Are you camping out / lining up for an RTX 4090?

[maxfly]

Sidewalk camping? Not I. I enjoy my recliner far to much to punish myself in such a way. That and the payoff, payin? mmmnah.

 

[Flanker]

No. It's physically impossible to fit in my case lmao

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Imagine being that one fellow who voted yes, and wondering what's happening over here.

5 people did say maybe lol.


I personally try not to judge what others do for something they are passionate about pretty sure most of us have done crazy/stupid shit for something we wanted.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm not even sure I understand why people camp for stuff, doing without isn't so bad.

I'd rather do without then shop camp

@wheresmycar joy and pain.

If you find me camping, its gonna be something like this, certainly not on concrete and in between sweaty nerds with unhealthy consumerism

I personally try not to judge what others do for something they are passionate about pretty sure most of us have done crazy/stupid shit for something we wanted.

I try very hard not to judge as well, but the fact remains, what others do and especially those with 'passion' does affect the rest of us. The lack of judgment in free societies is a real problem we're choking on, so yeah.. To each their own, but its not wrong to put some perspective here and there, just to reflect on. Capitalism lacks that because its good for business

Choices matter.

 

[Chomiq]

are we forced as regular consumers to buy a bot to secure a 4090 at launch?

Sneaker scalpers are here to stay. "Ants", as we call them here, will queue up in front of BestBuy, Micro Center, etc as "gamers" only to grab as many cards as they can for cash and then try to sell them off to people standing in queue behind them. Remember Bitwit's videos from Cali? Some random chicks with hard cash showing up from nowhere offering to buy the cards of off anyone. If they fail at that they'll just post them on craiglist/ebay etc.
Question remains - are people THAT stupid to fall for this scalping BS when crypto wave has ended?

 

[Vayra86]

Sneaker scalpers are here to stay. "Ants", as we call them here, will queue up in front of BestBuy, Micro Center, etc as "gamers" only to grab as many cards as they can for cash and then try to sell them off to people standing in queue behind them. Remember Bitwit's videos from Cali? Some random chicks with hard cash showing up from nowhere offering to buy the cards of off anyone. If they fail at that they'll just post them on craiglist/ebay etc.
Question remains - are people THAT stupid to fall for this scalping BS when crypto wave has ended?

Look at those camping in line and you have an answer. There is a market for every segment of stupid, however niche it may be

 

[wolf]

Just about daily I see people make far worse social/financial choices than spending $1600 USD on a luxury entertainment product that actually probably works out to at most $2-3 per hour of entertainment over the lifespan/ownership time of the product. Does that make it right? no, but I'll focus on the more important things, and steer clear of the much larger and more detrimental (financially and socially) products, and only silently judge the people that buy them.

 

[the54thvoid]

Just about daily I see people make far worse social/financial choices than spending $1600 USD on a luxury entertainment product that actually probably works out to at most $2-3 per hour of entertainment over the lifespan/ownership time of the product. Does that make it right? no, but I'll focus on the more important things, and steer clear of the much larger and more detrimental (financially and socially) products, and only silently judge the people that buy them.

We're specifically talking about camping out in a line to get one.

Purchasing one isn't the issue of the OP vote.

And to be serious, the psychology of consumer anxiety is exacerbated by the notion of huge queues lining up before the store opens. The 'triggered' individual then joins said line, creating a self-fulfilling problem.

 

[nguyen]

Oh well as long as those camping out are buying for themselves, no harm no foul I guess

Scalpers on the other hand can go screw themselves...

 

[ARF]

I think it's incredibly optimistic to think that, even if the 7800XT even offers 80% of 4090 performance (tall order, but not impossible), it will be ~$480 (30% of the price) and 225w (50% of the power). I mean, we can hope right, and for sure that would make them exceptionally compelling products, but would bet money the cost and power consumption would be significantly higher.

Possible. It can be 80% the performance at 40%-50% the price and 70% the power consumption. It would still be much much better than RTX 4090.

 

[Chrispy_]

After the initial problems of Ampere, I would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense would give it a couple of weeks to see if they're stable.

If Ampere at 320W caused bluescreens, had driver issues, and uncovered a whole load of issues that nobody had previously expected, a 600W monstrosity based on a new PCIe and new power spec might be good reason to wait and see.

There's also the chance that AMD's next-gen are better. We don't know yet but I'd be bummed about dropping $2000 on a 4090 only to have an RX 7900XT run cicles around it for the same price or less.

 

[igralec84]

Will try my luck on NBB for the FE but i've already seen this movie 2 years ago

 

[ARF]

After the initial problems of Ampere, I would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense would give it a couple of weeks to see if they're stable.

If Ampere at 320W caused bluescreens, had driver issues, and uncovered a whole load of issues that nobody had previously expected, a 600W monstrosity based on a new PCIe and new power spec might be good reason to wait and see.

There's also the chance that AMD's next-gen are better. We don't know yet but I'd be bummed about dropping $2000 on a 4090 only to have an RX 7900XT run cicles around it for the same price or less.

AMD needs to execute better because this time round it will have the inferior N5+N6 processes against nvidia using the better N4.
AMD needs something of a change like the Radeon HD 3870 -->> Radeon HD 4870.
Going from 320 shaders on 55 nm to 800 shaders on 55 nm in only 33% bigger die.

For some weird reason the Navi 21 is less dense compared to the base capability of TSMC N7 process.

 

[wolf]

We're specifically talking about camping out in a line to get one.

Purchasing one isn't the issue of the OP vote.

Indeed you're correct, others have certainly made it an issue of purchasing one in this thread, which prompted my post.

 

[Vayra86]

AMD needs to execute better because this time round it will have the inferior N5+N6 processes against nvidia using the better N4.
AMD needs something of a change like the Radeon HD 3870 -->> Radeon HD 4870.
Going from 320 shaders on 55 nm to 800 shaders on 55 nm in only 33% bigger die.

For some weird reason the Navi 21 is less dense compared to the base capability of TSMC N7 process.

View attachment 264839

View attachment 264840

Density is limited by the node
but it is determined by the design/architecture.
The practical max of a node's density varies even on a single design/chip on a single node, depending on what kind of work is done in each block.
For most if not all chips, the 'density' is never the theoretical maximum density of the node.

Just about daily I see people make far worse social/financial choices than spending $1600 USD on a luxury entertainment product that actually probably works out to at most $2-3 per hour of entertainment over the lifespan/ownership time of the product. Does that make it right? no, but I'll focus on the more important things, and steer clear of the much larger and more detrimental (financially and socially) products, and only silently judge the people that buy them.

Absolutely, just buying a top end card isn't always turning into bad value and you can definitely do worse! Then again, we saw what happened with Turing's 2080ti in terms of, for example, resale value. New gen will slash the price hardest on the top end.

Still I think, like it does for CPU for quite a while now and has been doing for GPU since shortages, the resale value of past-gen components is going to go up, and buying higher-end is going to be more likely to keep its value. As the performance/watt and absolute performance increase per gen starts falling flat, the value of old components remains.

The fact is I can probably STILL sell a GTX 1080 with significant age at over 250 bucks today, easily half of what it cost at the time.

And look at the 3090 now compared to its successor. That will keep its value as well, much better than previous generations used to do, simply because the 4090 is so horrible

 

[Dr. Dro]

I think it's incredibly optimistic to think that, even if the 7800XT even offers 80% of 4090 performance (tall order, but not impossible), it will be ~$480 (30% of the price) and 225w (50% of the power). I mean, we can hope right, and for sure that would make them exceptionally compelling products, but would bet money the cost and power consumption would be significantly higher.

It's not incredibly optimistic, it's downright delusional. AMD wants to make money and if their products have competitive performance and end up cheaper to manufacture, they will fatten their margins and profit instead.

This good guy AMD image in people's heads has really gotta go. They're a company with the objective of making money for their shareholders.

 

[neatfeatguy]

Sneaker scalpers are here to stay. "Ants", as we call them here, will queue up in front of BestBuy, Micro Center, etc as "gamers" only to grab as many cards as they can for cash and then try to sell them off to people standing in queue behind them. Remember Bitwit's videos from Cali? Some random chicks with hard cash showing up from nowhere offering to buy the cards of off anyone. If they fail at that they'll just post them on craiglist/ebay etc.
Question remains - are people THAT stupid to fall for this scalping BS when crypto wave has ended?

I'm not sure about other Micro Centers, but the one by me, they stopped doing a "first come, first serve" for those that show up to camp. They changed over to, put your name on the digital list and all people on the list will be randomly picked for a chance to buy a GPU. At least that's how they were doing the Ampere/RDNA2 cards for the last stretch of the hard to get a GPU days.

Show up at 4am and be first on the list, didn't matter. Your chances to get picked are the same as the guy that showed up at 9:58am and got their name on the list before the store opened.

Then, eventually it came down to not enough people were showing up for new GPU shipments (this was around end of October last year). I had to stop in there a couple of times between then and early November and it was around 4pm, they were still selling off cards ranging from 3060 to 3080s. You just needed to show up, stand in a line inside the store and be willing to spend money.

As for scalpers, I'm hoping they lose out on things this round. Hopefully they'll be taken down a peg and back off some.

 

[R0H1T]

5 people did say maybe lol.

Looks like a few of'em changed party as well

N5+N6 processes against nvidia using the better N4

N4 is only marginally better than N5P & probably a tiny bit more wrt N5, the next big node jump is on 3nm.

TSMC Unveils N4X Node: Extreme High-Performance at High Voltages

www.anandtech.com

 

[Arco]

I am going to buy numerous RTX 4090s by walking in and out with different outfits, glasses, and using wigs. You shall never get the RTX 4090. jk

 

[P4-630]

I am going to buy numerous RTX 4090s by walking in and out with different outfits, glasses, and using wigs. You shall never get the RTX 4090. jk

Haha, with a stolen creditcard collection?...

 

[Arco]

Haha, with a stolen creditcard collection?...

Even worse, I have started a hedge fund with gamers. But they don't realize they will never get their cards!

 

[Dr. Dro]

Even worse, I have started a hedge fund with gamers. But they don't realize they will never get their cards!

Oh, you cryptocurrency baron, you.

As for scalpers, I'm hoping they lose out on things this round. Hopefully they'll be taken down a peg and back off some.

Scalping is only a problem when demand far outweighs supply. The market has largely died down, the current generation hardware is already exceptionally powerful, adding to the extremely high prices of this new generation coming now and with Ethereum going back to the chasm from whence it came + the digital dwarves of Moria have run into the Balrog miners have not yet settled on their next scam digital token and with people back to their daily lives and daily jobs, I wouldn't worry much about it.

 

[ARF]

N4 is only marginally better than N5P & probably a tiny bit more wrt N5, the next big node jump is on 3nm.

I know. However, it is up to AMD to mess the things up big time this time, like they did numerous times in the past, Radeon HD 2900 XT, Radeon RX Vega 64, Radeon RX 5700 XT and the other smaller failures.
Remember that AMD promised only 50% performance-per-watt improvement?

50% is nothing compared to the 82% performance improvement of RTX 4090 over RTX 3090. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 3DMark scores leaked, at least 82% faster than RTX 3090 - VideoCardz.com

This means that the performance gap between Radeon and GeForce will widen, and this time AMD will compete with RTX 4080-16 in the most optimistic scenario.

 

[3x0]

Remember that AMD promised only 50% performance-per-watt improvement?

50% is nothing compared to the 82% performance improvement of RTX 4090 over RTX 3090.

You're comparing performance per watt improvement to a performance improvement regardless of power consumption in case of the 4090. AMD can increase the power limits the same way nV did and get the same total performance improvement generation to generation.

 

[ARF]

You're comparing performance per watt improvement to a performance improvement regardless of power consumption in case of the 4090. AMD can increase the power limits the same way nV did and get the same total performance improvement generation to generation.

All right, the base line is still 10% more performance in favour of the RTX 3090 Ti over the Radeon RX 6950 XT.
So, we see 82% better RTX 4090 over RTX 3090.
~~50% improvement of a 350-watt Radeon RX 7000 over Radeon RX 6950 XT.
and ~~10% performance interiority of the RX 6950 XT compared to RTX 3090 Ti (not speaking about RT where the performance gap is gigantic).