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CHOO CHOOOOO!!!!1! Navi Hype Train be rollin'

FordGT90Concept

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he pumped up the expectations so high they went through the roof,reaps what he sowed.
Lisa Su did that. She was hyped about Navi and now she isn't. Something clearly happened on Navi that was unexpected.
 
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Yet you managed to take everything I said like a fact...

What's that even supposed to mean ? I was pointing how how the things you said do not work like that, of course they aren't facts but for the sake of discussion some of them have to be treated as such otherwise what's the point ? Speculation by itself is worthless.
 
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People don't really cry about power draw. They cry about perf/watt. This is true everywhere, and especially on mobile with its cooling/power restrictions. As we reach the end of a node, power draw becomes a crucial part of the equation, its exactly what AMD is struggling with for the last 5-7 years.

I'll tag you in the first post I read where they do dude :D

I know what you're saying. It's not been something amd have done well at since they made my GPU but still it's cost : perf that matters the most to the majority who don't just buy another NV card for mindshare reasons.
 
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I'll tag you in the first post I read where they do dude :D

I know what you're saying. It's not been something amd have done well at since they made my GPU but still it's cost : perf that matters the most to the majority who don't just buy another NV card for mindshare reasons.

Nah R300 days were glorious. So was 4870/5870 days. R9700pro held crown of absolute performance AND power efficiency comparing to the famous leaf blower FX 5800
 
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I'll tag you in the first post I read where they do dude :D

I know what you're saying. It's not been something amd have done well at since they made my GPU but still it's cost : perf that matters the most to the majority who don't just buy another NV card for mindshare reasons.
Yes, but those people are a minority in the grand scheme of things. And the majority is tilting towards nVidia.
Let me put it this way.
Imagine both AMD and nVidia release a card in the, most popular, mid-range segment, at the exact same time. The two cards have the exact same power draw, performance and price. Same temps and noise as well. They are literally indistinguishable in any way or form once in the case. One is green, the other is red.
Do you think the cards will sell 50:50 or will they favor nVidia, with lets say 70:30.
And that's the issue. In order for AMD to gain market share, they need (unfortunately for them) an amazing product. Last of which was HD 5870. And I would go as far as to say their last great card was 7970. They had a lot of solid products after that, Hawaii (with a proper cooler), Polaris, V56, but none were game changers.
 

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People don't really cry about power draw. They cry about perf/watt. This is true everywhere, and especially on mobile with its cooling/power restrictions. As we reach the end of a node, power draw becomes a crucial part of the equation, its exactly what AMD is struggling with for the last 5-7 years.

There are plenty that look at performance per dollar too.

Yes, but those people are a minority in the grand scheme of things. And the majority is tilting towards nVidia.
Let me put it this way.
Imagine both AMD and nVidia release a card in the, most popular, mid-range segment, at the exact same time. The two cards have the exact same power draw, performance and price. Same temps and noise as well. They are literally indistinguishable in any way or form once in the case. One is green, the other is red.
Do you think the cards will sell 50:50 or will they favor nVidia, with lets say 70:30.
And that's the issue. In order for AMD to gain market share, they need (unfortunately for them) an amazing product. Last of which was HD 5870. And I would go as far as to say their last great card was 7970. They had a lot of solid products after that, Hawaii (with a proper cooler), Polaris, V56, but none were game changers.

I posted a Video of AMD where its goals are at right now earlier, take time to hear it.
 
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How odd. Suddenly those who trashed AdoredTV as an AMD fanboy are the biggest advocates of his latest rumors and speculations...
 

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I still don't see Navi coming close to Vega VII/2080 performance. Because if it did, they are basically just giving a big f u to those people who paid for VII at $699... Navi will only compete for low end and mid-tier performance levels, it really is the only thing that makes sense on paper anyway.
 
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How odd. Suddenly those who trashed AdoredTV as an AMD fanboy are the biggest advocates of his latest rumors and speculations...

More interesting is that they want to come off as someone who doesn't want to have anything to do with his fanboy trash yet they are the frist ones to post his videos.

How odd indeed.
 
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adtv blew the expectations out of proportion,ppl called him out on that.
nothing odd about the fact they're speaking now too.
why would anyone who knew what adtv posted was far too much hyped up shut up now? he just admitted things turned out to be below his humongous expectations.ppl knew that as soon as it was revealed navi is gcn.
you either believed what he said back then or not.

when adtv says it's gonna disappoint we're in for another saga of amd fan base baiting ppl on tpu since they got nothing else going on.
 
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I posted a Video of AMD where its goals are at right now earlier, take time to hear it.
Just finished it. Pretty good video. And explains a lot of what's been happening and why.
This comment from the second Adored video ties in nicely with it.
PC gamers are the lowest on the list of priorities for AMD. The 7nm capacity and resources had better uses in the datacenter as Vega Instinct / EPYC. No need to waste them on gamers who only want AMD to compete in order for Nvidia to lower prices and get Nvidia anyway.
 
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Just finished it. Pretty good video. And explains a lot of what's been happening and why.
This comment from the second Adored video ties in nicely with it.
as if this wasn't common knowledge already.
did adtv just learn that rtg cares about pc gamers the least?
cause to me switching focus is the whole reason why they're still living and breathing now.
 
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@ShurikN

For sure dude, it's the whole crux of their issue. People think Nvidia are better, even when they ain't.

Maybe if they could get a plug from playstation and Xbox that might change, but it won't happen.
 

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I still don't see Navi coming close to Vega VII/2080 performance. Because if it did, they are basically just giving a big f u to those people who paid for VII at $699... Navi will only compete for low end and mid-tier performance levels, it really is the only thing that makes sense on paper anyway.
Remember why Radeon VII is $700: because NVIDIA cards it competes with are. AMD's intent with Navi was to shift the price point of the market down where Radeon VII's wasn't.
 
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I'm not worried about power draw tbh.modern cooling solutions are capable of keeping a 250w card cool and quiet.it's gonna drive up the cost though since no one should have to buy mid-range cards with high end coolers.
I'm worried that amd might let nvidia's 2060/2070 go without competition.

Remember why Radeon VII is $700: because NVIDIA cards it competes with are.
Might wanna rethink that.
RVII is closer to $500 rtx2070 yet priced like rtx2080.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafi...Rangliste-GPU-Grafikchip-Benchmark-1174201/2/
rvii.jpg



 
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Remember why Radeon VII is $700: because NVIDIA cards it competes with are.
Yes, but bear in mind that while R7 die size is smaller, it's built on a more expensive and not as mature process, and has HBM2. If AMD could have priced it at $600 and get even, they would.
 

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RVII is closer to $500 rtx2070 yet priced like rtx2080.
1) Amazon lists reference Radeon VII cards from $660 (back ordered) to $770, no where near $500.

2) Performance wise, it lands squarely between RTX 2070 (~$500) and RTX 2080 (~$700) while having twice as much memory as the RTX 2080 (16 GiB HBM2 vs 8 GiB GDDR6).

So yeah, how am I wrong? It's priced to fit inside of NVIDIA's pricing. That's why NVDIA didn't respond with price cuts. AMD did the same thing when they launched Vega and Fury.
 
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1) Amazon lists reference Radeon VII cards from $660 (back ordered) to $770, no where near $500.

2) Performance wise, it lands squarely between RTX 2070 (~$500) and RTX 2080 (~$700) while having twice as much memory as the RTX 2080 (16 GiB HBM2 vs 8 GiB GDDR6).

So yeah, how am I wrong? It's priced to fit inside of NVIDIA's pricing. That's why NVDIA didn't respond with price cuts. AMD did the same thing when they launched Vega and Fury.
come on,every card can be found discounted
you can have 2070 for $450
I'm talking msrp

my point is the same as the point ShurikN was making above.RVII is more like $500-600 card,but they can't sell it for that.
 

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If it had 8 GiB VRAM, it would be a $600 card but it has 16 GiB, hence closer to $700. Remember, Radeon VII is not far removed from Radeon Instinct.

TPU's performance summary has a lot of older games in it like Witcher 3, Hellblade, Dark Souls 3, Rainbow Six: Siege, and Grand Theft Auto V. These are games that the Radeon VII doesn't do well on simply because they're DX11 with the crappy VRAM limitations that generally invokes. Omit the dinosaurs (where you're getting 60+ fps 4K anyway) and the aggregate performance is closer to RTX 2080 than RTX 2070.
 
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If it had 8 GiB VRAM, it would be a $600 card but it has 16 GiB, hence closer to $700.
then they should make it 8gb cause 16gb drives up the price but the performance is that of a $500 rtx 2070 with no rt and worse efficiency.

this should be $550-600 max,same for rtx 2080,it should come down $100 too.
 
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There's little/no supply of 2 GiB HBM2 chips. They'd also have to retool/redesign HSF because of the difference in height. Not worth it. Sell 16 GiB to everyone.

This thread is about Navi, not Radeon VII.
 
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I'll tag you in the first post I read where they do dude :D

I know what you're saying. It's not been something amd have done well at since they made my GPU but still it's cost : perf that matters the most to the majority who don't just buy another NV card for mindshare reasons.

That is just it. You need the one to get the other, what @ShurikN says as well. We all know this, deep down inside, everyone can recognize 'Nvidia mindshare' is a thing but let's just face reality, that is not because of Huang's fancy jacket. Its because of the product.

I think its comparable to a Dacia car versus a Volkswagen. They both accelerate about the same, they carry just as many people and luggage, they do the same amount of KM/L. But, the VW has a somewhat better designed interior, looks a bit nicer on the outside, and comes in twenty different colors. The Dacia comes in three. And, to top things off, VW has a few concept cars going about, and a few fast and luxurious ones too. Nobody ever buys those, but hey, if you drive a simple VW, you do get some of that 'feeling' of being part of the brand that has those cars.

This also handily underlines that people care about more than price - you don't see Dacias everywhere. In fact, price is one of the least important factors in most segments except that volume midrange. And because of that, the midrange is also the least profitable segment. This is why AMD moves units but profits so very little - and therein lies the problem. The midrange is only a result of solid high-end products from last year, or you're constanly doing reboots a'la Polaris to fix the gap and you'll never amass a comfortable margin to fund new R&D.

I think this is a pretty decent car analogy, for once. :laugh: Heck it goes further, even; VW has that E-Golf, a pretty useless electrical version of the same car, sounds almost like Turing!
 
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Why would it be a failure?
AMD holds 20% of dGPU market. You can't call AMD GPUs failed if you praise their CPUs.

It's almost impossible for it to be worse than last Polaris cards. It'll be OK for gaming and as chips get bigger and TSMC node gets better, Navi will get to 4K @ 60fps. Maybe even with hardware RT similar to Nvidia's.

But that's one side of a coin. Another one is delivering on expectations.
Literally from the day Vega launch and turned out to be somehow disappointing, countless AMD fans started saying that it's just an interim step. That Navi will be the "Zen moment" for Radeon. Well.. here we are almost 2 years later. And even before Navi reviews came out, narration moved to next-gen Arcturus...
Hi again pal! Nice to meet you in another AMD thread although you don't like their products muchly.

1) Polaris made AMD to recover to 40% with the 480 if you look back after its launch
2) Arcturus isn't a new arch but a new product probably for server market
3) Navi's expectations for 2019 is Navi 10 competing with 2070 for the cut-down one (Vega64 successor in performance, RX580 in its launch price) and the cut-down version of it to go against 1660Ti and succeed Vega56 in performance for close to $200. Me thinks they will make it but not sure about efficiency being worthy of the 7nm process. Radeon 7 got ~15% higher clocks for 10% lower power consumption having double the memory chips on it.
4) Vega wasn't an interim step at all. It just was a multi-purposed chip that resulted being much better in compute workloads (CGN and HBM2 helped much) but failed to get as high for gaming. Vega 56 however was a good product since launch and is even better today, not mentioning the price hikes during the mining craze.
5) Intel is already3 years off its schedule with 10nm having spent huge piles of $ on that front while AMD is behind the schedule with Navi mainly due to the change in plans with GF abandoning their 7nm and altering parameters in design to make it compatible with the TSMC's process
 
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There's little/no supply of 2 GiB HBM2 chips. They'd also have to retool/redesign HSF because of the difference in height. Not worth it. Sell 16 GiB to everyone.

This thread is about Navi, not Radeon VII.
if nv put 16gb on 2070 cause there's a short supply of 1gb ddr6 chips it wouldn't make it worth $200 more.
 
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2) Performance wise, it lands squarely between RTX 2070 (~$500) and RTX 2080 (~$700) while having twice as much memory as the RTX 2080 (16 GiB HBM2 vs 8 GiB GDDR6).

So yeah, how am I wrong? It's priced to fit inside of NVIDIA's pricing. That's why NVDIA didn't respond with price cuts.
I'll tell you how.

1) It's not even close to squarely between the RTX 2070 and RTX 2080 performance wise. It's essentially equal to an RTX 2080. Trading blows with it all day long. Sometimes a little slower, sometimes a little faster, sometimes pretty much the same. Turn RTX on and it wins every time(speed wise). Those charts above are bullshit.

2) As such, it's priced to beat Nvidia value wise. Which it does.

3) Nvidia didn't respond with price cuts because they can't. Or won't. Either way. Doesn't matter. Radeon VII is a better value.
 
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