AMD's RX Vega Launch Prices Might be Just Smoke and Mirrors

[vega22]

Title is based on story (linked in OP) that a retailer is stating AMD pricing is not $499, it's higher. Point being if AMD release a card to reviewers at a suggested price which they then inflate (AMD, not the retailers) then it is smoke and mirrors and dishonest.

If however, AMD or a retailer can show the current msrp, then it'll all be clear. It would be easy for AMD to clarify the msrp so the blame can fall on the retailers. But Gibbo (honest guv' he's not a bleedin' liar?) is saying that retailers will actually lose money on the cards if the had to sell them at $499 as AMD aren't offering the rebate now.

i imagine all uk shops would run at a loss selling at usd prices

i am not saying that gibbo is lying, he has always been a stand up guy when we have interacted in the past. but i am highlighting the slanted point of view raven puts on many of these news articles and questioning how much investigation went into this before it went live.

i don't think amd has any distribution in the uk, so where are the retailers like clockers and the rest buying them from? are they bumping the cost as they know the shops will still be able to add their cut and shift them without issue?

was amd, overclockers or even gibbo himself spoken too to get clarification on the points raised in the op or is it just click bait to stir up the flame wars (in here and facebook) that the mods and most older members have had enough of?

as it really does read like click/flame bait to me. sorry.

but is anybody really shocked by the fact the prices have gone up?

amd cards (nv too of late) have all been overpriced for months with the latest wave of mining :|

 

[MAXLD]

Prices in Europe on the first week of any launch are always bananas. Not only you have to wait at least one or two full weeks to see any stabilization around the MSRP and stocks, but in this case (gpus), nothing really makes sense until custom cards arrive (+ another 1~2 weeks for prices to calm down... not considering mining interference, though). Specially when talking about AMD cards which always brings below average reference coolers (exception for the HD5850's a bunch of years ago).

Therefore, not saying that things will be radically different, but there's really no clear conclusions to reach at this point in time. Only by mid-September we can actually even evaluate Vega cards correctly, by:
- custom cards price/stocks (which are the ones people want to buy)
- actual final performance (w/ better tuned drivers by then and several "OC" card versions around fighting the long established custom GTXs)
- thermal/noise performance (with proper designed custom coolers)

R9 290/X launch was a clear typical case of jumping into conclusions, one that some review sites completely went full rabid, riding the reference cooler storm in search of click bait before the actual cards people wanted (customs) could arrive. In the end, when they finally launched, all that went calm and quiet, because custom cards nullified the problems, and transformed the cards into a must buy, specially the R9 290 (and I'm even not talking about mining at all).

Now, not saying custom Vegas will be GTX beaters, specially in the 64 case, but the custom 56 really has a good chance to be an even greater card than it already looks to be. Even to the point of nVidia being pushed into finally revealing a "1070 Ti".
Bottom line:
- If (custom cards) stocks/prices stabilize in Sept around a decent value, then we'll have a great card.
- If not, and if mining also does the same thing it did to the RX 580s, then Vega is a bust, consumer wise.

Until that time comes, not much really matters with the reference ones. Whoever chooses to wait and see what happens, is doing the right thing. Whoever cannot wait that much time, then GTX it is (even though a "1070 Ti" shadow can be lurking around).

 

[EarthDog]

Well so I personally don't worry about energy usage. I understand in some European countries it is a major issue, but I live in the US. I will say though that since I started building mining rigs again I haven't noticed any increase in my energy bill (My July bill was actually lower than June lol).

Second, I think the people selling their coins the second they make them are suckers. I mine the coins I believe have promise, and then I sell them slowly as they increase in value. I guess you could argue I am more of a venture capitalist than a pure miner, but in my opinion it's silly to just blindly mine and sell. After all if you are selling a coin the second you mine it, why are you even bothering? Clearly you don't think it is worth anything....

But I will answer your question. If I combine the profits from dual mining Ethereum and Siacoin (Again, Vega is especially good at mining 2 coins at once), then I would make roughly $130 per month. But again, that's at today's prices. I also use this card to game, and I can sell the extra cards for $400+ in a few months. So if it breaks even, I have already made a large profit if I sell the cards!

But, the bottom line is ROI is a lot longer according to the numbers you gave us. Have you done the math?

 

[dyonoctis]

I didn't. Can you read English?

I will quote myself because apparently you can't: " it is more efficient, you can fit twice as many in the same amount of space, and most importantly: they are in stock! As long as RX 580's are above $250, RX Vega's will be hard to find."


I will say it again for those who are reading at elementary levels: The RX 580 is going for $350+ right now. That makes Vega a steal for $500-$600.

That doesn't change anything :| Even with the current price of the RX 580 a lot of miners still don't want Vega. And you did said that vega was the new gold standard. I'm not making stuff up.
You are getting offensive pretty fast :|.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/rx-vegas-low-mining-speeds.236150/

"The reason for low stock right now might be that AMD didnt have lots of stock or the price gouging people are the reason. Any sane miner will not even touch any RX Vega for their mining enjoyment. "

 

[dorsetknob]

Did You mean

hold stock for special custominers,

Unless some driver comes out in the next month

like Today

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...fically-geared-for-blockchain-compute.236193/

Sad to Say Some members need to edit their posts to remove some of the not so pleasant personal attacks before the mods clean up and issue points

 

[qubit]

I just want to get a vega card to play with, I dont even mine.

Spoken like a true enthusiast. You don't need a reason or justification to want it.

I want an iPad Pro 12.9" at about £860. I can't think of any business reason at all for having it except that I had one before and I really liked it, so I want it again. End. At that price, I can't buy it at the moment, unfortunately.

 

[Captain_Tom]

Did You mean


like Today

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...fically-geared-for-blockchain-compute.236193/

Sad to Say Some members need to edit their posts to remove some of the not so pleasant personal attacks before the mods clean up and issue points

Haha thanks for the link man. This fixes the DAG issue, but this isn't what I mean when I say further driver enhancements. (I expect a tad more than just this)

But, the bottom line is ROI is a lot longer according to the numbers you gave us. Have you done the math?

I have. A 580 makes like $80 a month (Remember I said ~50% better hashing?). Right now the RX 580 is selling for $350 - $400, and Vega takes up the same amount of space.


ROI isn't as good, but Vega is the best mining card by a respectable margin.

 

[EarthDog]

How can the ROI, one of the most important variables to a miner, "isn't as good" yet vega "is the best mining card by a respectable margin"? What is the ROI on a 580 vs RXV64? RXV56? I think you will find the 56 is a lot more attractive. I also believe you will find the ROI is longer on the 64 vs 580. Isn't the goal to get profitable as fast as one can, hence why the ROI is such an important value to the mining community?

Its weird... it feels like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth... ROI isn't as good, yet its the best mining card by a respectable margin???????????????? I get it in total hash rate, but it takes longer to make a profit.. its riskier to get these faster, yet more expensive/longer ROI cards.

But yeah, I would like to see some calculations, including power use (may not affect you, but it affects the overwhelming majority who does mine), price, and posted hash rates (Sure it can be tweaked, but we haven't seen it yet... lets use concrete values for now)...................

.......................

EDIT: Using the latest beta driver... https://www.techpowerup.com/img/dcfzl8FkuCntOyhc.jpg

 

[dorsetknob]

but this isn't what I mean when I say further driver enhancements. (I expect a tad more than just this)

The Driver update i linked to is a Beta ( a work in progress )
There will almost Certainly be further release's which will address further improvements/enhancements

 

[cdawall]

I have. A 580 makes like $80 a month (Remember I said ~50% better hashing?). Right now the RX 580 is selling for $350 - $400, and Vega takes up the same amount of space.


ROI isn't as good, but Vega is the best mining card by a respectable margin.

What Vega card do you have I can average 30-32mh/s out of a 480/580. Hell I got 34+ out of 390/390x's. Which is all vega is getting right now. Unless someone figures out the lack of performance we are seeing out of them they are no better at mining than a 390x from years ago at not only performance but p/w.

ROI is garbage. I still assume drivers and the actual miner will earn more performance, but as it sits that is a hope and a prayer. Vega core with gddr5 will be a better option fkr mining assuming they dont use the garbage memory design they did on Polaris and do something similar to the 512bit bus on the Hawaii cards.

 

[Tomgang]

You have a GTX 1080 Ti, of course your going to keep it, why would you even of thought of not keeping it in the first place? I find this statement very bizarre



Jim Keller isnt owned by AMD, he was hired by AMD and then he goes on his merry way to another company to help them with a new design and so on, so he couldnt of "left" the company when he was never owned by AMD in the first place, he is basically a sub contractor and a bloody Legend really lol

I dit considering trying AMD for the first time cause i exspected more from vega than the performence we have seen and TDP is as well stupid high and price is if the latest rumers are true to exspensive for the performence you get. So all in all i dropped that plan again. Well lets just say Vega where for me a let down for what i exspected from it like the water cooled version at least beaten 1080 non ti with a good margin but that dit not even hold true.

 

[ERazer]

its just hard to accept for some ppl that they waited this long just be disappointed.

disappointed in performance, prices, availability, and the wait for driver to mature.

 

[Countryside]

its just hard to accept for some ppl that they waited this long just be disappointed.

disappointed in performance, prices, availability, and the wait for driver to mature.

Its like a punch of kindergarten children expecting a toy to perform much better when it preforms as much as it was advertised to perform.

 

[ERazer]

Its like a punch of kindergarten children expecting a toy to perform much better when it preforms as much as it was advertised to perform.

let be honest would ppl wait if they knew the performance is the same as 1080? of course we don't have magic ball to peek to the future thus all we can do is be disappointed.

not bashing AMD i just feel bad for ppl that waited.

 

[Xzibit]

with kepler nvidia still use one architecture for all purpose. if you look at GK110 and GK104 the SM arrangement still the same. just that GK104 FP64 performance was being limited even more than GK110 (Fermi GF100 and GF104 are also like this). but starting with kepler we did saw that nvidia willing to make more specific product for the professional line up only. GK210 for example is exclusive to tesla prodcut. maxwell is pure FP32 architecture. only with pascal nvidia truly make separate architecture for compute and gaming. GP100 have 64 cuda cores per SM. GP102 and the rest have 128 cuda cores per SM (similar to maxwell).

You also have to take into consideration that companies are developing in-house ASIC TPUs for their AI needs.

Google
IBM - Nvidia partner in NVlink
Microsoft
Amazon
HP
Qualcomm

Nvidia is also tryn to keep as much customers as it has. Professional/Consumer products are becoming less overlapable as before.

 

[B-Real]

AMD is a joke and their graphics division is run by a joke. Vega is a disaster any way you look at it. They haven't made any tangible improvements to their graphics IP since GCN came out back in 2012. Their Chinese design team sucks and they've got nothing going for them. Jim Keller and most of the people who had worked on Zen have left the company too. AMD is a sinking ship. I wouldn't buy any of their products because the competition is better and cheaper.

Hehe. Go and cry in the corner please. As I remember, considering the GPU division, the RX480 was cheaper than the GTX1060. Check Amazon CPU top seller list. Ryzen is selling really well. Good night!

 

[Captain_Tom]

What Vega card do you have I can average 30-32mh/s out of a 480/580. Hell I got 34+ out of 390/390x's. Which is all vega is getting right now. Unless someone figures out the lack of performance we are seeing out of them they are no better at mining than a 390x from years ago at not only performance but p/w.

ROI is garbage. I still assume drivers and the actual miner will earn more performance, but as it sits that is a hope and a prayer. Vega core with gddr5 will be a better option fkr mining assuming they dont use the garbage memory design they did on Polaris and do something similar to the 512bit bus on the Hawaii cards.

Look, I will return in a couple days to tell you my results if you want. I don't want to make any bold statements until I verify them for myself. But Vega is not getting 34 MH/s just like your 390X. I can at least assure you of that...

 

[Captain_Tom]

let be honest would ppl wait if they knew the performance is the same as 1080? of course we don't have magic ball to peek to the future thus all we can do is be disappointed.

not bashing AMD i just feel bad for ppl that waited.

No one should have waited if a 1070, 1080, or 1080 Ti would have made them happy months (years?) ago.

If you wanted 1080 Ti - level performance, there was no reason to wait for Vega when you could have just bought a 1080 Ti! For those that are building enthusiast PC's now, Vega is a nice option.

 

[cdawall]

Look, I will return in a couple days to tell you my results if you want. I don't want to make any bold statements until I verify them for myself. But Vega is not getting 34 MH/s just like your 390X. I can at least assure you of that...

There is an entire thread showing my statements. Unlike yours it is full of screenshots. Some of which include what you can push a 390x up to. Those cards are pushing over 34mh/s all over the web.

I would wager you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about that and look forward to no response in a couple of days like everyone else who is full of it.

 

[jdubo]

So Newegg has everything sold out even every Radeon Pack. Best buy all 3 version sold out. Amazon you can get a black Vega64 for $999. WTF AMD!?!?!?!?

 

[EarthDog]

Look, I will return in a couple days to tell you my results if you want. I don't want to make any bold statements until I verify them for myself. But Vega is not getting 34 MH/s just like your 390X. I can at least assure you of that...

lol, you already did and are now backpedaling to support your assertions.


Ive posted some results with the latest beta driver and it puts it around 36 mh/s with overclocked memory. Ive asked for actual ROI numbers and, even though youve been doing this since college, the math doesnt seem to support your claims.

Perhaps we/I am missing something...eagerly waiting your response in a couple days.

 

[qubit]

• So I just deleted the first paragraph of your argument. You basically just said "AMD is bad" for 4 sentences. Yup, AMD is late to the party - thanks for stating the obvious. We are here to talk about what we can buy NOW. Not what should have been. After all the 1080 Ti should have launched in 2016.
• Your G-Sync paragraph also falls flat. Did you read anything I said? The main problem isn't even the price, the problem is G-sync is objectively a worse option than Freesync. Less options, less inputs, higher price, and worse monitors in general. Samsung and LG won't even bother to make them because of how silly they are. For the love of God, consoles are about to start using Adaptive sync on budget TV's. That's how behind Nvidia is becoming - oh, and they want $200 for this vastly inferior technology (The crux of your entire argument).
• The MH you quoted is from a bloody gaming website that has made fun of Bitcoin for a decade. Bitcoin is worth $4,200, TPU doesn't know what they are talking about. For reference the 580 get's 23 MH/s at stock and up to 32 when tweaked. Do the math on Vega noob. You do not know what you are talking about.

@W1zzard you officially "don't know what you're talking about" when it comes to mining hash rates. There, you've been told! Please see the explanation of why and learn from our resident expert in this quote above...

Seriously Tom, I see you say a thing like that and I know you can't be reasoned with and hence not worth continuing to discuss this.

 

[the54thvoid]

So, according to a Norwegian tech site and retailer, they were allowed to sell only 275 Vega cards at the low price. After that, back up to the $600 price. Also limited retailers allowed in on the pre order price.
AMD staying quiet for now as they release how manipulative their pricing has been. PR damage control incoming.

 

[Fluffmeister]

They just can't compete on price it seems, the chip is 55% bigger than it's direct competition after all.

 

[W1zzard]

@W1zzard you officially "don't know what you're talking about" when it comes to mining hash rates.

confirmed, feel free to teach me