Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

[WhiteLotus]

Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic
The title reminds me so much of the UK and its fuel and road tax " to gurb road congestion " its all bollocks at the end of the day .

Gam

yup, and there is always a loophole to exploit!

 

[Gam'ster]

yup, and there is always a loophole to exploit!

Ill drink to that

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Mines £30 a month for 8mb dsl with a 50gb per month fair use policy,if i go over 50gb,my connection turns into a 64k connection

mines a similar package cept i pay £19 for 8mb a month with the same 'fair usage' policy. twice ive had my net capped at 128k because i went over the 'limit'

some ISPs can be pretty crafty some thing 20Gb a month is good then some others think 50gb ish is good.

I know a guy whose with the exact same ISP as me, on the exact same package & he leaves his pc on downloading day & night & they havent said sh1t to him.

-------

I agree with the whole 'system upgrade' thing especially here in the UK some of the cables & sh1t we got in the ground date back to pre-war days not to mention our underground transport system.

its the same thing - they were given a ton of money to upgrade it & what did they do? the pocket'd the money & done nothing & NOW after a few tragic fatal accidents have happend regarding all the rail tracks & signals etc etc now they decide they want to do something about it.

but how do u shut down a whole country/city while you shut down the underground rail system for repairs????

there are some people who still have V.I.P seats high up that shouldnt be there the whole system is corrupt

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic
The title reminds me so much of the UK and its fuel and road tax " to gurb road congestion " its all bollocks at the end of the day .

Gam

there is a way out of that - buy a few acres of land - grow some wheat or whatever shit they grow that they use to make biodegradable diesel

I think they done the exact same thing on the TV program Top Gear.

or u can always pay a few hundred for a cooking oil engine mod to run your car on corn or vegetable oil

 

[WhiteLotus]

I think they are going to put the new wiring in the sewer systems. Although the london sewer system itself is in need of updating.

 

[HTC]

there is a way out of that - buy a few acres of land - grow some wheat or whatever shit they grow that they use to make biodegradable diesel

I think they done the exact same thing on the TV program Top Gear.

or u can always pay a few hundred for a cooking oil engine mod to run your car on corn or vegetable oil

Here in Portugal, a dude was using cooking oil (used only once for potatoes and such) and, during a "police STOP operation", they found out that he was using cooking oil instead of gas and they fined him for it.

It get's better, though (i would call it ridiculous): the police themselves didn't know what the fine value was but they still impounded the car. The car was impounded for quite a while (weeks), but i don't know the final outcome of this

The car owner protested, and protested ... but no good. It even was in the 20H00 TV news and all ...

 

[candle_86]

That is very true, but look where it has got them? They don't need to create a military, they can just cripple the world with their nano bots that they have made....

But no seriously, signing that treaty is the best thing that has ever happened, the most technologically advance country in the world. Period.

and they owe it to America, honestly. They are not allowed to leave there little country with military support for another 37 years unless America say's they can. They have the worlds strongest superpower making sure no one touches them. Japan's success is linked to America, if not for us they'd still be the Empire of the Rising Sun and still 20 years behind everyone else

 

[WhiteLotus]

and they owe it to America, honestly. They are not allowed to leave there little country with military support for another 37 years unless America say's they can. They have the worlds strongest superpower making sure no one touches them. Japan's success is linked to America, if not for us they'd still be the Empire of the Rising Sun and still 20 years behind everyone else

The world does not revolve around America Candle. Every good thing that happens is not because of you. Japan could have quiet easily become a baron wasteland after you nuked it twice but the people rallied too and rebuilt. The Japanese people is who you want to thank.

 

[Gam'ster]

there is a way out of that - buy a few acres of land - grow some wheat or whatever shit they grow that they use to make biodegradable diesel

I think they done the exact same thing on the TV program Top Gear.

or u can always pay a few hundred for a cooking oil engine mod to run your car on corn or vegetable oil

Top Gear clarckson is a legend. but yeah I would need to get a diesel and i dont have any land , And i thought using cooking oil was illegal ??

Gam

 

[candle_86]

The world does not revolve around America Candle. Every good thing that happens is not because of you. Japan could have quiet easily become a baron wasteland after you nuked it twice but the people rallied too and rebuilt. The Japanese people is who you want to thank.

they rebuit there country, your joking arn't you please tell me your joking?

The U.S. and MacArthur, appointed the country's military governor, were about to help the shell-shocked Japanese. MacArthur had been given emperorlike powers to rebuild and reshape Japan's ancient civilization. The U.S. occupation, from 1945 to 1952, worked so well that Japan quickly re-emerged as a world economic power.

The reformed Japanese government played a key role in the recovery, by identifying industries that could be developed domestically and investing heavily in them. The U.S. became a central market for sleek Japanese goods, such as automobiles and electronics.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_11_135/ai_n18615415


read it, we rebuilt japan, we wrote there constition, we installed there government, we opened there education and econmy and we made Japan excatly what is today, I understand US history isn't taught over there, but do some research first.

As for Nuking them, that was war and they deserved it, also there would have been more dead if America invaded, also don't forget that Winston Churchhill agreed with Presient Truman to drop that thing, they knew how many lives would be lost if we invaded, 5million troops from the allied forces, unknown Japanese Civilians as there military its self was almost completly gone, but they refused to surrender. After we nuked them we rebuilt them.

 

[WhiteLotus]

they rebuit there country, your joking arn't you please tell me your joking?







http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_11_135/ai_n18615415


read it, we rebuilt japan, we wrote there constition, we installed there government, we opened there education and econmy and we made Japan excatly what is today, I understand US history isn't taught over there, but do some research first.

your saying that the US built every house? every road? made every new piece of technology? wow that is impressive.

 

[candle_86]

your saying that the US built every house? every road? made every new piece of technology? wow that is impressive.

we got them started and yes the occupation force was responsible for rebuilding the cities

 

[p_o_s_pc]

I have a 250GB HDD that is asking to be filled...

 

[Polaris573]

I'm sorry for my off hand remark about Japan. Please get this thread back on topic, it's not for discussion of foreign policy and history.

 

[WhiteLotus]

we got them started and yes the occupation force was responsible for rebuilding the cities

I whole heartedly agree with you there, but the US haven't been there rebuilding for the past i don't know how many years. And do you know the reason why they pumped so much money into Japan and Europe after the war? So that they can have some economical competitors. anyway i dont want to turn this into political debate.

on tpoic:

Yes the ISP's are bad for charging, quite probably through their own greed which i believe is a very wrong thing to do but then every business exists to make a profit or else what would be the point.
If they are saying that these new costs are going to help rebuild the internet and improve it via faster speeds and increased security, and only 50% of that statement turns out to be true then at least it is a start in the right direction. I don't believe that they should charge for over usage when there seems to be no increased cost to the actual firm itself but lets all agree the whole system needs upgrading, and if some of that money is going to upgrade it then hurah for the rest of us.

also, i think that there should only be one firm responsible for doing this upgrading and what not, or else i fear a new blu-ray/HD war will ensue with each firm saying that they have the best internet support and provide the best speed when in reality there is a very small difference between them.

 

[Gam'ster]

I think the ISP's and movie studios are working together: Limit/kill bandwidth increase blu-ray disk sales mwhahaha.

Gam

 

[WhiteLotus]

If that is true then that is truly against some sort of anti competition law. And even so how many of these ISP's are now doing this charge per byte approach? There will always be one that doesn't follow the crowd and it will be that one that will then acquire all the customers. However then the whole contract thing may be brought into line here with a no get out clause for "x" period of time.

If this does kill downloading, which it may not if downloading overuse is less than the cost of a CD (assuming here that it will be many of the illegal downloaders that are responsible for the shear number of downloads) then they this may stimulate the economy a little if people once again buy CD's and such

Also another thought, how much is a game demo going to cost you if these charges are brought in, same goes for beta testers, will the game developers reimburse you for the extra cost as a thanks for helping with the game?

 

[pentastar111]

that would be AT&T for DSL traffic in this country, they own at last check around 95% of all phone lines, also AT&T isn't cutting traffic, i have there 3mb/s package and i get 2.5 constant all the time amazing what you get when your with the person that own's the phone lines. As for Cable those are owned by the cable company in your area, look for the biggest or oldest possibly the same one, and its there lines actully. As for my DSL im not terribly worried about any of this, we signed a contract with SBC before the buy out from AT&T that stated we have a 3mb service, with unlimited usage for as long as we stay with the company, AT&T honored our contract by law when they bought SBC so i feel quite safe, untill i get bored with DSL they can't cap me, the contract forbids it nor can they charge me for using so much. Any SBC DSL user that got switched to AT&T has this contract. So in short though, DSL is AT&T phonelines most likly.

As for the situation i agree charging users for going over a certain amount will back fire at least in America, I know if they find someway to get around this contract and then say i can have 100gb per month ill be kinda pissed. Ever seen a wow update, or watched the traffic over it, or say steam ect. Online gaming will be affected alot by this and it hurts the compaines associated with it. Blizzard can be affected by this directly actully. How many people might close there accounts because they simply can't afford the bandwith surcharge for it anymore, remember WoW was Blizzards big break, you have to think about more than the net providers think about other things as well. What compaines and bussiness are tied to the internet, what about Direct To Drive, Netflix ect that stream media to PC or for heavens sake's what about the porn industry i can say i easily download 20gb of porn a month, what about that. ITs gonna hurt alot of others, when people get laid off at compaines becuase of declining profit that are net based, they can't pay for net service, so to balance it the ISP raises rates once more, followed by more users leaving the ISP and more bussiness loosing more money, its a cycle is excatly what it is.

If they think i wont disconnect and read a paper/watch TV and go to blockbuster to get what i need and to read there mistaken. Ill start ordering PC Mag again to keep up to date and shop at fry's. This world can survive without the Net, but the ISP can not survive without the user. In Austrilia its your own fault your situation is like it is, what would those ISP's do if you simply disconnected for even a month, just everyone over there didnt use the net for a month and cancled there plans, what message would your ISP get, that its not right, thats what message they would get, if they didn't agree to change stay off for 2 months, 3 heck a year untill they change, its not that hard, man lived for internet for thousands of years, and there is no reason we can't do it agian. So you want to stop this, make it easy disconnect.

Fricking well said.

 

[pentastar111]

If that is true then that is truly against some sort of anti competition law. And even so how many of these ISP's are now doing this charge per byte approach? There will always be one that doesn't follow the crowd and it will be that one that will then acquire all the customers. However then the whole contract thing may be brought into line here with a no get out clause for "x" period of time.

If this does kill downloading, which it may not if downloading overuse is less than the cost of a CD (assuming here that it will be many of the illegal downloaders that are responsible for the shear number of downloads) then they this may stimulate the economy a little if people once again buy CD's and such

Also another thought, how much is a game demo going to cost you if these charges are brought in, same goes for beta testers, will the game developers reimburse you for the extra cost as a thanks for helping with the game?

That will suck for demo's...I don't do alot of torrents...I have a few times, very few. I can count the number on one hand...but 99.9% of the time I buy my games and my software...I'll play the demo's when available...I already pay a "premium" price for my internet service...If they start making this lttle "scheme" the norm, like candle 86 stated... I will just drop the "net" and go back to reading more (I already get plenty of PC related mags) watching the tube again and playing "single" player games...F^ck 'em right in their greedy necks...pricks..

 

[Deleted member 24505]

@ FreedomEclipse,If i download after midnight,my isp does'nt could it towards my fair use limit.The problem is,it forces people to download during the night,thereby choking up the system on a night.

My isp was the first place in the uk to get dsl,because the karoo(torch communications) network is so small (compared to the rest of the uk) and closed it was ideal for testing.Apparently we will also get the chance to try adsl2 first as well.

The problem is,in this area we can only get a connection from karoo and no one else,not bt or virgin etc.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Here in Portugal, a dude was using cooking oil (used only once for potatoes and such) and, during a "police STOP operation", they found out that he was using cooking oil instead of gas and they fined him for it.

It get's better, though (i would call it ridiculous): the police themselves didn't know what the fine value was but they still impounded the car. The car was impounded for quite a while (weeks), but i don't know the final outcome of this

The car owner protested, and protested ... but no good. It even was in the 20H00 TV news and all ...

that sucks lol there is nothing illegal about it.

the only people that would possibly declare it illegal is the government because oh were not paying petrol duty to run our car & their going to go hungry for a few weeks....

seriously - here in the UK where:

-> buying a car = expensive due to European Value Added Tax (VAT) system

-> road tax = expensive (& its gonna get more expensive soon i hear)

-> Insurance = hmmmm 50/50 can be high can be low but prices will probably go up once there are less drivers on the road to insure (they need to make money etc etc)

-> Petrol = expensive at over 1UK P.sterling per liter - its not the petrol that makes it expensive its the 65% (roughly) 'petrol duty/tax' that we have to pay the government which somehow goes to funding taxi rides from London to Scotland or ridiculously long all around the world flights just so u can pop in & say hello or goodbye to some people (Tony Blair - go figure)

our tax's are routed to & used for something totally unnecessary & unrelated to politics & yet they have the guts to come back to the people who pay for their glamorous life styles & their 5x 1mil houses, flats or studios & demand that we pay them more money???!


its not illegal to run a car on vegetable oil - it doesn't create any emissions other then leaving your car smelling like a fish & chip shop.

that man didn't deserve to be treated like that


errrrrrrrr rant over!!!!

::EDIT::

doing some research into the matter - using vegetable oil in engines was classed as legal in July 2007, however you have to keep the millage roughly to 24000 or 25000miles a year (or something like that) before u are taxed - or failing that your supposed to declare it to them & they will tax u anyway - but it is no way illegal since vegetable oil is classed as bio-fuel

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Because they have the United States 7th fleet between them and the rest of the world and a treaty barring them from creating a powerful military.

That was lifted.

The world does not revolve around America Candle. Every good thing that happens is not because of you. Japan could have quiet easily become a baron wasteland after you nuked it twice but the people rallied too and rebuilt. The Japanese people is who you want to thank.

If it wasn't for the US and Russia your whole country would be run by Nazi's. America protected the UK, despite the large casualties we suffered defending ourselves from your countries military a couple hundred years before in the revolutionary war.

Without the usage of Nukes, many more americans and japanese would have died because the japanese were willing to fight till the death of every last one of their people because they believed their Leader was chosen by God. Even more so than the Pope. But once we lied to them by saying we had a dozen more nukes to completely destroy there whole country the Emporer decided to call it all off and surrender. His army almost successfully staged a coup to overthrow him when he was recording the message to completely surrender with documentation. The Nukes saved more lives than they had taken.

 

[WarEagleAU]

Candle, does your DSL speeds go passed 6MB DL? I cant get cable out here, and the highest AT&T goes here is 6MB DL and 768Kbps UL. Id like to get 8, 10, 15 but Im not able to Also, Ive never got anywhere near 6mb DL or even 4 or 3 for that matter and Im not but 4 blocks from my CO. Its all infrastructure. I cant wait for this all to get updated. Ill be happy with 20MB down and be good to go. I download alot and pretty much everyday Im torrenting with either downloads or uploads. Ill be severely hampered if this takes affect :/

 

[candle_86]

Candle, does your DSL speeds go passed 6MB DL? I cant get cable out here, and the highest AT&T goes here is 6MB DL and 768Kbps UL. Id like to get 8, 10, 15 but Im not able to Also, Ive never got anywhere near 6mb DL or even 4 or 3 for that matter and Im not but 4 blocks from my CO. Its all infrastructure. I cant wait for this all to get updated. Ill be happy with 20MB down and be good to go. I download alot and pretty much everyday Im torrenting with either downloads or uploads. Ill be severely hampered if this takes affect :/

they offer 6mb yes but where happy with 3mb here, CSS and WoW dont lag and most servers cap bandwith anyway so im happy with my speed. The highest in Fort Worth is 6mb/s and i get a stead 2.5 all day long

 

[Haytch]

Ill like to open up with;
Dial-up speed should be deemed illegal! No government should support such a crappy speed.

I use to have ADSL 256/64 Unlimited for a while, and 65Gb a month was decent, but 25.6kb a second is disgusting in itself. Now i have 1.5 ADSL which gives me 150kb a second with a 25.6kb upload. <--< Still crappy. I pay $70au a month and am allowed to download a total of 60Gb a month, with 20gb of that in peak and 40gb ( midnight to midday ) for offpeak.

Im not allowed to get ADSL2+ in my area because we dont support it, and i cant get Cable in my area because we dont support it.

I would gratefully exchange my 60Gb download limit for a decent speed like bloody 100mb!

Knowing of Kensai Electronics over in Japan ( Japans second largest Electical company ) having a true 1Tb upload and download speed between their 2 buildings gives me hope for a brighter future.

Btw, 60Gb a month isnt enough, even 200Gb a month wouldnt be enough.

I think a fair deal would be.

No peak/offpeak

True 100mb download speeds
True 100mb upload speeds

1Tb a month download / upload limit

$100au a month


Lucky im not President.