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Bitmain Releases Antminer E9 Ethereum ASIC With Performance of 32 RTX 3080 Cards

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Bitmain you cannot make money anymore. Bitmain used to make miners for the single users back in the day. But now they only appeal to the huge investor crowd. If you notice they do not make any home miners anymore. Everything is 240 V now and massive power requirements. It's all about Power to Profit ratios. I still run 3 Antminer L3+'s but only at very low 400 watts of power each. Only doing about 250 MH's but still makes about 200 to 300 dollars a month. But of course Bitmain never made anything better. No Antminer L5 or L7 nope dropped the home user crowd all together.
 
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mining is never about making money. It's all to pay the electricity bills, buy new hardware and whatnot. The actual "profit" you get is not even enough to buy an RTX3070 at scalped prices.
It's all about electricity cost where you live. Where i live electricity is around 8 cents per Kw/h, mining is really profitable where i live.
 
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It all depends on how expensive it is, I can't imagine that one of these will cost less than 15-20K so it wont make any difference. These miners will have to be overwhelmingly more cost effective to make a dent in this market.

Also, I thought ETH was meant to be ASIC resilient ?

closer to 50K i would think and there will be one hell of a waiting list for them..

trog
 
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In most democracies, party programmes are decided by members of the party through democratic processes within the party, and party membership is open to anyone wanting it. Pretty much anyone can also vote in general elections. Of course you can't entirely know how the people you voted for will act in situations not present in the party programmes, nor what the outcome of various negotiations will be, but you should still be able to trust them to follow the lines of thought laid out in party programmes. If not, then you really shouldn't be voting for them in the first place. And if your concerns aren't covered in party programmes, it's on you to work towards that changing. So, sorry, but they are democratically controlled.

As for direct democracy, it isn't feasible in any community of significant size, both in terms of the sheer number of decisions necessary as well as the infeasibility of everyone being sufficiently informed to make an active choice in each case. Dialogue and trust between the public, politicians and experts in relevant fields is the only way to maintain a practically functional form of democracy.
I don't think it's unfeasible. We have this thing called "the Internet" and all the good stuff it brings to the table, one of which being the ability to vote remotely. Such ability already exists in several countries, albeit ones with high social capital and level of education. Just last year I created a "trusted profile" in my old country and got some property documents sent to me instead of being forced do travel thousands of kilometers just to get those papers. And we're talking about a country where you can see actual chickens feeding on the streets in some cities, the government is described as increasingly fundamentalist and oppressive and level of education is drastically falling each year. So the ability is already present. As for the average voter being an unwashed simpleton who can be barely trusted with not setting oneself on fire, I agree. It will require further development in many areas, but I don't believe it to be impossible.
Which brings me to the political interest in letting people participate in democracy and I can tell you immediately: there is none. You don't spend years getting to the position of power and money to let others do the same. Party programmes are changed immediately after election or just ignored, populism is rampant, and as soon as the party gets in a position of power it tries to attain control of national media and feed the unwashed masses with propaganda. It happens all the time in Europe, latest examples include Hungary and Poland where the propaganda rivals that of the North Korea.
So yes. Hard and will take a long time? Absolutely. Unfeasible? Maybe not so much in the long term.
 
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Nope, even wikipedia got you covered:

If you set socio-economic context as, say, prison, cigarettes can become money. Like it or not, it doesn't matter if there are "legitimate public institutions" backing it up or not. It matters if people accept it as payment.

Pretty sure cryptocurrency meets "verifiable record" part, "generally accepted" is debatable for now, though in certain contexts it's probably "yes".
I don't see a significant difference between that and what I said. Sure, you can semi-arbitrarily define contexts in which crypto acts as money. There are also liminal cases where it is accepted as payment in arenas typically dealing with ordinary money. Does that mean it's generally accepted? Not at all. Not even close. It's a tiny, tiny niche at best. Any reasonable understanding of "generally accepted" would need to mean something like 'accepted by a majority of people' or something similar. I doubt 50% of people in any country (perhaps except Monaco, Macau, and various other tax havens and the like) have the faintest idea what crypto even is, despite the mainstream media coverage it's gotten in recent years.

As for legitimate public institutions, what do they do? They create frameworks allowing for people to accept and use things as payment, and ensure those frameworks are well-functioning and maintained, as well as ensure standardization within (typically) a country. Without the US treasury and all the related institutions, the USD would be utterly worthless if it existed at all, and it certainly wouldn't be the common system of payment across the US + an accepted form of payment in many other countries. So while public institutions aren't necessary for something to be money, they are pretty much necessary for something to practically work as money at any sort of scale. As I said previously in this thread, crypto is fundamentally reliant on being exchangeable for common currencies for its value after all, so even that would utterly collapse without that institutional support.
I don't think it's unfeasible. We have this thing called "the Internet" and all the good stuff it brings to the table, one of which being the ability to vote remotely. Such ability already exists in several countries, albeit ones with high social capital and level of education. Just last year I created a "trusted profile" in my old country and got some property documents sent to me instead of being forced do travel thousands of kilometers just to get those papers. And we're talking about a country where you can see actual chickens feeding on the streets in some cities, the government is described as increasingly fundamentalist and oppressive and level of education is drastically falling each year. So the ability is already present. As for the average voter being an unwashed simpleton who can be barely trusted with not setting oneself on fire, I agree. It will require further development in many areas, but I don't believe it to be impossible.
Which brings me to the political interest in letting people participate in democracy and I can tell you immediately: there is none. You don't spend years getting to the position of power and money to let others do the same. Party programmes are changed immediately after election or just ignored, populism is rampant, and as soon as the party gets in a position of power it tries to attain control of national media and feed the unwashed masses with propaganda. It happens all the time in Europe, latest examples include Hungary and Poland where the propaganda rivals that of the North Korea.
So yes. Hard and will take a long time? Absolutely. Unfeasible? Maybe not so much in the long term.
I think you're confusing access with ability and time cost here. Could one make a system of direct democracy using the internet? Sure. Absolutely. Would it work? No. Most people simply don't have anything even resembling the time to vote on dozens of different issues every week. There's a reason elected officials have government as a full-time job and that the higher level ones have large staffs - the workload involved is immense. It would be such an overwhelming amount of work and responsibility that most people would just not do it. Ever. So it's not about people being unwashed simpletons, but about people generally wanting and needing to do other things beyond voting all day - like working for a living, having a family life, etc.

As for the developments you describe (party programmes changing after elections, rampant populism, etc.): these are symptoms of broken democracies, which means one of two things: either it was never built up properly to begin with (as is sadly the case in many previous Soviet republics, among others) or it has been systematically and intentionally deconstructed (like in the US over the past 4-5 decades, though Western Europe isn't that far behind). And it's an easily started vicious cycle: if you break central functions of government, people stop trusting/never start trusting in the system of government, making them easy targets for populism, authoritarianism and other anti-democratic movements. You can't ultimately blame democracy for faults caused by people intentionally breaking it - that's just unreasonable. It's entirely possible to build well-functioning democratic societies with a high level of trust in public institutions, low levels of corruption, and high levels of accountability, but it takes a long time (decades at the very least), a lot of work, and a relative absence of actors hell-bent on breaking the system for their own benefit - and those are circumstances that have been exceedingly rare across the globe.
 
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I don't think it's unfeasible. We have this thing called "the Internet" and all the good stuff it brings to the table, one of which being the ability to vote remotely. Such ability already exists in several countries, albeit ones with high social capital and level of education. Just last year I created a "trusted profile" in my old country and got some property documents sent to me instead of being forced do travel thousands of kilometers just to get those papers. And we're talking about a country where you can see actual chickens feeding on the streets in some cities, the government is described as increasingly fundamentalist and oppressive and level of education is drastically falling each year. So the ability is already present. As for the average voter being an unwashed simpleton who can be barely trusted with not setting oneself on fire, I agree. It will require further development in many areas, but I don't believe it to be impossible.
Which brings me to the political interest in letting people participate in democracy and I can tell you immediately: there is none. You don't spend years getting to the position of power and money to let others do the same. Party programmes are changed immediately after election or just ignored, populism is rampant, and as soon as the party gets in a position of power it tries to attain control of national media and feed the unwashed masses with propaganda. It happens all the time in Europe, latest examples include Hungary and Poland where the propaganda rivals that of the North Korea.
So yes. Hard and will take a long time? Absolutely. Unfeasible? Maybe not so much in the long term.
The Athenians voted to go to war with Persia in a couple of hours and marched out that same day to face the Persians at Marathon. How's that for quick? And they didn't even have an internet or phone system or telegraph system. What I don't understand about a pluralistic democracy is who proposes legislation? Is it any member of the voting public (not everyone could vote in Athens).
 
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It all depends on how expensive it is, I can't imagine that one of these will cost less than 15-20K so it wont make any difference. These miners will have to be overwhelmingly more cost effective to make a dent in this market.

Also, I thought ETH was meant to be ASIC resilient ?
the algo is asic resistant, not asic proof hehe, asic resistant means they can create an asic for it but it will be expensive since eth needs a lot more memory bandwidth to do that, nowadays most newer algos are asic resistant, reason you can still mine eth with gpus is proof ethash is a good asic resistant, bitcoin gpu mining died in 2013, eth gpu mining soon to die as asics like this will flood the eth network in 6 months or so, anybody paying 4x or more the msrp of gpus will never get their money back, where I live 3080's were last sold for 3000 usd each , as soon as asics like this hit the network, 3080 will be sold for less than msrp, even the old rx 570 4gb is overpriced, they are asking for 750 usd for it, before this bullcrap started, it was 80 usd, it's nonsense. I really hope people lose a lot of money when this crashes, they need to learn a lesson here.
 
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The only people guaranteed to profit are those selling the ASICs.
 
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"unlikely to affect global GPU shortages."

booo uurns
 
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“Margin Call,” 2011 – a depiction of the final days of a brokerage house caught up the bubble of sub-prime housing bonds.

Jeremy Irons character’s rant is below:

“Its just money; its made up. Pieces of paper with pictures on it so we don't have to kill each other just to get something to eat. It's not wrong. And it's certainly no different today than its ever been. 1637, 1797, 1819, 37, 57, 84, 1901, 07, 29, 1937, 1974, 1987-Jesus, didn't that [sic] me up good-92, 97, 2000 and whatever we want to call this. It's all just the same thing over and over; we can't help ourselves. And you and I can't control it, or stop it, or even slow it. Or even ever-so-slightly alter it.”

Source – Internet Movie Database (IMDb)

Just forget the paper bit? Groundhog Day?

1619485158763.png
 
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Whether you like it or not, I feel this Antminer E9 ASIC is going to sell well until ETH move over to POS. The reasons being that,
1. GPU scarcity, and,
2. GPU cost

The latter is hitting miners really hard which fortunately is being cushioned by increase in ETH prices. If the prices are to continue dropping, it will be a very costly investment for miners, which they may struggle to sell at around the price they purchase.
 
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Whether you like it or not, I feel this Antminer E9 ASIC is going to sell well until ETH move over to POS. The reasons being that,
1. GPU scarcity, and,
2. GPU cost

The latter is hitting miners really hard which fortunately is being cushioned by increase in ETH prices. If the prices are to continue dropping, it will be a very costly investment for miners, which they may struggle to sell at around the price they purchase.

crypto prices just went up around %12 on the day.. prices will not continue to drop they will do the opposite.. these corrections are part of the crypto scene and probably engineered by big players to flush out the weaker players and over greedy over leveraged day traders.. bitcoin is moving into the hands of the big players.. they have to force these sell offs to get their hands on more of it..

these mining machines being talked about will cost at least $40,000 and be near unobtainable.. they will not affect the gpu situation in the slightest..

trog
 
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I have a feeling miners will be buying these as well as GPUs if their prices do fall.
Kill this economy it's obnoxious.
 
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