DRAM Calculator questions and "safe" settings.

[concretefire]

I will list my rig and the steps I have taken so far and what the problem is.........

Asus Tuf Gaming X570 Plus wifi. 3700X CPU. Gskill Ripjaws V 3600mhz cl 16-19-19-39 @1.35v. Decent enough GTX 1060 3GB MSI card. I don't game much. 600 W PSU, brand new. EVEGA or whatever that brand is.

(I'm aware 600 is on the line of being "too low" - but it's not below the line IMHO) (I got a 750W I should have dropped in there, long story)

I wanted to tighten my timings. I downloaded Ryzen Master, Typhoon, and Dram Calc. Installed RM and set up a "base hardware" profile in the bios. RM matches those settings on the "Home" tab in RM. (That's good)

So I open Typhoon, tell it to "read" from one of my memory sticks. It does. I then click on report / scroll all the way to the bottom and expand the super secret menu........then I export that whole thing to an Html file. My sticks XMP file, essentially.

Then I load Dram Calc. I import that Html file and it reads everything correctly. * I HAVE MADE SURE DOZENS OF TIMES * that ALL the settings match up and are as they should be.........Example: I'm running X570 board. I know B550 is NOT selected. It's all correct........

Great! So I slowly start adjusting my timings downwards to try to match Dram Calc "Safe" speeds and I try a few at a time and then Apply and Test in Ryzen Master. I have gotten almost Every setting to match perfectly but Dram Calc says I ought to be able to run CL 14 and when I try to apply THAT setting in RM, and test it.........PC won't boot. Have to CLR Cmos.

Why can I almost every other # to match what DRAM Calc should be "Safe" except for CL? When I change that from 16 to 14 ---as the Calc suggests....... It's no good. Won't boot. What can I try?

 

[JMF]

That's going to depend on the PCB revision and ICs that are on your RAM. You didn't mention the specific model, but if it's 2x8Gb I think that kit is dual rank A0/B0 revision B-die, 2x16Gb and 4x8Gb might be A3/A2/B2 revision B die. A0/B0 revision may not be able to hit C14 at 3600MT or may require quite a bit more vDIMM than recommended. Also worth noting which motherboard you have; depending on how the DIMMS are configured the same memory may or may not overclock the same on different boards. I'm on a dual DIMM board that's easier to get higher clocks with. 4 DIMM boards will be either daisy chain or T-topology; daisy chain boards will have one pair of DIMM slots that run better than the other slots. The numbers the calculator spits out are a suggestion; YMMV based on silicon quality lottery.

I have F4-3200-C14D-32GVK (2x16Gb C14 3200MT A3 B Die) that took nearly a week to get windows to boot at 3600 C14 and another week of tweaking to get it 100% stable. Just passing the first 24 hour pass of Prime95 as I type this.

Set PROC_ODT to 60, CAD bus settings 24-24-24-24.
If that helps but you're not stable try setting RTT_Nom and RTT WR in the 2-3-4 range and RTT Park in the 3-4-5 range.
You will probably also need to set Load Line Calibration to 2 or 3 and the Current Capabillity to 120 or 130% for both the CPU and SOC.
After setting those, start adjusting vSOC and vDDG (CCD and IOD) together. vDDG should be close to -50mv from vSOC. vSOC should be around 1.05-1.10v
Then adjust vCLDO, range is = vSOC-100mv to vSOC

Here's my settings. Do note that many of the values are different from the calculator's recommended settings. Voltages are a bit higher and push "safe" limits a little. Some of the timings are a little tighter. Good luck with your attempt.

2x16Gb B-Die memory running at 3600MHz 14-14-14-28-42-4-6-16-4-12-12-4-4-288(302, 416)-14-8-8-4-1-7-7-1-5-5-1

vCPU=1.3750 LLC3 120% VRM 400kHz Power duty [EXTREME] Ultra fast (runs at/near full boost always)
vDRAM=1.430 (48C, 82F ambient- 1.420 went 5 hours stable, 1.425 went 17 hours)
vSOC=1.100 LLC3 120% VRM 400kHz [EXTREME] (1.1V required for stability).
vDDG (both)=1.050 (min 1.000 to post, 1.020 to boot, 1.030 to bench. Optimal at -50mV from SoC at all settings.)
vCLDO=1.100 (min .900 to post. 0.950-1.050 is boot/bench stable but fails with time. Optimal at =SoC at all settings.)
Proc_ODT=60 (53 and 68 will not post)
RTT_NOM=RZQ3 (80) (Auto/Disabled and 4 (60) are unstable. 2(120) is stable at slight performance loss. 1(240) and 5(53) will not post.)
RTT_WR=RZQ3 (80) (only setting that will post)
RTT_Park=RZQ4 (60) (3 (80) is stable with the exception of windows fails to shut down properly. 5 (53) fails to post)
CAD 24-24-24-24 (24-20-24-24 and 24-20-20-24 bench better but are unstable. 24-30-24-24 may provide better stability, but at a slight cost to performance.)
GDM=ENABLED- disabled reduces bandwidth .5% and increases latency 10%
PDM=DISABLED

 

[concretefire]

That's going to depend on the PCB revision and ICs that are on your RAM. You didn't mention the specific model, but if it's 2x8Gb I think that kit is dual rank A0/B0 revision B-die, 2x16Gb and 4x8Gb might be A3/A2/B2 revision B die. A0/B0 revision may not be able to hit C14 at 3600MT or may require quite a bit more vDIMM than recommended. Also worth noting which motherboard you have; depending on how the DIMMS are configured the same memory may or may not overclock the same on different boards. I'm on a dual DIMM board that's easier to get higher clocks with. 4 DIMM boards will be either daisy chain or T-topology; daisy chain boards will have one pair of DIMM slots that run better than the other slots. The numbers the calculator spits out are a suggestion; YMMV based on silicon quality lottery.

I have F4-3200-C14D-32GVK (2x16Gb C14 3200MT A3 B Die) that took nearly a week to get windows to boot at 3600 C14 and another week of tweaking to get it 100% stable. Just passing the first 24 hour pass of Prime95 as I type this.

Set PROC_ODT to 60, CAD bus settings 24-24-24-24.
If that helps but you're not stable try setting RTT_Nom and RTT WR in the 2-3-4 range and RTT Park in the 3-4-5 range.
You will probably also need to set Load Line Calibration to 2 or 3 and the Current Capabillity to 120 or 130% for both the CPU and SOC.
After setting those, start adjusting vSOC and vDDG (CCD and IOD) together. vDDG should be close to -50mv from vSOC. vSOC should be around 1.05-1.10v
Then adjust vCLDO, range is = vSOC-100mv to vSOC

Here's my settings. Do note that many of the values are different from the calculator's recommended settings. Voltages are a bit higher and push "safe" limits a little. Some of the timings are a little tighter. Good luck with your attempt.

2x16Gb B-Die memory running at 3600MHz 14-14-14-28-42-4-6-16-4-12-12-4-4-288(302, 416)-14-8-8-4-1-7-7-1-5-5-1

vCPU=1.3750 LLC3 120% VRM 400kHz Power duty [EXTREME] Ultra fast (runs at/near full boost always)
vDRAM=1.430 (48C, 82F ambient- 1.420 went 5 hours stable, 1.425 went 17 hours)
vSOC=1.100 LLC3 120% VRM 400kHz [EXTREME] (1.1V required for stability).
vDDG (both)=1.050 (min 1.000 to post, 1.020 to boot, 1.030 to bench. Optimal at -50mV from SoC at all settings.)
vCLDO=1.100 (min .900 to post. 0.950-1.050 is boot/bench stable but fails with time. Optimal at =SoC at all settings.)
Proc_ODT=60 (53 and 68 will not post)
RTT_NOM=RZQ3 (80) (Auto/Disabled and 4 (60) are unstable. 2(120) is stable at slight performance loss. 1(240) and 5(53) will not post.)
RTT_WR=RZQ3 (80) (only setting that will post)
RTT_Park=RZQ4 (60) (3 (80) is stable with the exception of windows fails to shut down properly. 5 (53) fails to post)
CAD 24-24-24-24 (24-20-24-24 and 24-20-20-24 bench better but are unstable. 24-30-24-24 may provide better stability, but at a slight cost to performance.)
GDM=ENABLED- disabled reduces bandwidth .5% and increases latency 10%
PDM=DISABLED

Bottom line: Yep. I was indeed over looking the PCB part and letting it ride on "manual." ----- It was by coincidence I hovered over it breifly and read, and re-read several times what it was saying. I logically put 2 and 2 together and said > "My Gskills" ought to , at the very least have "good" dies....... not crappy bottom of the bin stuff.......so I then selected A2/A0/A3 or whatever - the highest quality (in theory) and then re-calculated the results...........

I got an entirely different set. And the CL 14 was mysteriously just gone and it said 16. Now all my other settings match it perfectly. Nuance of the program / RTFM / etc......lol.......

 

[TheLostSwede]

In Thaiphoon burner, did you scroll down and click on Show delays in nanoseconds in the report, before exporting it?
You said you expanded the super secret section, not sure what that is...
And you selected the Complete HMTL report, not just the regular one, right?

Don't set the memory timings in Ryzen Master, set them in the UEFI. The system needs to do memory training and that can't be done if you try to do it from within Windows.

Supposedly A0/A1 is the highest PCB quality. Keep in mind that when you select a DRAM PCB revision option other than manual, the exported data from Thaiphoon is being ignored, hence why the CL 14 option is gone. You can only use the manual option when you import data, as that's based on the XMP data of your specific module(s).

Also, don't forget to set the correct Voltage, which you might have to increase beyond 1.35V to get CL 14 stable.

 

[tabascosauz]

-snip-

I don't know where this assumption is coming from that Ripjaws 3600 16-19-19 is B-die.

B-die that is sold by G.skill and XMP rated for 3600 is never going to be rated for 16-19-19-39. 16-19-19-39 is as clear an indicator as there ever was that the chips are CJR or DJR.

In 2020, you should only be finding G.skill B-die in 3200 14-14-14 and 3600 16-16-16 Z / Neo / Royal kits, in addition to 4000+ Royal kits.

3600 16-16-16 or 3200 14-14-14 is B-die, because it literally can't be anything else.
3600 16-18-18 is Rev.E, especially if it's from Crucial. Rev.E gets to that tRCD and tRP in exchange for tRFC that's in the 500s.
3600 16-19-19 is CJR or DJR. Neither of those Hynix ICs scale to 18-18.

CJR or DJR is not getting anywhere close to 14-14-14 at 3600. Neither is it going to get below 400 tRFC at those speeds. Of course CJR's not going to boot. You could give it 1.5V and it still won't at those speeds.

Like I've said a billion times, not sure about this fixation with importing Thaiphoon data just so Calc can work. The stock suggestions work just fine without trying to bend the Calc to your XMP data, 1usmus isn't an idiot.
- Open up Calc.
- Select Zen 2.
- Select CJR/DJR.
- Start with A3/A2/B2 PCB. Go to A0/B0 if it doesn't work.
- Whatever # of ranks, whatever speed, whatever number of DIMMs
- Whichever board, doesn't really affect suggestions.
- Hit the Safe or Fast button.
- Profit??

As to @concretefire, put in the timings in the first column from tCL to tWRWR, and then add in either tRFC or tRFC (alt).
Leave tRFC2 and tRFC4 for your BIOS to figure out.
For tCWL, tRTP and tRDWR, come back after your memory setup is verified to be stable in HCI / Karhu.
Follow the Calc's DRAM voltage and VSoC recommendation.

Like I've said before, the PCB revision for CJR/DJR merely provides a profile for the vast majority of sticks (A3/A2/B2), with an additional alternative for the terribly binned hot garbage that can't even make the usual safe profile (represented by A0/B0).

Recommending procODT of 60 makes no sense, because ideal procODT varies for every computer, and 60 is way too high for mundane 3600 CL16 speeds on Matisse, unless it just so bizarrely turns out to be the only procODT value that works. This isn't Pinnacle Ridge.