• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

ASRock Uses External Clock Generators to Circumvent Intel non-K BClk OC Limits

Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
44 (0.01/day)
System Name Dricast
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H
Cooling Corsair A70
Memory 12GB Mushkin DDR3
Video Card(s) 2x EVGA Geforce GTX460@GTX560 Clocks in SLI
Storage SanDisk 120GB SSD, Hitatchi 1TB, Hitatchi 2TB
Display(s) Dell 24"
Case Antec 902
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair 750TX
Software Windows 7 Ultimate
yeah pretty much what @Aquinus is saying


Yeah, you can OC all AMD chips, but when a Max overclocked FX-9590 can barely match an i3-6100 at stock, then overclocking on AMD is at best a pyrrhic victory.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
1,927 (0.44/day)
Location
UK
System Name TITAN Slayer / CPUCannon / MassFX
Processor i7 5960X @ 4.6Ghz / i7 3960x @5.0Ghz / FX6350 @ 4.?Ghz
Motherboard Rampage V Extreme / Rampage IV Extreme / MSI 970 Gaming
Cooling Phanteks PHTC14PE 2.5K 145mm TRs / Custom waterloop / Phanteks PHTC14PE + 3K 140mm Noctuas
Memory Crucial 2666 11-13-13-25 1.45V / G.skill RipjawsX 2400 10-12-12-34 1.7V / Crucial 2133 9-9-9-27 1.7V
Video Card(s) 3 Fury X in CF / R9 Fury 3840 cores 1145/570 1.3V / Nothing ATM
Storage 500GB Crucial SSD and 3TB WD Black / WD 1TB Black(OS) + WD 3TB Green / WD 1TB Blue
Display(s) LG 29UM67 80Hz/Asus mx299q 2560x1080 @ 84Hz / Asus VX239 1920x1080 @60hz
Case Dismatech easy v3.0 / Xigmatek Alfar (Open side panel)
Audio Device(s) M-audio M-track / realtek ALC 1150
Power Supply EVGA G2 1600W / CoolerMaster V1000 / Seasonic 620 M12-II
Mouse Mouse in review process/Razer Naga Epic 2011/Razer Naga 2014
Keyboard Keyboard in review process / Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2014/Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2011
Software Windows 7 Ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate
Benchmark Scores cinebench 15.41 3960x @ 5.3ghz Wprime32m 3.352 3960x @ 5.25ghz Super PI 32m: 6m 42s 472ms @5.25ghz
Anything that doesn't have a unlocked multiplier on FM2/AM1 has the same limitation as Intel. Yes you can technically overclock them by raising the BCLK, but you can technically overclock any Intel in the same way. However, you won't get very far before things like the PCI-E Bus or SATA ports start to get unstable.



The K chips were just an answer to the small niche market of people that overclock. Integrating the northbridge onto the CPU and running both off a single clock generator meant good overclocking by raising the BCLK was no longer possible. AMD faced the same problem with their designs when they integrated the northbridge completely. AM3+ was the last platform to have an external northbridge, and the last platform that could seriously be overclocked by adjusting the FSB/BCLK.



AMD does have a lot more unlocked CPUs, but that is kind of their marketing gimmick. The entire FX line is unlocked but ironically that are the only ones that didn't need to be. And I wouldn't say the BCLK headroom on AMD's APUs is that much more than on Intel, a small amount maybe, but not a lot.

you can run the FM2 chips with 120BCLK just fine. I didn't run into any major problems until I was trying to go over 130mhz on a Kaveri chip.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
4,279 (1.11/day)
Location
Texas
System Name SnowFire / The Reinforcer
Processor i7 10700K 5.1ghz (24/7) / 2x Xeon E52650v2
Motherboard Asus Strix Z490 / Dell Dual Socket (R720)
Cooling RX 360mm + 140mm Custom Loop / Dell Stock
Memory Corsair RGB 16gb DDR4 3000 CL 16 / DDR3 128gb 16 x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX Titan XP (2025mhz) / Asus GTX 950 (No Power Connector)
Storage Samsung 970 1tb NVME and 2tb HDD x4 RAID 5 / 300gb x8 RAID 5
Display(s) Acer XG270HU, Samsung G7 Odyssey (1440p 240hz)
Case Thermaltake Cube / Dell Poweredge R720 Rack Mount Case
Audio Device(s) Realtec ALC1150 (On board)
Power Supply Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt / Dell Stock 750 / Brick
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G19S
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows Server 2016
Hmm, interesting Asrock. Might have to give it a try sometime on a low end i5 with the H170 board. Would be interesting to see how far I could push it!
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.57/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
More than likely how the external clock generator is wired to the CPU.
That would be a complete motherboard rework though... and this fast (fast as in, they just put up microcode to stop this a month or so ago)???
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
6,877 (1.47/day)
Location
Florida
System Name natr0n-PC
Processor Ryzen 5950x-5600x | 9600k
Motherboard B450 AORUS M | Z390 UD
Cooling EK AIO 360 - 6 fan action | AIO
Memory Patriot - Viper Steel DDR4 (B-Die)(4x8GB) | Samsung DDR4 (4x8GB)
Video Card(s) EVGA 3070ti FTW
Storage Various
Display(s) Pixio PX279 Prime
Case Thermaltake Level 20 VT | Black bench
Audio Device(s) LOXJIE D10 + Kinter Amp + 6 Bookshelf Speakers Sony+JVC+Sony
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex III ARGB 80+ Gold 650W | EVGA 700 Gold
Software XP/7/8.1/10
Benchmark Scores http://valid.x86.fr/79kuh6
Asrock's always innovating.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
503 (0.13/day)
System Name Personal Rig
Processor Intel i5 3570K
Motherboard Asus P8Z77-V
Cooling Noctua NH-U12P Push/Pull
Memory 8GB 1600Mhz Vengeance
Video Card(s) Intel HD4000
Storage Seagate 1TB & 180GB Intel 330
Display(s) AOC I2360P
Case Enermax Vostok
Audio Device(s) Onboard realtek
Power Supply Corsair TX650
Mouse Microsoft OEM 2.0
Keyboard Logitech Internet Pro White
Software Legal ;)
Benchmark Scores Very big
you can run the FM2 chips with 120BCLK just fine. I didn't run into any major problems until I was trying to go over 130mhz on a Kaveri chip.
without ahci though..
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,473 (4.11/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
That would be a complete motherboard rework though... and this fast (fast as in, they just put up microcode to stop this a month or so ago)???

It would be naive to think AsRock wasn't working on an alternative knowing Intel would try to stop BCLK overclocking the traditional way AsRock figured out.

you can run the FM2 chips with 120BCLK just fine. I didn't run into any major problems until I was trying to go over 130mhz on a Kaveri chip.

With AHCI I've never gotten much past 105MHz, maybe 110MHz. If and I have a graphics card plugged into the PCI-E slot, forget going over 105MHz even without AHCI.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.57/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Biting the hand that feeds you is NEVER a good idea.... There is a reason all the GPU MFG comply with NVIDIA... same here with Intel...

I hear you, but, knowing what I(we) know about how that works, I guess I must live in that naive camp on this one. :)
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,473 (4.11/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Biting the hand that feeds you is NEVER a good idea.... There is a reason all the GPU MFG comply with NVIDIA... same here with Intel...

I hear you, but, knowing what I(we) know about how that works, I guess I must live in that naive camp on this one. :)

I think Intel won't really take notice since it is something AsRock is only doing on a couple niche boards. If AsRock was doing it on all their non-Z170 boards, and publishing how to do it so others can copy it, I think Intel would be a little more pissed.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
1,703 (0.26/day)
Location
Oshkosh, WI
System Name ChoreBoy
Processor 8700k Delided
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 Master
Cooling 420mm Custom Loop
Memory CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 2x8GB @ 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 SC
Storage 1TB SX8200, 250GB 850 EVO, 250GB Barracuda
Display(s) Pixio PX329 and Dell E228WFP
Case Fractal R6
Audio Device(s) On-Board
Power Supply 1000w Corsair
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A million on everything....
I think the point is that AMD CPUs need to be overclocked to match stock Intel ones, because AMD are now 4-5 gens behind Intel there is no need for Intel to compete right now hence their overclocking being tied up and their "improvements" getting less and less with each generation.

The sad thing is if AMD do ever manage to catch up Intel can just stop dragging their feet and jump into the lead again so it's unlikely this cycle will ever break unless Intel end up with another design failure like the Pentium 4.

Come on, you know that AMD's gonna come back with Zen and spank Intel.

Intel's been on on i7's for ages... Yeah the i7's are good but they only thing they really have on AMD is 14nm--in my opinion. An FX chip at 14nm would have like a gazillion cores.

Why don't they just put one or two i7 and 16 FX cores onto a single chip. I think that's what next. hmm.... I'm sick of all this integrated graphics bullshit lol.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2005
Messages
658 (0.09/day)
AMD platforms still rely on external clock-gen chips. Even Intel used them, until they integrated it to the CPU die with Sandy Bridge.


BTW, it's in the PCH now, and Intel offers the ability for manufacturers to add a secondary clock generator for higher margins (over 200MHz). Most Z170 motherboards have the external clock generator for higher margins.
blck.PNG


It is true ASRock is really the only one to offer it on H and B series boards, but if you ask me, its presence on this board could also be mentioned: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty E3V5 Performance GamingOC/
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (1.00/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.
but they only thing they really have on AMD is 14nm

Can you name AMD CPU that beats my BLOODY ANCIENT i5 750 which was BUILT ON 45 NM TECH in:
1) Single threaded performance
2) Perf/Watt

?
=/
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,056 (3.83/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Lenovo ThinkCentre
Processor AMD 5650GE
Motherboard Lenovo
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Lenovo
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
Can you name AMD CPU that beats my BLOODY ANCIENT i5 750 which was BUILT ON 45 NM TECH in:
1) Single threaded performance
2) Perf/Watt

?
=/
This isn't a pissing contest, take it somewhere else.
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
19,064 (3.00/day)
Location
UK\USA
Hmm... looks fine to me...

I wonder if they wont be slapped by daddy Intel for borking their market.

Yeah might make Intel have a cry baby incident.

With the SATA plugs like they are i would not buy this my self, not into the branding either.

so when will intel finally cave in and just make overclocking free for everybody like it used to?


Intel have always been hostile about overclocking, even more so when they did not want you to do it.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
128 (0.04/day)
System Name Ryzen 5800X-PC / RyzenITX (2nd system 5800X stock)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (atx) / 5800X itx (soon one pc getting 5800X3D upgrade! ;)
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER (ATX) / X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi (ITX)
Cooling AMD Wrath Prism Cooler / Alphenhone Blackridge (ITX)
Memory OLOY 4000Mhz 16GB x 2 (32GB) DDR4 4000 Mhz CL18, (22,22,22,42) 1.40v AT & ITX PC's (2000 Fclk)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (ATX) /// AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 12GB GDDR6 (ITX)
Storage (Sys)Sammy 970EVO 500GB & SabrentRocket 4.0+ 2TB (ATX) | SabrentRocket4.0+ 1TB NVMe (ITX)
Display(s) 30" Ultra-Wide 21:9 200Hz/AMD FREESYNC 200hz/144hz LED LCD Montior Connected Via Display Port (x2)
Case Lian Li Lancool II Mesh (ATX) / Velkase Velka 7 (ITX)
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD ALC1220 codec / Onboard HD Audio* (BOTH) w/ EQ settings
Power Supply 850w (Antec High-Current Gamer) HC-850 PSU (80+ gold certified) ATX) /650Watt Thermaltake SFX (ITX)
Mouse Logitech USB Wireless KB & MOUSE (Both Systems)
Keyboard Logitech USB Wireless KB & MOUSE (Both Systems)
VR HMD Oculus Quest 2 - 128GB - Standalone + Oculus link PC
Software Windows 10 Home x64bit 2400 /BOTH SYSTEMS
Benchmark Scores CPUZ - ATX-5800X (ST:670) - (MT: 6836.3 ) CPUZ - ITX -5800X (ST:680.2) - (MT: 7015.2) ??? same CPU?
I think the point is that AMD CPUs need to be overclocked to match stock Intel ones, because AMD are now 4-5 gens behind Intel there is no need for Intel to compete right now hence their overclocking being tied up and their "improvements" getting less and less with each generation.

The sad thing is if AMD do ever manage to catch up Intel can just stop dragging their feet and jump into the lead again so it's unlikely this cycle will ever break unless Intel end up with another design failure like the Pentium 4.

BIG INTEL vs small amd = not fiar fight/// intel always hits below the belt against amd,
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
128 (0.04/day)
System Name Ryzen 5800X-PC / RyzenITX (2nd system 5800X stock)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (atx) / 5800X itx (soon one pc getting 5800X3D upgrade! ;)
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER (ATX) / X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi (ITX)
Cooling AMD Wrath Prism Cooler / Alphenhone Blackridge (ITX)
Memory OLOY 4000Mhz 16GB x 2 (32GB) DDR4 4000 Mhz CL18, (22,22,22,42) 1.40v AT & ITX PC's (2000 Fclk)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (ATX) /// AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 12GB GDDR6 (ITX)
Storage (Sys)Sammy 970EVO 500GB & SabrentRocket 4.0+ 2TB (ATX) | SabrentRocket4.0+ 1TB NVMe (ITX)
Display(s) 30" Ultra-Wide 21:9 200Hz/AMD FREESYNC 200hz/144hz LED LCD Montior Connected Via Display Port (x2)
Case Lian Li Lancool II Mesh (ATX) / Velkase Velka 7 (ITX)
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD ALC1220 codec / Onboard HD Audio* (BOTH) w/ EQ settings
Power Supply 850w (Antec High-Current Gamer) HC-850 PSU (80+ gold certified) ATX) /650Watt Thermaltake SFX (ITX)
Mouse Logitech USB Wireless KB & MOUSE (Both Systems)
Keyboard Logitech USB Wireless KB & MOUSE (Both Systems)
VR HMD Oculus Quest 2 - 128GB - Standalone + Oculus link PC
Software Windows 10 Home x64bit 2400 /BOTH SYSTEMS
Benchmark Scores CPUZ - ATX-5800X (ST:670) - (MT: 6836.3 ) CPUZ - ITX -5800X (ST:680.2) - (MT: 7015.2) ??? same CPU?
but this year i hope will be different with amd bringing ZEN, DDR4 amd support, real gen 3 pcie , at 16/14nm finfet, unless intel jumps to 10nm somehow???
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
1,703 (0.26/day)
Location
Oshkosh, WI
System Name ChoreBoy
Processor 8700k Delided
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 Master
Cooling 420mm Custom Loop
Memory CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 2x8GB @ 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 SC
Storage 1TB SX8200, 250GB 850 EVO, 250GB Barracuda
Display(s) Pixio PX329 and Dell E228WFP
Case Fractal R6
Audio Device(s) On-Board
Power Supply 1000w Corsair
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A million on everything....
Can you name AMD CPU that beats my BLOODY ANCIENT i5 750 which was BUILT ON 45 NM TECH in:
1) Single threaded performance
2) Perf/Watt

?
=/
No, but can you name an unlocked Intel CPU that costs 160 bucks and has 8 threads?

If one wants to crunch Super Pi all day, fine. Have fun. The 90's called, they want their single threaded performance back.

And, the only time I care about performance per watt is when I'm using a cell phone or laptop.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.57/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
No, but can you name an unlocked Intel CPU that costs 160 bucks and has 8 threads?

If one wants to crunch Super Pi all day, fine. Have fun. The 90's called, they want their single threaded performance back.

And, the only time I care about performance per watt is when I'm using a cell phone or laptop.
lolololol
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (1.00/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.
No, but can you name an unlocked Intel CPU that costs 160 bucks and has 8 threads?

If one wants to crunch Super Pi all day, fine. Have fun. The 90's called, they want their single threaded performance back.

And, the only time I care about performance per watt is when I'm using a cell phone or laptop.

That was not my point though.
The worst part of the picture is that superior (4 bloody core) i5 750 is on 45nm.
It's not only process advantage, something else is messed up big time.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
1,703 (0.26/day)
Location
Oshkosh, WI
System Name ChoreBoy
Processor 8700k Delided
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 Master
Cooling 420mm Custom Loop
Memory CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 2x8GB @ 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 SC
Storage 1TB SX8200, 250GB 850 EVO, 250GB Barracuda
Display(s) Pixio PX329 and Dell E228WFP
Case Fractal R6
Audio Device(s) On-Board
Power Supply 1000w Corsair
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A million on everything....
That was not my point though.
The worst part of the picture is that superior (4 bloody core) i5 750 is on 45nm.
It's not only process advantage, something else is messed up big time.

Ha! Superiority is relative.

We can argue all day. In the end I know I'm right. And you probably know you're right.

I'll pay 160 for my CPU and spend leftovers on candy.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.57/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Ha! Superiority is relative.

We can argue all day. In the end I know I'm right. And you probably know you're right.

I'll pay 160 for my CPU and spend leftovers on candy.
I will spend a bit more, still have money left over, and have more time to do things because my work finishes faster on less cores... yeah, IPC doesn't matter... good call. :shadedshu:
 
Top