Big Swing in Market Share From AMD to NVIDIA: JPR

[Tonduluboy]

Actually good for AMD, now they are FORCE to produce better GPU vs Nvidia GTX980/970.

or at least same gaming performances with NV but Cheaper than gtx9xx family. End of the day, we customer who will benefit from this all...

 

[ZoneDymo]

Actually good for AMD, now they are FORCE to produce better GPU vs Nvidia GTX980/970.

or at least same gaming performances with NV but Cheaper than gtx9xx family. End of the day, we customer who will benefit from this all...

A. Forced? not really.
B. Its not like they were not planning on making new cards, but unlike Nvidia just going with what currently is available unlike what they originally planned, AMD is sticking to the newest tech and are waiting for 20nm to be feasible.

 

[Bloodstar27]

AMD too busy supplying chipset for ps4 and xboxone this year, i think that's the main reason they haven't release new generation GPU

 

[btarunr]

You say that like Intel doesn't have resources to do R&D.

It's not about R&D muscle, it's about patents. Everything that you need to build a modern GPU has been patented by AMD (well ATI) and NVIDIA, and the two companies have cross-licensed a ton of those patents to each other, in what is a zero-sum. Neither AMD nor NVIDIA will commit the suicidal move of licensing important bits of their IP to a company as monied as Intel. This IP clusterfuck prevents a third serious GPU maker from ever taking shape. Last decade S3 Graphics cross-licensed its old patents, and licensed some stuff from NVIDIA and ATI to come up with a modern discrete GPU. It couldn't keep up with the development cycles of its competitors, and sold out within no time.

Intel's iGPUs are very crude. The SIMD components are essentially stripped down x86 cores (a miniaturized Larrabee). These are not very space-efficient (≠ energy-efficient), and Intel can't build GPUs that compete with GM204 or Hawaii in these 3~5 years, not even having a fab-process advantage over TSMC.

AMD too busy supplying chipset for ps4 and xboxone this year, i think that's the main reason they haven't release new generation GPU

Yeah, they're busy making reeeally sure there's no crippling bug or design flaw with those chips, which could warrant a recall.

 

[anubis44]

AMD is going further and further down.... Feel so sorry for those guys. Honestly.

Utter nonsense. Normally, AMD is first to release a new generation of GPUs. This has been the norm since the Radeon 4000 series forced nVidia to skip an entire generation (300-series) back in 2008.

With the GTX970 and 980, nVidia has simply decided to strip practically all the rest of the double precision floating point circuitry out of the chip (which is like a car manufacturer pulling the back seats out of their new model and selling it as a 'feature' that the car is now lighter and faster) and release a new generation on the old 28nm process rather than waiting in line behind AMD at Taiwan Semiconductor for 20nm, because nVidia is always second in line after AMD, being as how ATI has a longer history with TSM. It's a clever move on nVidia's part, and one which nVidia supporters have been lapping up, but AMD's nextgen 390-series GPUs are on schedule for early 2015, and will almost certainly raise the bar past the GTX980, just like the 7970 did to the GTX580, and the 5870 did to the GTX480.

Before you have a crying party for poor AMD, remember that AMD has revenue streams beyond graphics cards, too, and it's only a matter of a year or two before Intel and AMD both crush nVidia's main add-in graphics business with APUs and poor nVidia with no x86 license. AMD's next gen CPU, K12, will also be out near the end of 2015. When AMD's APUs have stacked GDDR5 memory on die, with Radeon 300-series graphics and K12 cores, most people will not even have to bother with discrete graphics cards. Only the most fanatical nVidiots will continue to spill huge wads of cash on 2 and 3 ultra-uber cards, and the game makers won't even be thinking about them.

Don't feel bad for AMD, worry about nVidia, and what they're going to do when add-in graphics cards go the way of add-in sound cards and add-in ethernet cards. They'd better hope AMD doesn't start winning even more of their professional graphics card market at the same time.

 

[anubis44]

With that said I have faith that AMD will bring something to the fight before its over. Will they beat Intel...no and never will again IMO. Will they give nVidia a hard time....HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!

Before you write off AMD ever producing another Intel-beating core, read this: http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...me-changer-but-next-gen-zen-x86-core-will-be/

Jim Keller is building this nextgen AMD CPU, and remember, he's the engineer who designed the AMD K8, otherwise known as the AMD Athlon 64, the last AMD CPU that clearly beat Intel's best at the time. If anybody can do it, he can.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Before you write off AMD ever producing another Intel-beating core, read this: http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...me-changer-but-next-gen-zen-x86-core-will-be/

Jim Keller is building this nextgen AMD CPU, and remember, he's the engineer who designed the AMD K8, otherwise known as the AMD Athlon 64, the last AMD CPU that clearly beat Intel's best at the time. If anybody can do it, he can.

There's an edit button for a reason. Multi-posting is discouraged.


To the point at hand, I don't care. AMD releasing first, getting a minor lead, and then losing the lead to Nvidea almost immediately isn't a good thing. Being the first to market doesn't mean you've got the best product, just that you pushed it out faster.


To the same ends, Zen is years away. I'll believe it can compete with Intel the second that it materializes. I was promised that Bulldozer would compete with Intel years ago, so consider me jaded when it comes to open promises. The second AMD can compete is the second they deserve respect. Right now Nvidea is eating their lunch when it comes to gaming, Intel is eating their lunch when it comes to CPUs, and ARM is eating their lunch when it comes mobile devices. If the APU didn't find a home in the tablet market, and if the consoles didn't rely on the APU as a cheap pre-designed processor, AMD would be in really hot water.

The assertion that Nvidea is competing by cutting out features is interesting, but a fallacy. If a GPU, primarily used for gaming, no longer has calculation ability who cares? The people who use a GPU for computation still have the previous generation of card, which compete well with AMD's most recent offering. Gamers will never know the difference, but the much lighter cost will allow them to buy into the next generation. While I'm not in favor of an upgrade which removes features, this seems like a win-win for the consumers. Lower prices, and performance improvements, mean good things for consumers.


I'm sure your response is going to be something about my biases. Good luck there. I've built AMD systems, Intel systems, and used both flavors of GPU. AMD has always delivered a slightly worse product, at a much better price. That's definitely still true in the CPU market, but the GPU market is another story. Sales figures show this conclusion is extremely valid, and arguing to the opposite point is a fool's errand. Whether you like Nvidea/Intel or not, they're offering a better product right now. AMD cannot compete well with this, and their sales demonstrate that fact. It doesn't matter how AMD will be competing in 5 years, if they can't survive the next 4 due to massively diminished sales.

 

[Eukashi]

i am optimistic about RADEON's future.
new HBM technology would be very effective in GPU.

http://www.sisoftware.eu/rank2011d/...e0d1e8d8ebd9e9cfbd80b096f396ab9bbdcef3c3&l=en
http://www.sisoftware.eu/rank2011d/...eb83be8badd5e8d9ff9affc2f0c7f4ccea99a494&l=en

http://www.bitsandchips.it/9-hardware/4994-dall-isscc-nuove-informazioni-su-carrizo-hbm-in-arrivo
http://www.bitsandchips.it/9-hardware/4994-dall-isscc-nuove-informazioni-su-carrizo-hbm-in-arrivo
Carrizo APU as well.

 

[HumanSmoke]

With the GTX970 and 980, nVidia has simply decided to strip practically all the rest of the double precision floating point circuitry out of the chip (which is like a car manufacturer pulling the back seats out of their new model and selling it as a 'feature' that the car is now lighter and faster

Bad analogy. Double precision isn't used in gaming workloads. A better analogy would be for a car manufacturer to strip out the ability to fit a trailer hitch to its sports car range.

waiting in line behind AMD at Taiwan Semiconductor for 20nm...

Bookmarked for humour and future reference!
Sound's like you'll be an unhappy camper when the 390X turns up on TSMC's 28nmHP node then

It's a clever move on nVidia's part, and one which nVidia supporters have been lapping up, but AMD's nextgen 390-series GPUs are on schedule for early 2015, and will almost certainly raise the bar past the GTX980, just like the 7970 did to the GTX580, and the 5870 did to the GTX480.

AMD's Fiji isn't GM204's direct competitor. Fiji competes with GM200, Bermuda competes with GM204....although that seems some time away judging by the rumours of AMD jacking up the frequencies to extend the life of Hawaii.

Before you have a crying party for poor AMD, remember that AMD has revenue streams beyond graphics cards, too, and it's only a matter of a year or two before Intel and AMD both crush nVidia's main add-in graphics business with APUs

In which case AMD would also crush its own discrete graphics business no? The same discrete graphics market that is keeping AMD afloat.
You really expect iGPs to consume the discrete GPU market? You obviously haven't been paying attention. Both vendors are pushing 4K (and above) gaming and higher graphical image quality settings. How many APU's are capable of playing games at 4K? how about path/ray tracing ? There's a reason that games outpace the ability of a single GPU to run them at max IQ/max resolution/max AA, and those reasons are Gaming Evolved and TWIMTBP. Hardware vendors aren't in the business of destroying their own markets.

AMD's next gen CPU, K12, will also be out near the end of 2015.

Yes, as if AMD have a record of sticking to CPU/APU schedules

waiting in line behind AMD at Taiwan Semiconductor for 20nm, because nVidia is always second in line after AMD, being as how ATI has a longer history with TSM.

Incorrect. Both ATI and Nvidia used TSMC's 250nm node in 1997-98, both have been continual customers of TSMC since (with small diversions to IBM, UMC, UICC, and Chartered). The reason Nvidia jumps onto a process node after ATI/AMD is because of getting burned in the past (TSMC's 130nm Hi-K process), and because once AMD subsumed ATI it had the ability to troubleshoot foundry process issues better thanks to AMD running its own fabs (at the time of course). I might also point out that Nvidia seems quick off the mark with 16nmFF+, so I wouldn't base a future case scenario solely from past history. As you yourself said, AMD of late have had a process lead (R700, Evergreen etc), but that lead has been eroding with every successive series.