Blizzard Releases Warcraft III: Reforged System Requirements

[Cheeseball]

A lot of people seems to hate this release:

General Discussion

Discuss anything related to Warcraft III.

us.forums.blizzard.com

Same game with updated graphics.

Except of...

Spoiler: New Arthas vs. Illidan cutscene

Yeah looks like they botched the release. SC: Remastered wasn't this bad. SC: Cartooned ran perfectly from day one (albeit it was just a reskin).

 

[SamuelL]

For my part it's a 4.4 ghz cpu with a little overclock. It's desent yes, but not perfect. 2019 I ran in to a few games that really gave this old cpu a hard time even oc to 4.4 ghz on all cores.

I tested the beta of reforged on my trusty old i7 990x with a similar 4.4ghz, runs great maxed at 1440p. 4K had some weird lag hiccups on custom games but was otherwise playable.

A lot of people seems to hate this release:

General Discussion

Discuss anything related to Warcraft III.

us.forums.blizzard.com

Same game with updated graphics.

Except of...

Spoiler: New Arthas vs. Illidan cutscene

IMO, this is getting a day one patch. Played earlier this evening and they were having load issues where people couldn’t authenticate/sign-in. That seems to be fixed now but there is still a bug preventing the campaign from working correctly. In either case I think there are A LOT of cranky folks with buyers remorse who had the wrong expectations - this is WC3 with new graphics. Some vocal people on the forums were apparently expecting an alll new game... Bottom line If you liked WC3, you’ll love this game - if you were hoping for something new, sorry, this is still WC3.

 

[lexluthermiester]

A lot of people seems to hate this release:

General Discussion

Discuss anything related to Warcraft III.

us.forums.blizzard.com

A lot of people are whiny spoiled brats. The game isn't even out yet..

 

[Countryside]

Ryzen 1700x or better that's a good joke for a game that couldn't handle more than 4 cores

 

[Vayra86]

I'm more worried about the €30 requirement. For a game that was way worse than the first two. Still enjoyable, but Blizzard was able to remake SC and make it available for free...

Also:

you can shove it where the sun don't shine Blizzard.

Yeah I'm one happy camper playing a *portable* vanilla/xpac version of WC3. It has all the nice things, including editor and what more do we really need. Bonus points for nostalgia too and it runs on a toaster, which is another match made in heaven for this type of game. Great for on the road.

This is one of those games that is perfect for LAN, always online has no place.

A lot of people are whiny spoiled brats. The game isn't even out yet..

I think its called feedback and public backlash for shitting over your fanbase. Multiple times. Facts remain. WC3 has tons of free content and even total conversions that offer way more than what Blizzard is doing here, at a pretty steep price. And... weren't you the anti DRM guy? WC3 is the perfect cocktail in that sense, and its remaster certainly is not.

Also, people and especially gamers seem to be developing a very good bullshit sensor the past few years. I can only applaud that.

Also this one sums it up well.

Its just a very, very lazy release. Not touching with ten foot pole.

 

[bug]

I know it's your opinion and all, but I'd like to ask how was WC3 worse than the first two?

I can't put my finger on it, but the added hero mechanics made me not care about troops like at all. There was no rush of water elementals suddenly uncloaking in your base or trying to evade an unkillable demon until its invulnerability wore off. The undead felt like they didn't really belong to the lore. And when I tried multiplayer, it all felt like "get those orcish flyer - win".

Also no "Do you like fire?", "I'm full of it!"

 

[lexluthermiester]

I think its called feedback and public backlash for shitting over your fanbase.

Yes but that's bias, not objectivity. Most of the complaints I've read are boo-hooing over one perceived slight or another, many of them contradicting themselves as they go. I don't take whiners seriously. On the other hand, there are some who offer constructive criticism with objective viewpoints that are meant to give helpful input to the devs. But you have to swim through a sea of BS to find those comments worth reading.

And... weren't you the anti DRM guy? WC3 is the perfect cocktail in that sense, and its remaster certainly is not.

True, but I'm not representative of everyone's opinion. I'm leaning toward judging the game on it's own merits as presented. For example, Overwatch. Excellent game, crap DRM aside!

Also, people and especially gamers seem to be developing a very good bullshit sensor the past few years. I can only applaud that.

Good point. There's still a big bunch a nit-wits making problems as always..

 

[Mouth of Sauron]

What's interesting is that they make a difference between number of cores required for minimum and optimum.

To specify, both the game and (especially painful in some regards) WorldEdit.exe made usage of exactly ONE core/thread, which was natural in when the game was made, but is everything but natural now - some editor tasks are so painfully slow in current patch (not Reforged, I would appreciate any info on this) that it represents a major problem.

Some Engine/WorldEdit changes are surely made, the list of new options confirms it clearly - I just hope that "the original code is lost" and such "occurrences" did not happen, and that we get the game that actually uses at least some advantages of the 20 generations of the new hardware which were released since the launch...

 

[Frick]

WC3 was a masterpiece and created several new genres like MMORPG,

Is this a typo or something? Please say yes, the alternative is sadface.

Also, required internet connection just means purchase combined with a pirate patch over one eye.

 

[Regeneration]

Is this a typo or something? Please say yes, the alternative is sadface.

Also, required internet connection just means purchase combined with a pirate patch over one eye.

Warcraft 3 features both RTS and RPG elements. It came with a powerful editor that ended up with hundreds of 3rd party mods/maps and a huge community. Even poor people with pirated copies had their own community of custom games. This is the foundation of today's MMORPGS and the birth of WoW.

I'm not sure about the "internet connection required", there is an offline button when the game starts.

 

[Vayra86]

Yes but that's bias, not objectivity. Most of the complaints I've read are boo-hooing over one perceived slight or another, many of them contradicting themselves as they go. I don't take whiners seriously. On the other hand, there are some who offer constructive criticism with objective viewpoints that are meant to give helpful input to the devs. But you have to swim through a sea of BS to find those comments worth reading.

True, but I'm not representative of everyone's opinion. I'm leaning toward judging the game on it's own merits as presented. For example, Overwatch. Excellent game, crap DRM aside!


Good point. There's still a big bunch a nit-wits making problems as always..

Interestingly, the sea of BS contains a whole lot of people that just have trouble putting their discomfort to words, but do feel the product or the promise was not lived up to. Its simple: you don't hear the happy players on comment sections and forums. The fact there are numerous unhappy people however is most certainly an indicator of the overall public reception.

There is a stark contrast in comment sections between games and in my experience, almost every time, the whiners have a very good point - the game is missing things, or other games have done the same trick in a better way. When you see negativity in several of the top 10 hot topics on a Blizzard forum, you can rest assured the overall reception is negative. When its just the odd thread of 'some whiner' the usual way of things is that a bunch of fans come into that topic and strike it down swiftly. When the consensus is different, you will find the same topic grow and fierce discussion erupt, people bunch up into 'camps' etc... we know it all too well.

But yes, judge the game on its own merits, I get what you're saying, no need to follow anyone else's opinion at all. But, other people's opinions are a great way to filter the good stuff out of the sea of BS And I really only need one or two sane people with a solid bit of feedback on their experience to distill what's what, and this one reeks of lazy and rushed to market. Unfortunately.

Warcraft 3 features both RTS and RPG elements. It came with a powerful editor that ended up with hundreds of 3rd party mods/maps and a huge community. Even poor people with pirated copies had their own community of custom games. This is the foundation of today's MMORPGS and the birth of WoW.

I'm not sure about the "internet connection required", there is an offline button when the game starts.

Correct. Warcraft 3 spawned the MOBA and laid foundations for hero development/RPG progression in all sorts of games that didn't have it before. The concept is really now 'the norm'. Though I'm not sure how WoW is connected; the game borrows the lore of course but technically its an entirely different thing and it got its inspiration from countless other MMOs that already existed at the time; it just kinda became the Iphone of MMO's, as a lower barrier of entry, highly polished and high production quality version of it.

How the mighty have fallen... I really hope Diablo 3 is a return to what used to be.

 

[Frick]

Warcraft 3 features both RTS and RPG elements. It came with a powerful editor that ended up with hundreds of 3rd party mods/maps and a huge community. Even poor people with pirated copies had their own community of custom games. This is the foundation of today's MMORPGS and the birth of WoW.

I'm not sure about the "internet connection required", there is an offline button when the game starts.

You said it created the MMORPG genre, which is just not true.

Interestingly when the gameshifted from more RPG to more RTS several devs left and made Guild Wars.

 

[Regeneration]

The reason Blizzard went with WoW rather then another Warcraft sequel was the popularity of "custom games" in WC3 multiplayer.

Before WoW, nobody cared about MMORPGs.

 

[xBruce88x]

Hopefully they don't do it the way they did Starcraft... I have an older system with an athlon 64 x2 6000, 4gb ram, and an old ati x550 128mb. Should be able to run the game but because they've forced it to use the new engine even without the remastered part, I can't run it at all. Whereas before I could run it on a 486 cpu!

 

[Regeneration]

Hopefully they don't do it the way they did Starcraft... I have an older system with an athlon 64 x2 6000, 4gb ram, and an old ati x550 128mb. Should be able to run the game but because they've forced it to use the new engine even without the remastered part, I can't run it at all. Whereas before I could run it on a 486 cpu!

Too late... both classic and reforged require Blizzard app and there is a new user interface.





Forced FXAA and AF x16 from NVCP. In-game graphics look worse than what I remember... foul play?



There is an option for offline use.

 

[Tartaros]

I was a dunce and bought 5 days ago before release. This is the first time I'm going for a refund of a game, even if it takes me to the customers defender's office. I feel scammed.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Interestingly, the sea of BS contains a whole lot of people that just have trouble putting their discomfort to words, but do feel the product or the promise was not lived up to. Its simple: you don't hear the happy players on comment sections and forums. The fact there are numerous unhappy people however is most certainly an indicator of the overall public reception.

Oh, but now there's a new problem;

Warcraft 3 Reforged betrays its legacy fans

Warcraft fans blast Blizzard for drastically altering an RTS classic and removing core features.

www.tweaktown.com

And on this one I am absolutely with the fans!

Eff you Blizzard, big long middle finger to you!

 

[Vayra86]

Oh, but now there's a new problem;

Warcraft 3 Reforged betrays its legacy fans

Warcraft fans blast Blizzard for drastically altering an RTS classic and removing core features.

www.tweaktown.com

And on this one I am absolutely with the fans!

Eff you Blizzard, big long middle finger to you!

The spreadsheet heroes have discovered a few years ago that Blizzard had a product portfolio that was waaay too high quality and offered way too much replay value for its own good.

These remasters are a swift way to create a new reality where Blizzard follows the new 'AAA' norm of spoonfeeding everything... but only if you present new dollar every time. They need to go 'iterative' on a release such as this?! Why reinvent the wheel? It makes no economical sense. A graphics upgrade, sure. But all these niggles? There is an agenda.

I'm saying hard pass to this shit. Get portable versions of the good old games and we're done. Perhaps 'betrayal' is a strong word, but the game simply does not live up to expectations, and they were understandably high. Why the hell not... they've done it right already.

The reason Blizzard went with WoW rather then another Warcraft sequel was the popularity of "custom games" in WC3 multiplayer.

Before WoW, nobody cared about MMORPGs.

I beg to differ.... look at the history and you will see there was so much before WoW. Nobody cared? That's like saying nobody cared about shooters before CoD got mainstream.

I think if anything WoW made gaming more mainstream rather than the MMO. I mean really, its been a gateway drug for people from literally all walks of life. I've seen my share of it in person. The demographic of this game was infinitely more varied than what you find in any MMO today, or even online as a whole. Or maybe just very good at making that varied playerbase visible. Anyway... the game didn't hit headlines because it was an MMO, it was because everybody knew someone who played it.

You said it created the MMORPG genre, which is just not true.

Interestingly when the gameshifted from more RPG to more RTS several devs left and made Guild Wars.

Exactly, WoW was just created when MMO's were at their prime. It incorporated many ideas and fine tuned them... that was based on something. And that something was the dozens of other MMO's that were literally everywhere or already in development. 1998-2004 was the time and WoW was just the most mainstream chapter of it. Past that, the endless stream of lazy WoW clones made it all go even bigger.

This... is what made the MMORPG a solid genre and laid the real foundations. Comparing again to the Iphone; this was like that capacitive touch version dumbphone that could do it all, but was clunky at it. WoW was the Iphone that made it all flow naturally.

Ultima Online - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lexluthermiester]

Did you actually read that article?

"Custom Games are and shall remain the sole and exclusive property of Blizzard. Without limiting the foregoing, you hereby assign to Blizzard all of your rights, title, and interest in and to all Custom Games, including but not limited to any copyrights in the content of any Custom Games."

WTH? Not only is that just stupidly foul, but it's also cluelessly unenforceable. Blizzard can not legally make claims like that. Legal statue and case law don't allow for it.

Perhaps 'betrayal' is a strong word

No, no! In this situation, "Betrayal" is NOT too strong a word. Pathetically messed up is not too strong a phrase either. As I said;

Eff you Blizzard, big long middle finger to you!

On this dumbass move anyway!

 

[Vayra86]

Did you actually read that article?

Yeah that's that new reality right there. Its the same foul play as Bethesda trying to monetize modding.

All of it is the axe on the root of community driven content. Its not like DOTA is sprawling with fantastic content now that every Joe can vote on nice art and models. Not a single game was improved by paid fan made content.

Some things should just not be monetized, or only through donation.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Yeah that's that new reality right there. Its the same foul play as Bethesda trying to monetize modding.

Oh no, they're not to trying to monetize, they're attempting to take it over and claim ownership of what already exists but was made by people outside of Blizzard. It's effective copyright infringement and software piracy offered under the umbrella of a woefully flawed EULA clause. What they're doing is technically a violation of the law. This is the kind of thing that makes people think nothing of pirating software. Blizzard and many others have exercised means that tell the public "Hey we can do this and it's not cheating you/stealing from you, but don't you do this to us or we'll come after you!".

Screw you Blizzard and the Talbuk you're riding around on.

 

[Vayra86]

Oh no, they're not to trying to monetize, they're attempting to take it over and claim ownership of what already exists but was made by people outside of Blizzard. It's effective copyright infringement and software piracy offered under the umbrella of a woefully flawed EULA clause. What they're doing is technically a violation of the law. This is the kind of thing that makes people think nothing of pirating software. Blizzard and many others have exercised means that tell the public "Hey we can do this and it's not cheating you/stealing from you, but don't you do this to us or we'll come after you!".

Screw you Blizzard and the Talbuk you're riding around on.

Its indirect monetization in the sense that 'if the community makes it, we market with it'. Soon: a glorious infographic speaking of all the custom maps made by fans by Blizzard's beautiful editor. "look how vibrant this community is". Any company that needs to do this, has something to compensate for. I vaguely remember the big number Diablo 3 infographics at the time, too. Looking back we know why those existed; they had an RMAH and always online to choke us with, gotta keep the hype train rolling, even if there isn't one.

Another way they can monetize this is because they can now control what gets the spotlight in custom map releases. And the hidden agenda is this: 'We don't want another IceFrog that jumps ship to Valve'. That's how these dots really connect in the world of spreeadsheet heroes. Fuck the law, this is a business case and it is risk based, the law is just one of the risks. And it is based on the premise 'What the hell are you gonna do, kid? Sue us? Did you know we have this Banhammer here, too?'... The next guy creating the next sleeper custom map hit is caught up in a contract he never wanted.

Disgusting. But luckily we don't forget and the internet has a looooong memory too.

For those who are not ancient like us

IceFrog

IceFrog is the current lead designer of Defense of the Ancients and Dota 2.

liquipedia.net

DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne

Defense of the Ancients (DotA) is a custom scenario for Warcraft III, based on the "Aeon of Strife" map for StarCraft. The objective of the scenario is to destroy the opponents' "Ancient". The two teams' ancients are heavily guarded structures at opposing...

www.moddb.com

 

[lexluthermiester]

'What the hell are you gonna do, kid? Sue us?

I smell a class action in the works..

Did you know we have this Banhammer here, too?

That is retaliatory discrimination, which is also unlawful and actionable.

The next guy creating the next sleeper custom map hit is caught up in a contract he never wanted.

Clauses in contracts are only enforceable and actionable if they fall WITHIN the guidelines of legal code and case law. Blizzard has no lawful claim.

Disgusting.

We have never agreed more!

 

[Mouth of Sauron]

To say FIRSTLY that I completely agree with the whole Vayra86 & lexluthermiester 'sub-thread' /cocks head/ Weee... are often misunderstood...

I vaguely remember the big number Diablo 3 infographics at the time, too. Looking back we know why those existed; they had an RMAH and always online to choke us with, gotta keep the hype train rolling, even if there isn't one.

Hype-train was, even before the disastrous D3-launch, practically the ONLY part of company that functioned extremely well. Oh, look - WE HAVE THE LORE-MASTER! HYPE! (and let's ignore the fact that he's barely literal, that his master-lore is sooo sub-par compared to (high-school fanfic and) old "lore", expressed in cinematics in D1 and D2, created by rather undefined 'Blizzard Art Section'. "Lore" is in quotes, because it's a wonderfully free-form of just setting boundaries and letting player experience be individual... Of course, "The Loremaster" (who is in quotes because he's a parody of a writer /cocks head/).

What we got on the launch wasn't what we were promised, advertised even - and DeathMatch Arena, for example, so popular on Blizzcon was... scrapped and implemented as the most degrading PvP imaginable, few years after. Both RMAH and AH actually COULD'VE worked and COULD'VE been an addition:
1) if there was any competent person creating itemization (trade as such never destroyed D2, how come? errrr... not everything was RNG, fact is most of the stuff wasn't)
2) if there was SOME effort to stop botting - and there was none

Their "victorious" demographics chart is pure statistics manipulation, proclaiming a victorious year when *nothing* happened 8 out of 12 months - 'sorry, there is nothing we can do for vanilla players now or in the future, please wait for paid 40g Expansion where we might start fixing something', Whole RoS should've been free, comparatively how vanilla was "bad and worsened"... I did actual analysis of that chart, getting how miserable were results in the last months...

Another way they can monetize this is because they can now control what gets the spotlight in custom map releases. And the hidden agenda is this: 'We don't want another IceFrog that jumps ship to Valve'.

Hmmmm... Lovecraftian unreliable narrator remembers something as IceFrog was not original author... And how Blizzard actually bought the map from him... Legal confusion: could he have sold it at all, or Blizzard buying it? It happened "at some time", rather silently, IceFrog continued to develop DOTA and nothing happened on the surface... I'm not exactly sure on this, yes - there are the ways to check it on wayback machine or something similar, and I'm a bit lazy doing that - chiefly because DOTA or MOBA or everything spawning from an actual Blizzard original map (can't seem to place the name) - well, I don't like them. So, I'm not searching their history /cocks head/ - I'm pretty sure that it happened this way, but there could be a mistake...

HOWEVER! I *did* a work on a custom map, I too was not the original author, but it was 4 years of development and... Now I loaded it in current editor and clicked (maybe!) save, and according to new EULA, all our bases are belong to Blizzard, now??? This should not be hidden deep in the mines of EULA yes/no, but rather flashing at the top of the screen the whole time, asking if I am sure that I want to *donate* Blizzard with it... As said, I am not the original author and have no intention of trying to commercialize the mod - but... Now it belongs to Blizzard, whatever original author (or me; or other modders) thought of it - my main fear is them making "D3 out of my D2" (especially since I worked pro bono for 4 years, original author too) - degradation would be... shameful...

Disgusting. But luckily we don't forget and the internet has a looooong memory too.

Hope you're right. Really. But, some of the things that they kinda pioneered - for example 'this is yo account, and yo will be known by it and neverever can change the the fact that everyone and their brothers see who you are... It's de facto a standard nowadays. And I firmly deny it's 'for a greater good', to stop flaming and trolling and smurfing and "botting which we never actually try to stop, but in case". Also, "always online, only online"... I never bought SC2 (after signing several petitions against this policy) for this reason. What happened? Nothing, sadly...

[I need the name-change for roleplaying purposes, it's kinda obvious /cocks head/ that it's very dear to me, I'm defined as 'middle-aged' according to (sic!) age, and my avatar is... So, not the terrorism, as all of the gaming companies would like to present it]