it uses a CPU that had less vulnerabilities found lately.

Yes and most of these people who upgrade every year or so buy Intel which proves my point that Intel is for Enthusiasts nor average users.

How you got to the theory that enthusiasts replace CPUs often and average users don't is beyond me.

Anyway, without creating complex behavioral theories, one can easily observe that majority of Ryzen fans on this forum have replaced their 1000-series with 2000-series and they openly state that they'll buy 3000-series as soon as possible.

Well who's fault is that? That's Intel's fault for not innovating.

The goal is to make money, not innovate. Intel makes money. They have a very stable, mature platform. It's an advantage, not a fault.
Of course every company has to innovate to remain relevant. But this has to be balanced with sales.

AMD can't do that. Strictly speaking: Zen is not selling very well. AMD had to drastically lower prices to have any growth. But they have very low margins. This won't change until they make a competitive product that can be sold at higher prices.

Do you really think changing the CPU design just after 2 years (Zen -> Zen2) is good for anyone?

Among other reasons. People are not stupid. If they see that they can get 90% of Intel's performance for half the price, have to worry less about security issues,

No one says people are stupid. People simply have better things to do than compare benchmarks and read about security holes. Not everyone analyzes computer choices as much as you do.
Intel focuses on delivering products that are easy to work - ideally with minimal fuss and no tinkering. This approach has to compromise performance.
AMD makes products that need more knowledge and time to set up.

spend less on cooling

I'm pretty sure that if we went through filled specs of TPU forum members, the average price of cooling on AMD platforms would be higher than on Intel.
I can check it if you want.

get better long term support they will buy AMD.

The words "AMD" and "support" don't really look well together - unless you add "lack of". :-D
Seriously, it's just socket longevity. Don't get overexcited.

Recent data from Geram retailers and even Gamers Nexus proves that the most bought Intel parts are unlocked i7 and i9 SKU's. Intel's lower end parts are a ghost town.

Yes, people building custom gaming PCs buy top unlocked CPUs. Are you really surprised?

 

[Tomorrow]

Not for mainstream consumers, not at all.

Less for mainstream, much for for enterprise. But the fact remains Intels old Core arch has more problems. You may claim otherwise but the data shows that to be the case.

Yeah right, AMD didn't really help with that too, but still the fact remains.

True but AMD got it's act together and started producing worthy products. Intel is yet to do so.

90%? According to stutters and spikes and drops i would say much, much less, because those are even worse than just lower performance, again with security...That's a nice mirror to climb for fanboys, nothing more, spend less on cooling yes, but what about needing to spend more to get good memories, with reasonably high frequency and compatibility to not limit the capabilities of the CPU? That data is totally worthless, especially that from Gamers Nexus, since they said it themselves, it's only based on people who watch that channel, hence, more experienced than "mainstream". They might be now, buy they surely weren't a year ago now.

That is your experience. My experience and the reviews show otherwise. AMD seems to have better 0,1% and 1% lows. And better frametimes - especially when streaming.
The expensive memory thing is constantly brought up by Intel supporters. It may have had merit last year but these days you can get 2x8GB 3200 CL16 kit for less than 100$/€ which is more than enough for Ryzen. Or better yet get a 3000 kit and set it to 3200 for 50-70$. Literally changing one BIOS setting.
Yes GN audience is more tech savvy but these people also affect buying decisions of their friends and relatives. And when they say get AMD people will.

And i hope so...See, regardless of what you might think of me, i'm very happy for what AMD managed to do, this only means they can go higher and better with time, and i'll have no problems in buying their CPU once they totally convince me, like when i bought my 2600K...Hoping it won't end like it did with a RX 480 i bought a couple of years ago, i had to ask for a refund for.

What was wrong with your 480?

I'd assume what he meant is: matters to the customers. And it really doesn't. You will not sell a PC based on the fact that it uses a CPU that had less vulnerabilities found lately.

In enterprise you will.

How you got to the theory that enthusiasts replace CPUs often and average users don't is beyond me.

Because enthusiasts are allocating bigger budget to their purchases and they need to have the latest and greatest.

Anyway, without creating complex behavioral theories, one can easily observe that majority of Ryzen fans on this forum have replaced their 1000-series with 2000-series and they openly state that they'll buy 3000-series as soon as possible.

Atleast they have the option to do so. Many people are stuck on older Intel platforms because upgrading would mean changing the entire platform. Plus does this not prove the point that AMD brings out more substantial upgrades worth changing CPU for?

The goal is to make money, not innovate. Intel makes money. They have a very stable, mature platform. It's an advantage, not a fault.
Of course every company has to innovate to remain relevant. But this has to be balanced with sales.

Intel makes money at the expense of it's users. Not a good long term strategy. It works when you have near monopoly but quickly falls apart when you get decent competition.
AMD's platform is not stable? In 2017 when Ryzen came out i would have said so myself but not today.

AMD can't do that. Strictly speaking: Zen is not selling very well. AMD had to drastically lower prices to have any growth. But they have very low margins. This won't change until they make a competitive product that can be sold at higher prices.

Zen is not selling very well? I which alternate reality have you been living for the past years?
AMD low prices are not the result of Ryzen not selling. It is the result of smart business strategy where they have very high yield rate for their chips compared to Intel's monolithic dies. Lower margins too yes but still sustainable. It's not a charity but it's also not an extortion.

Do you really think changing the CPU design just after 2 years (Zen -> Zen2) is good for anyone?

If it brings noticeable performance improvements and does not break backward compatibility then yes. It's good for everyone.

Intel focuses on delivering products that are easy to work - ideally with minimal fuss and no tinkering. This approach has to compromise performance.
AMD makes products that need more knowledge and time to set up.

I fail to see how setting up AMD system needs more knowledge. All parts adhere to ATX standard. Infact i would argue that setting up AMD system is safer due to PGA socket type. Especially for first time builders.

I'm pretty sure that if we went through filled specs of TPU forum members, the average price of cooling on AMD platforms would be higher than on Intel.
I can check it if you want.

Because bunch of old Intels systems using stock coolers? TPU is largely enthusiast forum. Ofcourse people will have better cooling.

The words "AMD" and "support" don't really look well together - unless you add "lack of". :-D
Seriously, it's just socket longevity. Don't get overexcited.

Yes because Intel has been great at supporting their old security hole ridden CPU's and providing timely updates and fixes - not.

 

[notb]

Would i prefer a fan were not used? Sure! But if it's necessary, i'm OK with it being there, so long as it's necessary: if not, then that's just cosmetic, much like RGB.

But what "necessary" means? In the end it's just a balance of costs. Fans are cheap. Engineering and building a good passive solution is expensive.
It's hard for me to believe that chipset reached a point where passive cooling is really difficult. That would have to be over 30W.

I understand there was a goal to keep the cost down, since AMD's platform is supposed to be cheaper. But I think they've gone too far.
Of course all the motherboards we've seen are gaming models, with a lot of useless elements. So someone decided that in particular production budget "gaming looks" are more important than quality.
I'm looking forward to motherboards with more "practical" feel, like ASUS Prime or ASRock Taichi/PRO.

I know there were shortages of Intel CPU's and the Radeon Vii which was more of a limited edition than general launch imo cause of 7nm and they needed "something" since RTX, but there have not been any shortages of either Ryzen series from launch and they have sold consistently.

They were not made on the 7nm.
AMD didn't have enough 7nm to make the I/O die or the chipset on 7nm. This means it has to be really scarce.
I won't be surprised if some 3000-series <=8C Ryzen end up as Zen+ refresh.
This has to be looked at in the context of Intel's 10nm supply problems. Only few product lines will get it this year. But Intel has way over 80% of market share.
By the end of this year Intel's 10nm CPUs might (IMO: will) outsell AMD's 7nm on both volume and revenue.

what qualifications do you have to expect your opinion to matter to me, I have qualifications in engineering and have worked as such for 25 years to account for my knowledge ,what do you have. and i am truly an enthusiast.

I never said you're underqualified as engineer of something (whatever it may be). You don't know much about fans, but maybe you specialized in roads etc. I'm fine with that.
You're underqualified in the ability to have a polite conversation. And in English.

I am not mocking you for your pc being shit , im saying you show no love for tech unless its intel or nvidia

Even if that is true, why can't one be a tech enthusiast even if he only buys these 2 brands of CPU/GPU? Care to explain?

Also, I find it quite disturbing that you're using the word "tech" but you really mean computers.

(though not with your cash it seams since your pc is shit)

And here it is once again.

get some proof,oh and don't imply i'm just a gamer after FPS in posts and don't care

Yes, you are. You don't know much about cooling, I bet you don't know anything about semiconductors and transistors. Based on earlier discussions I know you have no idea about programming and not much about software in general.
So basically: you build a computer now and then, you overclock it, you run benchmarks and you game. And you call yourself a "tech enthusiast" because you've spend a lot on this hobby. I can't be one, because I spend less. It's really all in your comments.

I AM PURELY A TECH ,ALL TECH ENTHUSIAST

And you must feel really inadequate...

 

[EarthDog]

Intel is yet to do so.

buuuuuut.... why would they when AMD did nothing for the better part of a decade prior to Ryzen?

Now that they've come to play for real, we'll, hopefully for all, see the beast awaken once again. Competition is good. Ifs just too bad were having core wars instead of real clock or IPC wars. So few people can use this many cores and software isnt exactly catching up at a fast rate.

 

[IceShroom]

The words "AMD" and "support" don't really look well together - unless you add "lack of". :-D
Seriously, it's just socket longevity. Don't get overexcited.

If Intel's support is so great then why my HD 4600 has only WDDM 2 not new WDDM 2.5. (And dont give excause that HD is only an iGPU, as intels support is great).
And haven't recived any UEFI with any mitigation.

 

[Tomorrow]

AMD didn't have enough 7nm to make the I/O die or the chipset on 7nm. This means it has to be really scarce.

You clearly have little idea about the economics behind making chips if you state things like that. First and foremost certain elements do not scale well with newer nodes. I/O and caches being one of them. Second and more important is WSA. WSA stands for Wafer Supply Agreement between AMD and Global Foundries. AMD is obligated to buy some capacity from GloFo and 14nm IO die makes sense. Plus Zen+ based APU's coming out. So it makes perfect financial sense to source 14nm and 12nm products from GloFo. It has nothing to do with 7nm supply constraints. That being said ofcourse 7nm is at capacity. So it's a smart move.

I won't be surprised if some 3000-series <=8C Ryzen end up as Zen+ refresh.

The only 3000 series Zen+ based parts will be the 3200G and 3400G APU's. And yes both are less than 8c so technically you're not wrong.

By the end of this year Intel's 10nm CPUs might (IMO: will) outsell AMD's 7nm on both volume and revenue.

In revenue? sure. This is Intel we're talking about. In volume? I doubt it. 10nm will only come to notebooks up to 4c/8t variants based on their 10nm. Desktop parts based on 10nm will likely be skipped alltogether in favor of 7nm on 2021 (if they can even meet that deadline). Meaning for desktop Intel will keep pumping out 14nm rebrands with slight tweaks for next two years. Financially i understand why they do this - if they can sell everything they produce they have no reason to lower prices and 10nm will never be desktop viable.

 

[notb]

Because enthusiasts are allocating bigger budget to their purchases and they need to have the latest and greatest.

Oh, I think you're very wrong here.
Normal people buy MacBooks and high-end notebooks these days (of course I'm talking about developed countries: US, western Europe, Japan).
Hence, it's very likely they spend more than people building custom PCs - even with expensive parts.

Intel makes money at the expense of it's users.

Are there other ways to make money? :-o

AMD's platform is not stable? In 2017 when Ryzen came out i would have said so myself but not today.

I meant "stable" as in: not much changes from gen to gen. Very similar products.

Zen is not selling very well? I which alternate reality have you been living for the past years?

The one that can read financial statements.

AMD low prices are not the result of Ryzen not selling. It is the result of smart business strategy where they have very high yield rate for their chips compared to Intel's monolithic dies. Lower margins too yes but still sustainable. It's not a charity but it's also not an extortion.

In fact you've just described a charity: AMD asks less because they can. That is not how business works. ;-)
AMD asks as much as they can for particular performance level - much less than Intel does. And it still leaves them around 10-15% of consumer market share.

If it brings noticeable performance improvements and does not break backward compatibility then yes. It's good for everyone.

For customers: maybe.
For AMD it would be best to sell the same Zen CPUs for as long as possible.

I fail to see how setting up AMD system needs more knowledge. All parts adhere to ATX standard. Infact i would argue that setting up AMD system is safer due to PGA socket type. Especially for first time builders.

Assembling any PC on AMD is as easy as on Intel's. But a PC that matches the results we see in reviews? Tinkering? Careful RAM choice?

Lets say I go to a shop, I buy a Ryzen 2700 and a cheap AM4 mobo. I use the RAM I have (Corsair LPX 3200MHz C16). I plug everything and boot - no OC, no tinkering, no setting best RAM profile etc.
How much performance would I lose compared to the (also no OC) results I see on review sites (with high end mobos, B-die RAM and careful setting everything up)? 10%? 20%? That's what I meant.

Because bunch of old Intels systems using stock coolers? TPU is largely enthusiast forum. Ofcourse people will have better cooling.

Assuming the "specs" form on this forum is for showing off, I doubt a lot of people mentioned stock coolers. But I can filter them if you want. So, interested?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

@notb
But what "necessary" means? In the end it's just a balance of costs. Fans are cheap. Engineering and building a good passive solution is expensive.
It's hard for me to believe that chipset reached a point where passive cooling is really difficult. That would have to be over 30W. Clearly its hard for you to understand weve had 5 pages of bullshit and no proof<me

I understand there was a goal to keep the cost down, since AMD's platform is supposed to be cheaper. But I think they've gone too far.<say's the expert in engineering and manufacturing<me
Of course all the motherboards we've seen are gaming models, with a lot of useless elements. So someone decided that in particular production budget "gaming looks" are more important than quality.
I'm looking forward to motherboards with more "practical" feel, like ASUS Prime or ASRock Taichi/PRO.

They were not made on the 7nm.
AMD didn't have enough 7nm to make the I/O die or the chipset on 7nm. This means it has to be really scarce.<This shows just how little you know , Scarce, they are not Scarce ,see phone Soc's, they are expensive<me
I won't be surprised if some 3000-series <=8C Ryzen end up as Zen+ refresh.<the APU's sort of are and??<me
This has to be looked at in the context of Intel's 10nm supply problems. Only few product lines will get it this year. But Intel has way over 80% of market share.<They had more market share no? , that was until Ryzen
By the end of this year Intel's 10nm CPUs might (IMO: will) outsell AMD's 7nm on both volume and revenue.

I never said you're underqualified as engineer of something (whatever it may be). You don't know much about fans, but maybe you specialized in roads etc. I'm fine with that.
You're underqualified in the ability to have a polite conversation. And in English.<im an engineer qualified in electronics ,electrical , and mechanical ,working on mass spectrometers for the research community, you??,me

Even if that is true, why can't one be a tech enthusiast even if he only buys these 2 brands of CPU/GPU? Care to explain?<But you don't buy, do you, and no enthusiast i know JUST turns up to slate one company in a forum , enthusiasts call all company's at one time or another, you do not.,me

Also, I find it quite disturbing that you're using the word "tech" but you really mean computers.<your narrow perspective limit's your viewpoint, and disturbing, odd I am not just into computers but irrelevant anyway.

And here it is once again. <and here you are once again ,take it to pm's then?

Yes, you are. You don't know much about cooling, I bet you don't know anything about semiconductors and transistors. Based on earlier discussions I know you have no idea about programming and not much about software in general.
So basically: you build a computer now and then, you overclock it, you run benchmarks and you game. And you call yourself a "tech enthusiast" because you've spend a lot on this hobby. I can't be one, because I spend less. It's really all in your comments.<how's about you take a breath , stop assuming you know me when you don't eh perhaps get a little more on topic in another topic, you surely cant argue that you have made your point here, we know what and why you think, you told us over 5 pages already, YAWN.me

And you must feel really inadequate...

no , hung like a mule , but irrelevant as is most of yours and my conversation ,I don't get it what's , never mind.<me

 

[Vya Domus]

10nm will only come to notebooks up to 4c/8t variants based on their 10nm.

You need a cheap process with very good yields for mobile chips, Intel's 10nm seems to be anything but that. The fact that a year has passed since that i3 part with no iGPU has been released, which seems to have been produced in almost no quantity, suggests they can't even make mobile 10nm chips viable. Remember, that's technically supposed to be the easiest and cheapest way to introduce a new node on the consumer market. I suspect this node was purely optimized for space and that came at the expense of every other metric, what the hell are they going to do with it is beyond me.

 

[cucker tarlson]

AMD is relegating both intel and nvidia to that market, by underpricing their lower quality products (not all of them luckily). Also there's always different needs, people need to understand ryzen isn't better for everyone, ryzen is better for the mainstream market (because it's cheaper), for gaming it doesn't perform like intel, and i'm not only talking about fps. I have several friends who were very happy to swap to AMD from intel, but in 1/2 years they swear they notice something off from when they used intel, like random lag spikes, even on newer models like 2700, like this friend of mine who swapped from a i5 6400 to a r7 2700 and with the same graphics card (asus strix 1060 6GB), and he swears that his gaming sessions are not as smooth as they were with a much less powerful processor.

this is no rocket science.if you're cpu limited with a multi-threaded game on a 4 core/ 4 thread you'll see the same hitching/stutter he sees on 2700 but didn't see on 6400 with a single core heavy game.
that's why you select your cpu based on single core perfromance and only then adjust the number of cores based on your needs to have your ass covered on all bases.I have no idea why anyone would go with 2700 non-x over 8600k for a gaming rig,they're the same price.

 

[Solaris17]

Waiting for a super mod to come in and clean what was already fixed earlier.

Thanks for the reports (yay community engagement)

Now lets try to just stay on topic, for those that managed Thank you.

 

[cucker tarlson]

You'r'e really annoying as FCK about being troll in entire AMD threads.along with Manu_PT , oxidized.This SS prove it.Just go away.

oxidized has been spot on with what he said in this thread,it's the fact you can't comprehend it.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

So on Topic , Do we really expect AMD to Detail Both Navi and ryzen 3000, Im starting to think they will hold off on Navi ,,giving this Hotchips over specifically to release Ryzen and saving Navi for a later show.

I mostly think this because as far as i can see the channel looks quite full of inventory which to me makes holding Navi back a bit, a wise business move, only a month or two but Lisa Su also seams to have quite a few Keynotes to deliver coming up, they like to spread out the good bits.

 

[EarthDog]

So on Topic , Do we really expect AMD to Detail Both Navi and ryzen 3000, Im starting to think they will hold off on Navi ,,giving this Hotchips over specifically to release Ryzen and saving Navi for a later show.

Yes.

I dont see why they would wait... that makes no sense to me personally. Knock out the opponent...dont leave them dazed.

I mostly think this because as far as i can see the channel looks quite full of inventory

How do you know what is out there? And lord knows pitcairn has been played out and refreshed enough that cutting any losses at this point feels moot to me to bring out something new and more people would want.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Yes.

I dont see why they would wait... that makes no sense to me personally. Knock out the opponent...dont leave them dazed.

How do you know what is out there? And lord knows pitcairn has been played out and refreshed enough that cutting any losses at this point feels moot to me to bring out something new and more people would want.

I'm not sure Navi has that Knockout potential which is why I think it might get saved for E3 or something ,but Ryzen is shaping up to be worth an hour or two of exclusive Lisa Su ,gloating to me.

Be nice if your right though.

 

[EarthDog]

Knock out as in something new... I dont expect it to take the performance crown, but do expect it to be competitive in the higher end. Rumors it has ray tracing too I think? So yeah... time to move on a refresh... give Intel the old 1-2... straight jab with navi to stun, Zen2 for the KO.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Yes definitely the chipset, my bad i should refer it as the chipset because Northbridge is now to be integrated inside the processor (long time from now)

Northbridge use to be OC but i dont think thats even done with the chipset now. Correct me if im wrong.

Not that I'm aware of no. Messing with PCIe controller frequencies tend to cause bad things too, so not a good idea.

The CPU has an integrated PCIe 4.0 controller, yes. The question is whether the chipset has a PCIe 4.0 switch for peripheral devices, storage, etc. If the old rumor of AMD reusing their EPYC chipset for X570 is true, then it will indeed contain a PCIe 4.0 switch, but also have a 15W TDP. That's not unheard of for a chipset, but still a bit high. Nothing that can't be handled by a decent fin stack in a case with decent airflow, but it might require a fan in less-than-ideal conditions under heavy load. 15W is a full laptop CPU/APU after all. Cooling that passively is challenging. Then again, a chipset is highly unlikely to be stressed significantly over long periods of time.

My main concern is what this might mean for ITX boards. I'm guessing the chipset package still isn't very large, but implementing proper cooling will be even more of a challenge. Might be enough to just run a heatpipe from it into the VRM fin stack though. Nonetheless, I really want a high-end ITX board with two (or even better, three) m.2 slots. Of course, Asus already does have two on their boards, but that takes away bandwidth from the GPU. Doesn't matter much, but it's not ideal.

It does. Not really a rumour, but I guess there has been no official word on it either. The TDP I don't know, but everyone here seems to think it's 15W.

There has already been mini-ITX board model names leaked, so I guess it's coming, but what they will look like, I don't know.

Tom's posted this interesting snipped for those with X470 and B450 boards https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-amd-ryzen-3000-pcie-4.0-x470,39377.html

They were not made on the 7nm.
AMD didn't have enough 7nm to make the I/O die or the chipset on 7nm. This means it has to be really scarce.
I won't be surprised if some 3000-series <=8C Ryzen end up as Zen+ refresh.
This has to be looked at in the context of Intel's 10nm supply problems. Only few product lines will get it this year. But Intel has way over 80% of market share.
By the end of this year Intel's 10nm CPUs might (IMO: will) outsell AMD's 7nm on both volume and revenue.

No offence, but stop spreading FUD. This is total BS. You seriously need to read up on how computer ICs are made.

First of all, the I/O part is really hard to shrink and there have been plenty of reports that AMD kept it at 14nm as there was no significant power saving or other benefit to shrink it to a smaller manufacturing node.

Secondly, the chipset is still at something like 40 or 32nm, but not likely to be on a smaller node than that, as chipsets are generally a generation or two behind and there's often no need to use cutting edge manufacturing nodes for chipsets. Intel doesn't make all their chipsets at 14nm++++ either, as they don't have enough production capacity https://www.techpowerup.com/247773/...-to-22nm-in-wake-of-14-nm-silicon-constraints
In the past, Intels chipsets used to be at least one node behind their CPUs, if not two.
Unfortunately AMD is a little bit too far behind maybe, hence the potential thermal concerns under high load.

How would AMD be able to use chiplets in a CPU that had a unified die? And why would they carry on selling the 2000 series once the 3000 series is out, beyond selling out what little stock they have left?

You seem to overestimate where Intel is at with 10nm. You might very well be correct in the mobile space, but desktop, unlikely.

 

[Valantar]

So on Topic , Do we really expect AMD to Detail Both Navi and ryzen 3000, Im starting to think they will hold off on Navi ,,giving this Hotchips over specifically to release Ryzen and saving Navi for a later show.

I mostly think this because as far as i can see the channel looks quite full of inventory which to me makes holding Navi back a bit, a wise business move, only a month or two but Lisa Su also seams to have quite a few Keynotes to deliver coming up, they like to spread out the good bits.

Hot Chips is not where you go to launch a consumer product like Ryzen or Radeon, it's an industry conference for technical deep-dives and architectural explanations with a high to extreme level of detail. It's not consumer oriented whatsoever.

Besides, the topics of the Hot Chips talks are confirmed by AMD and Hot Chips. Zen 2 is one, Navi is another, with a third keynote for ecosystem/HPC/compute more generally.


In all likelihood:
Ryzen 3000 will launch at Computex.
Navi will be teased at Computex and launch at E3.
AMD has confirmed keynotes at both, and the timing makes sense. They might not be hard launches, but they'll be launches. The level of inventory currently doesn't matter much - it'll mostly sell out in the coming months anyhow, and AMD is always good at discounting previous-gen products.

 

[Vayra86]

The fact that the only thing people could come up with in 5 pages of comments about how Zen 2 is going to be terrible is a tiny fan goes to show how far they've come. You know you're doing a good job when the fanboys are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find things to complain about.

Anyway, make sure ya'll watch your manicure.

This. Page 6 now and still going nowhere, the only substance was there on page 1 or 2. But do keep going!