Biden Administration to Revive Trump-Era Tariffs on China-made GPUs and Motherboards

[phubar]

I've mostly been skimming so forgive me if this has already been addressed but I don't see how laser weapons could be considered reliable. How could they be relied on when something like weather could foil them? Rain, fog, cloudy days come to mind.

They work just fine in the rain, fog, etc.

That was figured out years ago: https://newatlas.com/boeing-laser-directed-energy-weapon-fog/33672/

That is regarding a 10KW demonstrator unit but the tech works for all lasers. Supposedly Iron Beam uses something similar but everyone is hush on the details. Its generally regarded to be a solved problem these days.

 

[freeagent]

Wow this thread has veered waay off course.

Impressive.

Anyways... if this is the case with tariffs, then I will be holding on to this PC longer than expected. Will not be forking out for any new hardware until they pull them back.

 

[R-T-B]

Lmao, you're just full of woke prejudice.

I wouldn't call that woke.

Anyways thread is already off the rails.

 

[erocker]

well, there it is, the dumbest take i've seen on the internet today

Outstanding argument.

 

[dicobalt]

Is 25% enough? China has been dumping stuff at cost to get share. It's not even legal so it seems like there's more than a tariff to be called for.

 

[Kapone33]

Wow this thread has veered waay off course.

Impressive.

Anyways... if this is the case with tariffs, then I will be holding on to this PC longer than expected. Will not be forking out for any new hardware until they pull them back.

Why most PC hardware officially comes from Taiwan.

 

[ty_ger]

Nothing makes any opinion instantly discounted as much as using racist terms such as 'first world' and 'third world'.

Unfortunately for us, China has a strength of being able to withstand short-term losses for the benefit of a long-term goal. Our system is too focused on the now and the appeasement of a collective of investors to be able to achieve similar long-term goals. Instead, it seems like we are all wringing out every last drop out of what we have at the present, to the detriment of the future. It really is odd, if you look at it, that such giant US companies can't afford to be a solution.

 

[Kapone33]

Nothing makes any opinion instantly discounted as much as using racist terms such as 'first world' and 'third world'.

Here is an example for you to ponder. On DAZN there is a PPV coming up that is $29.99 unless you live in the US or Canada where it is $69.99. How does that work to the advantage of the "First World"?

 

[dragontamer5788]

Nothing makes any opinion instantly discounted as much as using racist terms such as 'first world' and 'third world'.

There's nothing "racist" about 1st world and 2nd world terms, or 3rd world for that matter.

1st world was USA+friends. 2nd world was USSR+friends. 3rd world was everyone else / neutrals.

With the collapse of the USSR, there's a bunch of countries (India, China, etc. etc.) vying for that 2nd world place. China has historical connections to the USSR / Soviet Bloc though, even if its modern philosophy is clearly closer to Legalism rather than Communism.

 

[ty_ger]

You can say what you want about the origin for first-world, second-world, and third-world, but everyone knows it is a classification system where you classify one above the other. It has nothing to do with the cold war, or otherwise that would be a pretty weird thing to include in this topic with no context.

 

[Kaleid]

Silly decision, it didn't work well then and it won't work now

There's nothing "racist" about 1st world and 2nd world terms, or 3rd world for that matter.

1st world was USA+friends. 2nd world was USSR+friends. 3rd world was everyone else / neutrals.

With the collapse of the USSR, there's a bunch of countries (India, China, etc. etc.) vying for that 2nd world place. China has historical connections to the USSR / Soviet Bloc though, even if its modern philosophy is clearly closer to Legalism rather than Communism.

However, as Hans Rosling points out in his book Factfullness a lot of these terms have been outdated for quite some time. Most people rely on information they learned decades ago and have not updated it for ages

 

[R0H1T]

China has a strength of being able to withstand short-term losses for the benefit of a long-term goal. Our system is too focused on the now and the appeasement of a collective of investors to be able to achieve similar long-term goals. Instead, it seems like we are all wringing out every last drop out of what we have at the present

Let's not give them too much credit, like I posted in the last few pages they've done some awful things as well like those "ghost cities" just to show some growth ~ that's not only wasteful but also a massive waste of money! Same goes for garbage quality components/products then territorial disputes with probably all their neighbours at some point in time in the recent past. And of course their form of govt ~ which is partly debatable IMO because democracy isn't exactly giving us the desired results! Basically they haven't done anything that other major nations haven't in their history but their sole(?) objective of becoming the largest economy in the world is kinda detestable/admirable depending on your point of view.

 

[sassn54]

Was always jealous of US prices on gpus and hardware in general. Hopefully this wont affect the prices in eu as well.

 

[Easo]

After those walls of text my ability to answer died.
Just couple of notes - to the dude and Australian nuclear subs - please reread news about them. They do not exist - they will be there after a decade at earliest.
To the dude who said Taiwan is 2000 km from China - wut??? Cut the number 10 times.
To the dude about deployed laser weapons - you might want to reread about them as well, especially their targets. Even the most basic ballistic missiles are out of scope, much less those at hypersonic speeds.

We could go into other stuff like why would Australia or Japan join war against China if China goes visiting Taiwan, but oh well...
As far as I am concerned it will happen until 2030, hopefully we all will have new PC's by then and some fabs are up and running in the West.

 

[Kapone33]

After those walls of text my ability to answer died.
Just couple of notes - to the dude and Australian nuclear subs - please reread news about them. They do not exist - they will be there after a decade at earliest.
To the dude who said Taiwan is 2000 km from China - wut??? Cut the number 10 times.
To the dude about deployed laser weapons - you might want to reread about them as well, especially their targets. Even the most basic ballistic missiles are out of scope, much less those at hypersonic speeds.

We could go into other stuff like why would Australia or Japan join war against China if China goes visiting Taiwan, but oh well...
As far as I am concerned it will happen until 2030, hopefully we all will have new PC's by then and some fabs are up and running in the West.

With the way the World is right now 6 years from now could be many things depending on the outcome of many conflicts. In 6 years Russia could collapse from invading Ukraine. That would leave China against the free World. Right now in China millions are calling for an end to Xi's rule. In 6 years China may not be the Country we see today. Of course the reverse could also be true. There is no more Kreskin (I did that one on purpose) so no one knows what is going to happen. If you live in a place where you can say this without worry of physical, penal or social reprisal from the Government you want the first scenario to come true.

Taiwan has the capacity right now for the fabs you mention. That is the issue for China. If China thought they could they would have invaded as soon as America restricted them from chips made in their backyard. What the News tells you and what is the truth are often times very different. My father worked on the F22 in the early 80s. I can promise you that as soon as it was confirmed that China had a 3rd Aircraft Carrier, Australia had probably already been supplied with some of the existing fleet. If there is one thing that the US are very capable of producing it is Nuclear Subs so you might be right in the fleet being complete by 2035.

 

[phubar]

To the dude about deployed laser weapons - you might want to reread about them as well, especially their targets. Even the most basic ballistic missiles are out of scope, much less those at hypersonic speeds.

Your earlier claim was there were no viable fielded laser systems for any task at all, just tech demonstrators. I showed otherwise. Talking about ballistics and hypersonics, or even "hypersonics", is obvious goal post shifting from your earlier comment but OK fine.

The reality is those 2 types of missiles are going to be rarely used and can already be defeated by current AD in a carrier group or with current GBAD. Here is a article for instance about a US ship shooting down Iranian medium range ballistic anti ship missiles recently: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-carney-deployment-anti-ship-ballistic-missiles/ Patriot has already shot down Kinzhals in Ukraine too.

They're dangerous but they're not some unstoppable wonderwaffe with 100% effectiveness. Nor are they cheap or easy to produce (the exact opposite in fact, costs alone are borderline unfeasible and production rates are typically less than 10 month for instance for Russia's Kinzhal) so they can't be spammed endlessly or frequently.

The big worry the US and other countries have is swarms of cheap drones with mediocre flight characteristics but deadly explosive packages (ie. Shaheeds), or larger waves of cruise missiles (ie. Kh101, which have production rates of around 100-150 monthly by Russia vs thousands for Shaheeds) in conjuction with the drones, that are deployed with other missiles to saturate AD and cause attacks to get through. Or to cause reduction of AD when anti missile weapon stockpiles are expended and AD becomes ineffective for want of ammo from being forced to defend against the cheap and easy to produce drones constantly*. The 100KW Iron Beam, and other less powerful but still effective laser systems, are ideal for use against them in those types of scenarios since its "ammo" is effectively gas or diesel and they're powerful enough to do the job.

We could go into other stuff like why would Australia or Japan join war against China if China goes visiting Taiwan, but oh well...

The US has treaties with them at a minimum to use their ports in war + they're extremely unhappy with how China has been acting for a while. The current situation has been a rather tense one for at least the last few years at a minimum. Same goes for other countries where the US has bases to operate out of in that region. If you're ignorant of this then you probably shouldn't be talking at all about it.

*“While Western military vessels have advanced air and missile-defence capabilities – using them to down Houthi missiles and UAVs – they are constrained by the number of interceptor missiles they can carry and the challenge of restocking depleted inventories,”

Houthi anti-ship missile systems: getting better all the time

www.iiss.org

 

[64K]

I was just reading about China's response to tariffs. Apparently 344 billion Yuan (47.5 billion USD) has been raised so far mostly by public and private sector financing to bolster China's semiconductor manufacturing. Self-sufficiency being the obvious goal eventually and the benefit to the Chinese military was cited as well.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-sets-up-475-bln-state-fund-boost-semiconductor-industry-2024-05-27/

 

[phubar]

They've been trying to get totally self sufficient for a long long time so this isn't anything new per se nor is it unexpected.

As the article notes this is their 3rd fund they've set up over the years. And most of the money is actually state funds. Its effectively a SWF at this point in everything but name. The majority of the 'private' partners are actually Chinese banks of some sort for instance that are putting in at least 5% a pop and 2 of the outright state owned banks/Chinese Fed are putting in 10%+. Their fabs are effectively state owned as well for the most part too.

If the US or West really wanted to properly kneecap Chinese foundry development they really should've started over 10yr ago IMO*.

As is the latest tariff will cause economic friction for them, and everyone else, but not really do much to stop them. I'd guess its really about making sure US and western efforts to build domestic fabs aren't undercut with cheap Chinese imported chips. Everyone is spending mega bucks on these things and they want to make sure they become financially self sufficient ASAP.

 

[OkieDan]

Nothing makes any opinion instantly discounted as much as using racist terms such as 'first world' and 'third world'.

Unfortunately for us, China has a strength of being able to withstand short-term losses for the benefit of a long-term goal. Our system is too focused on the now and the appeasement of a collective of investors to be able to achieve similar long-term goals. Instead, it seems like we are all wringing out every last drop out of what we have at the present, to the detriment of the future. It really is odd, if you look at it, that such giant US companies can't afford to be a solution.

If china was capable of "long term goals" they would have abandoned one child policies decades earlier. They are much more reactionary than visionary.

 

[64K]

If china was capable of "long term goals" they would have abandoned one child policies decades earlier. They are much more reactionary than visionary.

That's a good insight imo.

 

[ty_ger]

If china was capable of "long term goals" they would have abandoned one child policies decades earlier. They are much more reactionary than visionary.

Conversely, they were visionary about buying cobalt mines in Africa even though they were of little value at the time.

I don't know if I claimed that they were visionary. I was saying that profit doesn't necessarily drive their industry, if they choose a different strategy for the sake of a long-term goal.

We can point/counter-point as much as we want. No human is infallible or can know the future. In general, not relying on capitalism does have the stated benefit.

It's too bad that we don't have a strong sentiment for doing what is good for the benefit of everyone. Capitalism is awesome, but it also allows people to become greedy and allows society to slowly drift towards selfishness and evil.