Does the USB port matter for Keyboard/Mouse?

[AusWolf]

Whenever I play like that I suffer from insane tearing.

Try enabling enhanced/fast sync in your GPU driver, or adaptive sync.

 

[Macro Device]

Try enabling enhanced/fast sync in your GPU driver, or adaptive sync.

Of course I enabled all that stuff and tried a gajillion different variations of drivers and settings. Also tried going NVIDIA. DOES NOT HELP. FPS higher than my monitor's refresh rate = insane tearing. No exceptions.

 

[Sunny and 75]

Just use USB 2.0 ports.

This^

 

[AusWolf]

Of course I enabled all that stuff and tried a gajillion different variations of drivers and settings. Also tried going NVIDIA. DOES NOT HELP. FPS higher than my monitor's refresh rate = insane tearing. No exceptions.

Look, I have zero clue about your technical knowledge and brainpower. I only suggested something that works for me. Enhanced/Fast sync = no frame above your monitor's refresh rate is displayed, therefore it should do the trick. If you've tried it and it didn't work, fair play. It doesn't in any way mean that I thought you were dumb.

 

[Klemc]

Look, I have zero clue about your technical knowledge and brainpower. I only suggested something that works for me. Enhanced/Fast sync = no frame above your monitor's refresh rate is displayed, therefore it should do the trick. If you've tried it and it didn't work, fair play. It doesn't in any way mean that I thought you were dumb.

Once i seen a game render transparent stuffs when i set it to 1/2 RR... had to disable/default.

 

[Chomiq]

I will go through the basic. V-Sync OFF in game. V-Sync ON in driver. Cap FPS 3 fps below refresh rate. You want to avoid exceeding the refresh rate. Nvidia goes as far as to limit the fps by 5% of the refresh rate with low latency mode set to ultra or with reflex on. As for enhanced/fast sync I would consider it an option if you can constantly exceed the refresh rate.

Whenever I play like that I suffer from insane tearing.

Also apparently I'm too slow to benefit from fast polling on my mouse as my experience doesn't differ on 1000 Hz from that on 125 Hz. Well, I always knew I'm not fast.

Per Blurbusters:

Unlike Fast Sync, however, Enhanced Sync acts more like Nvidia’s Adaptive VSync whenever the framerate falls below the refresh rate, where it can dynamically disable itself and allow tearing to maintain input responsiveness at lower framerates.

So yeah, if you're running high refresh rate and can't maintain your FPS above the refresh rate you will have tearing with Enhanced Sync on.

In that case using forced V-Sync in driver with fps cap should allow for no tearing with FreeSync on.

 

[Macro Device]

You seem to entirely miss the point. Shame.

 

[Chomiq]

You seem to entirely miss the point. Shame.

You: "Whenever I play like that I suffer from insane tearing."
AusWolf: "Try enabling enhanced/fast sync in your GPU driver, or adaptive sync."
You: "You're acting like I'm the most complete dumb ass and never try obvious things."

I provided you basically all possible options to work around tearing issues on AMD.

But hey, good luck to you.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Sure, but I do get a bit tired of "the human eye can only see 24 FPS"

It's not true anyway.

The human "eye" is capable of detecting much greater frame rates. It is our brains that have "learned" to accept 24FPS as "normal". And this is simply because 100 years ago, when "talkies" started to replace "silent" movies, it was determined (through trial and error) 24FPS was the ideal speed to support "sound synchronization" - so the actors lips moved in sync with their voices. 24FPS also provided a comfortable, "aesthetically pleasing" visual rhythm our brains could easily deal with to ensure motion was "perceived" by our brains as blur-free.

AT THE SAME TIME, 24FPS was deemed as "economical" in terms of using, developing, editing, transporting and projecting film "footage".

So claiming the human eye can only see 24 FPS is simply false. It is simply what our brains have become accustomed to, almost since birth as our parents planted us in front of the TV to keep us occupied.

 

[Vayra86]

FreeSync ultimate monitor. Done. I barely even look at refresh settings anymore at all, shit just works, especially given Adrenaline's excellent support. Havent seen a single tear with just an fps cap at max monitor refresh rate. No need to undercap either.

Back on pascal cards it was a per game affair, fast sync was a good option exclusively for games where you can achieve fps much higher than desired monitor refresh. Didnt have a VRR capable monitor then either. Adaptive vsync was the easier setting to apply universally. Fast sync would indeed tear or rather, occasionally stutter a little.

 

[Macro Device]

I provided you basically all possible options to work around tearing issues on AMD.

You did not. You didn't even bother asking me what I'm trying to achieve.

I have a 60 Hz display and a couple games that have a bit too much of input lag with vsync being enabled BUT whenever I disable vsync (be it these two games or any other game) I run into massive tearing issues that are impossible to overcome, unless I enable vsync on again. Nothing that you suggested and nothing that I tried was of any help. No matter how little or how much above 60 FPS I'm running and no matter how stable my frametime graph is the screen is full of tears.

So I'm just playing these games with vsync on knowing I'm not getting full juice out of my inputs but at least my eyes don't hurt. I don't have a spare thousand dollars to buy a 4K144 display of high enough quality. And I will never look at lower resolution options, my eyes are too old for that.

 

[Chomiq]

You did not. You didn't even bother asking me what I'm trying to achieve.

I have a 60 Hz display and a couple games that have a bit too much of input lag with vsync being enabled BUT whenever I disable vsync (be it these two games or any other game) I run into massive tearing issues that are impossible to overcome, unless I enable vsync on again. Nothing that you suggested and nothing that I tried was of any help. No matter how little or how much above 60 FPS I'm running and no matter how stable my frametime graph is the screen is full of tears.

So I'm just playing these games with vsync on knowing I'm not getting full juice out of my inputs but at least my eyes don't hurt. I don't have a spare thousand dollars to buy a 4K144 display of high enough quality. And I will never look at lower resolution options, my eyes are too old for that.

Then maybe, just maybe say this BEFORE you criticize the people trying to help you.

 

[Klemc]

Then maybe, just maybe say this BEFORE you criticize the people trying to help you.

Beware, it's a Dragoon ?

 

[pzogel]

Would you be able to explain to me how 0.1 ms click latency could be achieved with 1000 Hz, which refreshes every 1 ms?

Many mice have improved click latency as polling rate increases. Some do not, but I suspect this is because clicks are transmitted at a rate higher than 1000 Hz, i.e. whenever they are made, but tracking is not.

For example the Viper V3 Hyperspeed, which goes from 0.8, 0.6, 0.5, 0.45 ms as polling rate increases.

This kind of "flexible" polling rate is also seen in other respects, where the mouse will only actually poll at those higher rates if the CPI is set sufficiently high, otherwise it will poll as high as the CPI allows for, to save battery.

It also seems pretty clear to me that the click latency charts are dominated by high polling rate mice. Whether that is unrelated or related is open to interpretation, but I can certainly see the advantages of sub ms polling if you are looking to minimize latency.

I can clear this up, paging @Onasi as well.

The important distinction in this regard is USB full-speed and USB high-speed. The former is restricted to a frame size of 1 ms, thus restricting the polling interval to 1 ms (1000 Hz). The latter has a frame size of 125 us, thus allowing up to 8 microframes per frame (8000 Hz). For a frame size of 1 ms, the lowest possible (ideal) click latency is 0.5 ms on average. Hence, all mice achieving sub-0.5 ms latency numbers at 1000 Hz necessarily are USB high-speed mice (such as the OP1 8K, for instance), and for those, the lowest possible click latency is 62.5 us on average. If set to 1000 Hz, the OP1 8K will send sensor motion data every 1 ms, but if there are any click events, they'll be sent at the next available microframe, regardless of whether motion data would be sent at some other point in time. This way, click latency will be the same regardless of the set polling rate, and as low as possible on a USB high-speed mouse.

Keep in mind that this is part of firmware design, and other USB high-speed mice handle things differently—Razer USB high-speed mice, for instance, do not decouple motion and click data, and the same goes for many USB full-speed mice as well, such as the Logitech G203, which has higher click latency the lower the polling rate. On the other hand, we have the CHERRY XTRFY M64/M68 Pro, which have the same click latency regardless of polling rate, even when wireless. It really is a matter of firmware design.

 

[Macro Device]

Then maybe, just maybe say this BEFORE you criticize the people trying to help you.

No. Collecting data before giving advice (which hadn't been asked for in the first place) is on people, not on me. I didn't ask for help. This is too off-topic already so I'm outta here.

 

[Waldorf]

funny how many are arguing about gaming/common, and try to explain the universe, instead of actually looking at the hw the OP has.

@fec32a4de
use the 2.0 for kb/m, as long as the mouse port is black (2.0).

@dgianstefani
my x570S (so not even an early unit), still has 2.0, part of the reason i bought it.

many brands still have gaming mice in their current lineup that use 2.0 with "high" polling rate (limited to 1000 Hz), and i havent seen any problems vs same mouse used on 3.0.

@Beginner Macro Device
lol, that's how vsync on/off works. if your fps is higher because of low gpu load etc, its gonna tear, unless you use a gsync/freesync or vrr display.

if you dont care about advice, maybe dont post about having a problem?
its not like the forum is a place where ppl post statements, without expecting response...

 

[OldNotObsolete]

I use 8000 Hz hyperpolling, so I ensure to connect the transceiver to a USB 3.x port directly routed to the CPU, not through a chipset first.

For 1000 Hz and below, it does not matter, unless the peripheral requires more wattage than the USB 2.0 port can provide, which is unlikely.

Check the relevant section in any high polling mouse review.

MCHOSE AX5 Pro Max Review

Weighing 55 g, the ambidextrous AX5 Pro Max comes with a magnesium alloy shell. Equipped with PixArt's PAW3395 sensor, the AX5 Pro Max is capable of both Bluetooth and 2.4 GHz, achieving up to 130 hours of battery life, along with 8000 Hz wired and wireless polling.

www.techpowerup.com

If you want sub 1 ms click latency along with the other benefits, such as better tracking etc, then you're unlikely to get that from a 1000 Hz or lower mouse.

View attachment 355897

Therefore, use a native USB 3.0 port if your device is fast enough to use it.

I'll tell you with what else you won't get anywhere REMOTELY near sub 1 ms click latency... the human brain to the human finger. ‍

 

[Waldorf]

@OldNotObsolete
early days of gaming with a 125 Hz mouse, i died 10:1 (d:k) playing UT, after getting advice from other fps gamers at the lan party, and swapped for 1000 Hz G mouse, i did 1:10 when we played again couple month later (same pc hw).


so despite the lack of possible improvements on the human side, going with "better" than 5$-on sale-bin is a good idea if do play more than point and click stuff..

 

[OldNotObsolete]

@OldNotObsolete
early days of gaming with a 125 Hz mouse, i died 10:1 (d:k) playing UT, after getting advice from other fps gamers at the lan party, and swapped for 1000 Hz G mouse, i did 1:10 when we played again couple month later (same pc hw).


so despite the lack of possible improvements on the human side, going with "better" than 5$-on sale-bin is a good idea if do play more than point and click stuff..

Oh, I bet! ... and while i didnt spend a fortune as I'm only a casual gamer I have a halfway decent gaming mouse. My comment was only aimed at the, to my mind, rather ludicrous idea that for a human being there is any benefit to having a device with less than 1/1000ths of a second lag over one that has say 3/1000ths of a second lag!

 

[EugeneWei]

Hello

Got an interesting, perhaps stupid question for yall....

Does it matter which USB port you use for a keyboard or a mouse?

I got an X570 mobo with 4 USB2.0 ports, a few 3.0 (5Gbps ports) and 3.1 Gen 1 Service Pack 3 Professional lite edition whateveritscallednow (10Gbps ports)

The connectors on every any mouse and keyboard I have in the house has 4 pins for USB2.0, cause they don't need more bandwidth but whatever.

So: does it actually matter if I use 480Mbps ports, 5Gbps ports or 10Gbps ports for keyboard and mouse? I don't have a lot of USB devices so I got free ports to go around.

Maybe some are CPU attached vs PCH/Chipset attached? Block diagram isn't available, but does it really make a difference?

Microseconds, few milliseconds?

Thanks

I personally think that it is not too important which USB port to use for peripheral devices such as keyboards and mice, because these devices have lower requirements for data transfer speed. Keyboards and mice usually do not require high-speed data transfer of USB 3.0 or higher, so connecting to a USB 2.0 port is usually sufficient.
In addition, the power requirements of most keyboards and mice are low, so there is no need to consider the power supply capacity of the port.
Of course, if there are more devices, you may need to consider how to reasonably allocate USB ports to ensure that other devices that require high-speed transmission or high power (such as external hard drives or cameras) are connected to the appropriate ports.
In general, the choice of which USB port depends mainly on convenience and availability, rather than technical performance.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I personally think that it is not too important which USB port to use for peripheral devices such as keyboards and mice, because these devices have lower requirements for data transfer speed.

Raw bandwidth, no. Low Latency, yes.

 

[AleXXX666]

I've only had minor problems with my old Oculus Rift CV1 with my B550 board, and they were with R5 3600. Actually upgrading to Zen3 squashed those USB bugs, at least with my PC.

Updated my BIOS also yesterday and on changelog Gigabyte says "Update AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.C", if that means anything. I'm not that familiar with AGESA and what it even actually does.

yes for VR you need better USB-C port, my quest 2 worked better with C port rather than shitty USB-A cable.

The only exceptions to the rule of “just use USB 2.0” are the high-polling mice and keyboards. By that I mean those above 1000 Hz. This is due to faster interrupts that XHCI can provide and using that by default necessitates USB 3.x. It’s a very niche use-case, granted. And no, regular 1000 Hz devices will not benefit in any way.

as you said - it's "niche" products with overpriced tags usually.

 

[Waldorf]

@AleXXX666has nothing to do with C or A, just power/speed requurements.

one out of the 2 native C ports my board has, is not even 3.0, while i have +4 usb A ports with 3.1, and same for charging.
part of the reason why there are different colors for A ports, if ppl would pay attention and learn why..

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

I've only had minor problems with my old Oculus Rift CV1 with my B550 board, and they were with R5 3600. Actually upgrading to Zen3 squashed those USB bugs, at least with my PC.

Updated my BIOS also yesterday and on changelog Gigabyte says "Update AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.C", if that means anything. I'm not that familiar with AGESA and what it even actually does.

You don't need to worry about AGESA, it is a included software component that motherboard makers bundle into their BIOS binaries to help initialize the CPU, chipset, etc.

Consumers can't even update AGESA on their own, so I just look for new BIOS releases if a solution mentions AGESA. You did that already.

The AGESA/BIOS is entirely separate from updating your chipset drivers which can also solve USB bugs.

 

[Waldorf]

@TechBuyingHavoc
except there are lots of fixes being put out that dont include changes to AGESA.

so ppl might be missing updates that fixed an issue, just because that update didnt incl a new agesa release, ignoring that there are agesa releases that only apply to latest cpu release, and ppl with the older gen shouldnt even install/use those, meaning blindly uodating to latest version is almost as bad as those that never update.