Cooler Master Shows Off Cooling X, a Unique Prebuilt with Whole-body Liquid Cooling

[robot zombie]

Forget the logical stuff. I'm stuck on solid copper rear side panels now.

I want a coolant-dispersing manifold integrated into the inner face of the rear side panel. Pill-shape contour for the tubing would be better for spread, though far worse for flow. Squish round tubing semi-flat to get the picture. That's snaking as tightly as physically possible up and down the whole inner face of the panel. It can be modular, with scattered ports for super short in/out runs to different components across the mobo. Tubing pops right out of the back at the closest possible point to each block right from the passive radiator reservoir manifold that is the whole back panel. Full copper blocks for your vrms and ram. You know the tubing is copper and the connectors are copper-plated. Better just go for the matte black silicon and let all of the copper sing the rest.

Basically what you then have is a full mobo block flipped inside out, passively cooling your liquid via the case itself with nothing extra covering up the components inside. And probably the best coolant temperatures ever.

The idea is that the coolant contacts as much surface on the panel as possible. That's also your res. Imagine how much coolant a side-panel's worth of tubing holds, right? How bout that? Might need some extra push to get the coolant to go through it. Lets stack impellers where a full size res *would* be in a normal loop to be safe. Case height hand-engraved copper monolith for the housing on the pump stack with an internal gap to make room for some sound insulation. And then maybe it goes to a wall of rads on the front side panel to handle whatever heat is left by the panel.

How's that for logical? It's like if a laptop cooler made a pact with The God Hand, became the next Apostle, and took the corporeal form of a whole-ass liquid-cooled hybrid passive/active radiator case made out of fine polished copper.

Lets go further and try to eliminate the rads completely, have an unobstructed view of that clean layout. Can we make the partition that the mobo mounts onto a 'coarse' copper mesh? And can we then mount two oversized fans stretching the entire span of that partition, blowing from front compartment to rear? And can we get them *just* far back enough from the rear side panel to send the air across the whole manifold and then directly out through a generous mesh strip running along the top, bottom, front and back of the rear compartment this forms? Can we maybe get fins on the tubing of the integrated manifold to assist transfer?

Somewhere in the case, there will need to be a sizeable passive air intake for the fans to draw from. It's kinda okay if it's bottlenecking the fans just a little bit - potentially more stable flow when the max resistance is at entry. Only problem would be potential resonance through the intake. Could always mesh the top out as well if we need more intake. It's intrinsically negative pressure, but we'll go the extra mile to seal it and filter that intake. All of the removable panels clamp into place to seat some nice fat seals into matching grooves. Maybe the whole bottom of the visible compartment is your intake mesh. Maybe have some blockage across the bottom couple inches of the meshed mobo partition to linearize the flow path a bit more. Or do solid trim around the edges of the mobo partition to separate all of the outlet-side compartment's exhaust. The mobo will have to stand further off to let the air through the mesh, and you'd want taller feet too. But nobody said this thing has to be practical. Honestly, if we're making it out of expensive copper sheeting, we can afford to make it as big as it needs to be. Lian Li style partitioning with the spacious back panel hiding integrated manifold, fans, and tubing with plenty of space for airflow. Like, maybe even wide enough in the back to stand an ATX psu on its side.

I mean... at this point, make the OUTSIDE of that back panel a full passive radiator with a full-span fin array. Because why not?


Can I maybe convince a youtuber to try this for educational purposes? Hrmmm...

It’s too small for 200mm fans friends. The side panels act as reservoirs.

This is why I like my idea better. Using those panels as reservoirs is a good plan. But in my plan 200mm fans aren't half big enough! Therefor, it is better.

 

[INSTG8R]

Uh…see my spec….

Kandalf LCS- VD4000BWS

 

[claes]

Forget the logical stuff. I'm stuck on solid copper rear side panels now.

I want a coolant-dispersing manifold integrated into the inner face of the rear side panel. Pill-shape contour for the tubing would be better for spread, though far worse for flow. Squish round tubing semi-flat to get the picture. That's snaking as tightly as physically possible up and down the whole inner face of the panel. It can be modular, with scattered ports for super short in/out runs to different components across the mobo. Tubing pops right out of the back at the closest possible point to each block right from the passive radiator reservoir manifold that is the whole back panel. Full copper blocks for your vrms and ram. You know the tubing is copper and the connectors are copper-plated. Better just go for the matte black silicon and let all of the copper sing the rest.

Basically what you then have is a full mobo block flipped inside out, passively cooling your liquid via the case itself with nothing extra covering up the components inside. And probably the best coolant temperatures ever.

The idea is that the coolant contacts as much surface on the panel as possible. That's also your res. Imagine how much coolant a side-panel's worth of tubing holds, right? How bout that? Might need some extra push to get the coolant to go through it. Lets stack impellers where a full size res *would* be in a normal loop to be safe. Case height hand-engraved copper monolith for the housing on the pump stack with an internal gap to make room for some sound insulation. And then maybe it goes to a wall of rads on the front side panel to handle whatever heat is left by the panel.

How's that for logical? It's like if a laptop cooler made a pact with The God Hand, became the next Apostle, and took the corporeal form of a whole-ass liquid-cooled hybrid passive/active radiator case made out of fine polished copper.

Lets go further and try to eliminate the rads completely, have an unobstructed view of that clean layout. Can we make the partition that the mobo mounts onto a 'coarse' copper mesh? And can we then mount two oversized fans stretching the entire span of that partition, blowing from front compartment to rear? And can we get them *just* far back enough from the rear side panel to send the air across the whole manifold and then directly out through a generous mesh strip running along the top, bottom, front and back of the rear compartment this forms? Can we maybe get fins on the tubing of the integrated manifold to assist transfer?

Somewhere in the case, there will need to be a sizeable passive air intake for the fans to draw from. It's kinda okay if it's bottlenecking the fans just a little bit - potentially more stable flow when the max resistance is at entry. Only problem would be potential resonance through the intake. Could always mesh the top out as well if we need more intake. It's intrinsically negative pressure, but we'll go the extra mile to seal it and filter that intake. All of the removable panels clamp into place to seat some nice fat seals into matching grooves. Maybe the whole bottom of the visible compartment is your intake mesh. Maybe have some blockage across the bottom couple inches of the meshed mobo partition to linearize the flow path a bit more. Or do solid trim around the edges of the mobo partition to separate all of the outlet-side compartment's exhaust. The mobo will have to stand further off to let the air through the mesh, and you'd want taller feet too. But nobody said this thing has to be practical. Honestly, if we're making it out of expensive copper sheeting, we can afford to make it as big as it needs to be. Lian Li style partitioning with the spacious back panel hiding integrated manifold, fans, and tubing with plenty of space for airflow. Like, maybe even wide enough in the back to stand an ATX psu on its side.

I mean... at this point, make the OUTSIDE of that back panel a full passive radiator with a full-span fin array. Because why not?


Can I maybe convince a youtuber to try this for educational purposes? Hrmmm...


This is why I like my idea better. Using those panels as reservoirs is a good plan. But in my plan 200mm fans aren't half big enough! Therefor, it is better.

The only problem is that copper is barely better than aluminum in terms of cooling. Side panels would not be enough cooling in and of themselves, so you’d need some radiators, and you’d certainly still need fans.

Uh…see my spec….

Kandalf LCS- VD4000BWS

Nice, but see previous post:

It reminds me of - https://www.regnercooling.com/product-page/cooling-system-2 - Regner Cooling System

 

[INSTG8R]

The only problem is that copper is barely better than aluminum in terms of cooling. Side panels would not be enough cooling in and of themselves, so you’d need some radiators, and you’d certainly still need fans.

Nice, but see previous post:

Just pointing out this isn’t exactly revolutionar. TT did in back in 2007 with a real full copper rad in the door that has been super effective since I built it around a C2D and has been cooling generations of Intell and AMD CPUs for me, I’ve just had to change the block a few times to keep up.

 

[bug]

I believe you got those reversed there

I believe I have, thanks for catching it.

 

[Dammeron]

Wait, theres a difference between an object absorbing heat and an object conducting it? Are we talking heat flux vs capacity? Im a bit confused by what the difference is supposed to be. Absorbtion, to me, is just a generic term for what physics calls conduction.

Think of it that way - You have 2 materials of equal mass (eg. 1kg), one of each requires 50W of heat to raise it's temperature by 1deg, the other 100W - that's difference in thermal capacity.

But both materials can also have different speed of absorbing that heat, which we call "thermal conductivity". if both materials had the same conductivity, the latter would need 2x the time to raise it's temp by 1deg.

(we have to assume identical outside conditions of course, so that the differences in temperature between the material and outside source are the same)

The way I understand it, aluminum has a much higher absolute heat capacity, meaning it takes more heat (pure joules/watts/whatever) to raise the temperature.

It's actually the other way - copper has ~1,85x better conductivity than alloy, and ~1,4x higher heat capacity.


The reason why copper is better is because it can absorb more heat before it gets to similar temperature as the object You're trying to cool and it can do the whole heat tranfer faster. The drawbacks: it's much more expensive, heavier and more difficult to process than alloy. It's also more prone to react while in contact with greasy fingers, that's why it's usually nickel plated - raises the cost even more.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Would of been cooler if it was like this all around

 

[ARF]

The most important question - how much TDP of CPUs and GPUs can this case cool down?

If an ordinary air / liquid cooler can do 180-200 W, how much can this whole case do?

 

[A Computer Guy]

I wonder if the case panels have a thermal insulator for the inside. It would seem silly to want to radiate residual heat back internally.

 

[ARF]

I wonder if the case panels have a thermal insulator for the inside. It would seem silly to want to radiate residual heat back internally.

Should be, otherwise what's the point of keeping the heat trapped inside...

 

[claes]

Have you all never seen a reservoir before?

 

[ARF]

Have you all never seen a reservoir before?

What ?

 

[Avro Arrow]

This is actually pretty "cool" (Ah thank-you!) but I've seen a not-so-good trend of people using liquid cooling on their CPUs for no real reason. It's like people are going out to buy AIOs when they have no actual interest in overclocking. I just use a Wraith Prism on my R7-5800X3D and it works just fine. It's not really a surprise to me because it's the same Wraith cooler that was used on the Phenom II X4 940 and FX-8350 CPUs with a ring of RGB light added to it. Those CPUs both had a TDP of 125W which means that the Wraith air cooler was designed for 125W CPUs. Since the R7-5800 only has a TDP of 105W, cooling it with the Wraith Prism is a "breeze" (yeah, that was bad).

Using liquid cooling is risky, expensive, unreliable and unnecessary compared to air cooling in 95-99% of situations. I actually tried using a Cooler Master Hyper air cooler for $20 and then a Zalman AIO that I got on sale for $40 just to try it out. I think that the difference between the Wraith and the Zalman AIO was about 5C with the Hyper somewhere between them. In all three situations, I couldn't get my FX-8350 to get anywhere near temps that would've caused it to throttle, let alone temps that would've been considered dangerous. It's like in WW2, it was harder to shoot down a B-17 or B-24 than a Lancaster because a bullet could punch through a Lanc's liquid cooling system while the Fortress and Liberator bombers had air-cooled radial engines. Sure, the performance and fuel economy of the liquid-cooled Merlin was greater than that of the Cyclone and Twin-Wasp radial engines used by the American bombers but I really think that the vulnerability of a liquid cooling system wasn't worth it. If I'm an Air Force Marshall, I care more about the durability of the bombers than their performance. The extra speed offered by a liquid-cooled engine does nothing to help a bomber avoid fighters but it the system makes it more vulnerable. In the same sense, the extra cooling and/or performance offered by an AIO isn't exactly jaw-dropping but coolant leaking all over your motherboard sure would be. The fact that it can easily cost 5x as much as a regular air cooler only makes it worse.

This is why I think that AMD's choice to include a box air cooler with their Zen4 non-X parts makes them the most attractive new CPUs out there. Let's be honest here, $30-$50 that you don't have to spend on a cooler is more or less the same as a $30-$50 price reduction.

 

[A Computer Guy]

This is actually pretty "cool" (Ah thank-you!) but I've seen a not-so-good trend of people using liquid cooling on their CPUs for no real reason. It's like people are going out to buy AIOs when they have no actual interest in overclocking.

Sometimes case fitment can be an issue especially with larger air coolers. In some cases an AIO might make more sense than an air cooler if your case can't fit the air cooler you would otherwise want to use.

I just use a Wraith Prism on my R7-5800X3D and it works just fine. It's not really a surprise to me because it's the same Wraith cooler that was used on the Phenom II X4 940 and FX-8350 CPUs with a ring of RGB light added to it. Those CPUs both had a TDP of 125W which means that the Wraith air cooler was designed for 125W CPUs. Since the R7-5800 only has a TDP of 105W, cooling it with the Wraith Prism is a "breeze" (yeah, that was bad).

I thought you cannot rely on TDP when picking any cooler but instead you must rely on CPU testing actual watts used in order to pick the most appropriate cooler. (when it's not included)

Using liquid cooling is risky, expensive, unreliable and unnecessary compared to air cooling in 95-99% of situations.

I wouldn't say unnecessary. If controlling fan noise is important to you liquid cooling is pretty good for that. There is nothing like having a really quiet PC where you have to take umteen web meetings during the day (that destroys your productivity) but at least everyone can hear you speak clearly without a bunch of background noise from whirring fans interfering with your microphone reception. Not everyone's situation but a use case where liquid cooling is very helpful especially when people have been forced to work from home.

In the same sense, the extra cooling and/or performance offered by an AIO isn't exactly jaw-dropping but coolant leaking all over your motherboard sure would be.

One of the reasons I went for a custom loop over an AIO is you can control the quality of the assembly and maintenance to minimize the possibility of leaks however most people likely wouldn't want to deal with the maintenance of a custom loop. More expensive than an AIO but if done right perhaps less expensive in the long run if a leak were to suddenly occur from an AIO failure where you couldn't control the quality of assembly. At least that is what I say to myself at night when I leave my PC running before I sleep.

 

[ARF]

Using liquid cooling is risky

Prove it.

people using liquid cooling on their CPUs for no real reason

The stupidly overclocked out of the box Ryzen 7900 series scream otherwise
The more liquid, the happier the chip!

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X Cooling Requirements & Thermal Throttling | TechPowerUp

 

[claes]

What ?

The side panels act as reservoirs. Reservoirs are common in custom water loops. They allow the loop more time to reach temperature saturation, giving the radiator breathing room to cool the water more efficiently.

Heat is heat. Will the side panels get warm? Sure. Will it change the chassis temperature? Nope. I mean, maybe they’re aluminum and will cool the water a little passively, but probably not by much.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Worst or best part "which ever one wants" is aluminum in a loop so all aluminum water blocks and radiator
Cpu blocks would be the biggest limitation that I can see.

Think ek has some and of course the maker of the case

 

[Avro Arrow]

Sometimes case fitment can be an issue especially with larger air coolers. In some cases an AIO might make more sense than an air cooler if your case can't fit the air cooler you would otherwise want to use.

I thought you cannot rely on TDP when picking any cooler but instead you must rely on CPU testing actual watts used in order to pick the most appropriate cooler. (when it's not included)

Yeah, but we're comparing apples to apples here as they're all AMD CPUs.

I wouldn't say unnecessary. If controlling fan noise is important to you liquid cooling is pretty good for that. There is nothing like having a really quiet PC where you have to take umteen web meetings during the day (that destroys your productivity) but at least everyone can hear you speak clearly without a bunch of background noise from whirring fans interfering with your microphone reception. Not everyone's situation but a use case where liquid cooling is very helpful especially when people have been forced to work from home.

Well that also depends because not all air coolers are noisy. I can attest to the fact that the Wraith Prism is quiet enough that I don't hear it at all.

One of the reasons I went for a custom loop over an AIO is you can control the quality of the assembly and maintenance to minimize the possibility of leaks however most people likely wouldn't want to deal with the maintenance of a custom loop. More expensive than an AIO but if done right perhaps less expensive in the long run if a leak were to suddenly occur from an AIO failure where you couldn't control the quality of assembly. At least that is what I say to myself at night when I leave my PC running before I sleep.

Oh I agree with you there. I didn't say that leakage was a big risk, I just said that it was a risk. It's like a small risk but with huge consequences if it happens. As for quality, most of the AIOs that I've seen are re-branded Asetek units. It's kind of like how PSUs have OEMs and RAM comes from Samsung, Hynix and Micron no matter the "brand". I think that the biggest positive about a custom loop is that you can include your GPU in the coolant's route and liquid cooling would make a bigger difference to your GPU than CPU. The biggest negative about it is that it can be horrifically expensive. I once looked at the cost of parts for a closed-loop liquid cooling setup and was aghast at what it would cost. I don't remember how many hundreds of dollars it was but I do remember that I never looked at it again.

When you think about it, if you want the absolute BEST quality in a custom-loop without paying through the nose, you should just go to Home Depot, get plumbing-grade copper and solder it together like a real plumber would. It'll look like hell but not only will it never leak, the copper pipe would also help cool the fluid because copper conducts heat.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Yeah, but we're comparing apples to apples here as they're all AMD CPUs.

I'm not sure of your point here. Regardless of CPU you want to have some idea of the real wattage (that fits your usage) so you can pick the appropriate cooler that can dissipate that amount of heat or you might get your performance throttled.

Well that also depends because not all air coolers are noisy. I can attest to the fact that the Wraith Prism is quiet enough that I don't hear it at all.

I think there was at least three models of Wraith cooler that came with Ryzen CPU's if my memory serves correctly? I could hear them all when they needed to ramp up under medium-high loads. Not the end of the world but....
Most of the time I don't hear my NH-C14S but when I do I know my CPU peeked over 75c for a bit.
In contrast for liquid cooling depending on your setup you can fix your rpm of your fans and pump to quiet levels and never hear them ramp up letting your liquid run warmer during the higher workloads. Alternatively you can base the fan speeds on the liquid temp providing a smoother gradient of control especially when the CPU is popping up and down in usage.
FYI I'm not saying air coolers are bad, I'm saying liquid cooling gives you more choices in controlling fan speed and noise. Of course this comes with a higher cost and higher build planning requirements.

Oh I agree with you there. I didn't say that leakage was a big risk, I just said that it was a risk. It's like a small risk but with huge consequences if it happens.

Liquid cooling isn't for the risk adverse. Having said that I also keep an air cooled spare PC that I use for gaming. Ended up actually needing it once after I tricked my motherboard in committing seppuku with PBO. You can read about it here if your looking for some entertainment.

As for quality, most of the AIOs that I've seen are re-branded Asetek units. It's kind of like how PSUs have OEMs and RAM comes from Samsung, Hynix and Micron no matter the "brand". I think that the biggest positive about a custom loop is that you can include your GPU in the coolant's route and liquid cooling would make a bigger difference to your GPU than CPU. The biggest negative about it is that it can be horrifically expensive. I once looked at the cost of parts for a closed-loop liquid cooling setup and was aghast at what it would cost. I don't remember how many hundreds of dollars it was but I do remember that I never looked at it again.

That estimate of "many hundreds of dollars" sound a little low but it depends how much you need, where you source your parts (looking at you EK), and how much aesthetics contribute to your individual build (looking at you JayzTwoCents). Don't forget there are recurring costs (liquid replacement) and time costs (maintenance). Liquid cooling isn't all about performance but also incorporates aesthetics and style. (and for some bragging rights I suppose) AIO's kind of take the joy out of building a liquid cooled rig in my opinion but reduce the complexity and cost.

When you think about it, if you want the absolute BEST quality in a custom-loop without paying through the nose, you should just go to Home Depot, get plumbing-grade copper and solder it together like a real plumber would. It'll look like hell but not only will it never leak, the copper pipe would also help cool the fluid because copper conducts heat.

There are some practical and impractical realities to what you suggest. Sticking a torch in your case isn't a good option to solder some joints. You're not going to find PC CPU and GPU water blocks at Home Depot so you're talking about a fairly good amount of fabrication work and time is money.

 

[cvaldes]

When you think about it, if you want the absolute BEST quality in a custom-loop without paying through the nose, you should just go to Home Depot, get plumbing-grade copper and solder it together like a real plumber would. It'll look like hell but not only will it never leak, the copper pipe would also help cool the fluid because copper conducts heat.

Yeah, and you would need the right tools and more importantly enough real world experience to do this successfully, like 5-10 years of regular welding/soldering work.

This is similar to the frequent "just fire up the soldering iron and fix it yourself" inane responses that pollute PC hardware Q&A forums.

Guess what? Most of us do other things for a living, so we don't actually spend enough time hands on to weld our own custom loops for our PCs. And how many people here are willing to put their awesome welding skills on the line and possibly risk thousands of dollars of PC components?

I love these sort of Rube Goldbergian suggestions. Sooo connected to reality.

 

[claes]

I mean, copper bends. You don’t need to weld anything to use copper tubing.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Copper does give a cool steampunk look

 

[bug]

Hi,
Copper does give a cool steampunk look

Copper IS steampunk

 

[ThrashZone]

Copper IS steampunk

Hi,
Yep copper tubing brass fittings damn just bring it

 

[trsttte]

I mean, copper bends. You don’t need to weld anything to use copper tubing.

But you can weld it instead of using fittings