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AMD Zen 6 Powers "Medusa Point" Mobile and "Olympic Ridge" Desktop Processors

btarunr

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AMD is readying two important client segment processors powered by the next-generation "Zen 6" microarchitecture, according to a sensational new report by Moore's Law is Dead. These are the "Medusa Point" mobile processor, and the "Olympic Ridge" desktop. The former is a BGA roughly the size and Z-Height of the current "Strix Point," but the latter is being designed for the existing Socket AM5, making it the third (and probably final) microarchitecture to do so. If you recall, Socket AM4 served three generations of Zen, not counting the refreshed "Zen+." At the heart of the effort is a new CPU complex die (CCD) that AMD plans to use across its client and server lineup.

The "Zen 6" performance CCD is being designed for a 3 nm-class node, likely the TSMC N3E. This node promises a significant increase in transistor density, power, and clock speed improvements over the current TSMC N4P node being used to build the "Zen 5" CCD. Here's where it gets interesting. The CCD contains twelve full-sized "Zen 6" cores, marking the first increase in core-counts of AMD's performance cores since its very first "Zen" CCD. All 12 of these cores are part of a single CPU core complex (CCX), and share a common L3 cache. There could be a proportionate increase in cache size to 48 MB. AMD is also expected to improve the way the CCDs communicate with the I/O die and among each other.



Going all the way back to the Ryzen 3000 series "Matisse," the two CCDs on the client desktop processor have had Infinity Fabric links to the I/O die, but no direct high-bandwidth interconnects between the two CCDs. For threads to migrate between cores of the two CCDs, they would have to make a round-trip through the main memory. AMD is looking to solve this with the introduction of a new low-latency bridge connection between the two CCDs. If the goal is to enable threads to seamlessly migrate among cores of the two CCDs, cutting out round-trips to the main memory, then the purpose of this bridge interconnect is to establish cache coherency between the two CCDs. This would vastly lower intercore latency.

Here's where things get very interesting. Apparently, the "Medusa Point" mobile processor is chiplet-based, and will use a single 12-core "Zen 6" chiplet, with a large mobile client I/O die built on an older node, likely the N4P. This mobile cIOD will contain an updated iGPU that's powered by the newer RDNA 4 graphics architecture. It will also contain the chip's memory controllers, and an updated NPU. We hope AMD works to increase the number of PCIe lanes put out by this I/O die, or at least update it to PCIe Gen 5. Pictures show small rectangular structures on the mobile client I/O die causing some speculation that it is some kind of low power island CCX with "Zen 6c" cores, although MLID lays this to rest by saying that these are workgroup processors (WGPs) of the iGPU. There are eight of these and a large slab of L2 cache, which seems to confirm that the iGPU is based on the RDNA 4 graphics architecture, and has 16 compute units (CU).

Since AMD is using the same CCD for "Medusa Point" as the "Olympic Ridge" desktop processor, you could expect variants of "Medusa Point" with 3D V-Cache. The 3D V-Cache technology is expected to be implemented on "Zen 6" much in the same way it is on "Zen 5," with an upside-down stacking—3D V-Cache die (L3D) below, with CCD on top.

Given the increase in CPU core counts, especially with "Olympic Ridge" getting up to 24 cores with two CCDs, and the inter-CCD bridge interconnect for cache coherency, AMD is going to need a new client I/O die for desktop. We've already discussed this in older articles. The new cIOD is expected to be built on the Samsung 4LPP (4 nm EUV) foundry node, which offers improvements over the TSMC N6 DUV node the current cIOD is being built on. A key area of focus for AMD will be the memory controllers, which will be updated to support higher DDR5 memory speeds using technologies such as CKD. You can currently run a "Granite Ridge" processor with memory speeds of up to DDR5-8000 but using a 1:2 clock divider is engaged between FCLK and MCLK, with 1:1 speeds being limited to around DDR5-6400. The new memory controllers will look to increase speeds with 1:1, and unlock speeds beyond 10000 MT/s with 1:2.

Then there's the matter of AI acceleration, and the new cIOD will present AMD with the opportunity to implement at least a 50 TOPS-class XDNA 2 NPU. Intel received flack for giving its "Arrow Lake" processors a 16 TOPS-class NPU that doesn't meet Copilot+ requirements, and the company is probably working to fix this in "Panther Lake," and so if AMD decides to implement an NPU on the cIOD for "Olympic Ridge," we predict it will be at least 50 TOPS-class.

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freeagent

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This right here is the start to a good hardware pr0n.

Deer Popcorn GIF
 
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Given the size of the IO die and the fact that they’re trying to increase cache size by 50%, It looks like all they had room for was a bunch of C cores. Which is fine by me. Hopefully it’ll improve power consumption and heat.
 
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12 cores on a single CCD, slap that sweet v-cache on it and it's golden.
 
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12 cores on a single CCD, slap that sweet v-cache on it and it's golden.

I do wonder if intel falls further behind in gaming what amd will charge for it. My guess is there will be a 12 core Ryzen 9 version for stupid money and the cut down Ryzen 7 version with the same 8 cores.
 
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I do wonder if intel falls further behind in gaming what amd will charge for it. My guess is there will be a 12 core Ryzen 9 version for stupid money and the cut down Ryzen 7 version with the same 8 cores.
No point to damage the Ryzen 9 name with 12 cores, more likely

Ryzen 5 11600X 8 cores
Ryzen 7 11709X 12 cores
Ryzen 9 11900X 16 cores
Ryzen 9 11950X 24 cores

Maybe finally new Ryzen 3 with 6 cores?

8cu igp on regular desktop cpus possible?
No chance, in the best case 4cu
 
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New IOD on the horizon, means potential for more PCIe lanes/bandwidth*, and more-expandable 'X970' platform.
*PCIe Gen 6 on-CPU? Gen5x4 link to chipset? -allowing for better Gen3 and Gen4 'fanout' from the Promontory.
Hey... I can dream? Right? :rolleyes:

12 cores on a single CCD, slap that sweet v-cache on it and it's golden.
Agreed.
 
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Readying?!! What time span is being implied here? Zen 5 is still in early days. If Zen 6 ships this year then I doubt Zen 7 will be a new socket at all.
 
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Readying?!! What time span is being implied here? Zen 5 is still in early days. If Zen 6 ships this year then I doubt Zen 7 will be a new socket at all.
Zen 6 will be released 2026, there is no way to be 2025 release. AMD follows the ~2 year circle
 
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Medusa is the successor for Strix Point, and will also have a Halo version.
We hope AMD works to increase the number of PCIe lanes put out by this I/O die
Haha, no, it's more likely to have even less.
 
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Medusa is the successor for Strix Point, and will also have a Halo version.

Haha, no, it's more likely to have even less.
"Hey, let's reduce PCIe lane count even further, and see hardware enthusiasts facepalm even harder!" :laugh:

Truth be told, if there is enough bandwidth to not bottleneck performance on GPUs with mobile power envelope and embedded SSDs, I'd call it a win. PCIe 5.0 x4 for GPUs and x2 to x1 for SSDs may well be sufficient, cutting down on board footprint at the same time.

It would be a shame, especially for lower end peripherals without PCIe 5.0 support, of course.

----

Hopefully existing motherboards would support the new CPU without major limitations. Faster memory with CKD and without IF bottleneck would be so sweet.
 
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Hopefully existing motherboards would support the new CPU without major limitations. Faster memory with CKD and without IF bottleneck would be so sweet.
Someone mentioned that they have CUDIMM working on an ASUS X870E board at over 8000 (in bypass mode). So it will be interesting to see what happens once you add a ZEN 6 processor into the mix.
 
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10800X3D with 12 corrs, 7000+ 1:1 ram support and not bw-limitations in IO-die like Zen 4/5 have would be my dream cpu :D
 
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8cu igp on regular desktop cpus possible?
I don’t see why not, they are indicating they are leaving dedicated graphics with their no high end gpu stance and the retarded pricing even the low end is getting with the 9000 series.
might as well fuck nvidia out of the bottom of the market by making igpu solutions good enough
 
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Consoles need to start using these CCD's. It' time we move on from 8C/16T standard.

Who says they won't? I've been betting they will. In-fact, if you think about bandwidth it truly does make the most sense. On top of that, 22T makes the most sense for efficiency on 3nm.
Look at how speed drops as more threads are introduced on Zen 5. Applying logic of 3nm (1.328x xtors/1.164 clock) and you can pretty much come to the conclusion 12 cores (11 in use) is the way to go.
For instance, on a console, they'll probably reserve a core for the OS, which would make sense (hammer 11 cores/22 threads in games and leave one more-or-less idle).

WRT bw, current PS5pro: Something like 15000/3000mhz split, essentially same as a 6000mhz 128-bit desktop chip for CPU. If 32gbps (which next-gen consoles probably are) figure it out.

I've been saying it's probably ~60TF*. I doubt they would make it faster than 1440p where 9070xt is 1080p best/worse-case (depending on you look at it), so less than ~40% (38.8% to scale).
9070xt* has 20gbps, so the obvious thing to think is ~27gbps for the GPU. This leaves ~5gbps (on a 256-bit bus) for the CPU.
*Comparison is weird because this is counting capability for upscaling; PS6 might use a tight design where-as 9070xt has extra shaders for upscaling (~45TF for practical raster + ~9% extra for upscaling [think DLSS3]).

So...around 10000mhz comparatively on a 128-bit bus. Which, you know, makes no sense with 8 cores. 12 cores, however...

10000/6000 = 1.66666. Divide that by 1.5...1.11. PS5 cpu is 3500mhz. Ps5pro is 3850mhz in turbo mode....or 10% faster.

Coincidence? Probably. But maybe not! Would you really be surprised if it were the upper-clocks of Zen 5c (~4ghz) or a higher-clocked version of Turin? I would not.
Turin is 3nm, but probably *could* have been 4nm. Turin is 3.3ghz. 3.3ghz*1.164 (clock scaling of 3nm) = 3.8412ghz.

Weird. Not saying it absolutely will be ~3.85ghz with a turbo to ~4.1-4.3 (split maybe ~27.5/4.5 at stock and then switched to 27/5 in turbo?), but maybe? It would make sense if it's something like that.

Again, this is why I hate speculating....because you can get REAL close when using common-sense....but obviously we don't know the exact design and/or limitations.

But, we can get close. Real, real close. Behold the powwwerrr of math.
 
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10800X3D with 12 corrs, 7000+ 1:1 ram support and not bw-limitations in IO-die like Zen 4/5 have would be my dream cpu :D
Yeah, I've been saying it makes the most sense to support 7200 cas 34. If they could support 7600mhz, even if unofficially, I would be plenty happy.
If people want to run tighter timings with higher voltage and/or lower speed, go for it. But I'd be plenty happy with that.

Still, I can't shake the Hypertransport Link Infinity Fabric. Currently it operates on a 3:1 ratio, right? Wouldn't it make the most sense to be 4:1 (so 8000mhz?). I don't know as I haven't dug into the design.
Does it make sense to try to ramp the IF that high at 3x? Or rather relax it and do it the other way? I don't know. Like I said, I'll be happy if you can max out CL28/30 ram (above 6400mhz).

Very curious what they'll do bc they've gotta maintain that seperation with V-cache. So I don't exactly expect 1:1 CUDIMMs working...bc that would screw up their whole business model (I think?).
 
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I wonder whether they'll follow the new VGA-naming with the processors...

1060
1060X
1070X
1080X
1080X3D
1090X
1090X3D
1095X
1095X3D
 
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