Drunk on GeForce Partner Program Koolaid, MSI Openly Slanders AMD Radeon

[R0H1T]

While performance on a graphics card doesn't change much (save for corrections on inept driver implementations, or bad game code), the pricing does. As I wrote, I quoted prices from Amazon. As I wrote, I specifically found whatever reviews I could which included the cards quoted. Let me know which one you need. I'll get it.



LOL. It's good that you're so clever that you can spot wally. wow.

I'll easily buy an AMD card next time I upgrade, so long as it doesn't kill my wallet, my electricity bill, and I feel I'm getting my money's worth. VEGA and Polaris are definitely not worth it.

Well then see you till next time, I'll assume you won't bother with the rest of this thread or us?

 

[CosmicWanderer]

The ONLY reason I have a GTX 1080 Ti right now and not Vega 64 is because of stock/price issues that the Vega cards were facing. My next upgrade will definitely be an AMD card from Sapphire. Screw Nvidia and its GPP partners.

 

[Vayra86]

The ONLY reason I have a GTX 1080 Ti right now and not Vega 64 is because of stock/price issues that the Vega cards were facing. My next upgrade will definitely be an AMD card from Sapphire. Screw Nvidia and its GPP partners.

You must be gutted you've got a 30% faster card now

 

[Bones]

Although it's an older one now I did grab an Asus Strix 380X GPU as my last GPU purchase and have no regrets in doing so. Has worked great from day one and met the needs of my useage.
Long story short I don't have a need for FPS + Infinity and with the Nvidia's priced so insanely I certainly woudn't go out and grab one now.

This one was cheaper even back then and will do the job for awhile to come..... For me at least.
Can't speak for anyone else but hey..... I'm happy with it.

 

[Steevo]

ITT, MRI butthurt they never sold any crypto cards to make big bank. Fanboys of all colors get butthurt by cards MSI could have made, fine wine, and Lemming tells us why they feel AMD power consumption is bad.

I stopped buying MSI after a colossal fucking with cheap coolers on motherboards. Why would I trust them with my money in a graphics card? It's a little player trying to make big waves, using the power of the fanboy. If you fell for it, congrats in being their tool.

 

[John Naylor]

1., The superior claim is inarguable at the top end ... look at the numbers in TPUs tests, add the significant overclocking advantage and compare. Numbers are not subject to interpretation. Lower scores are never better

2. Why is that techies expect tech companies to act different than any other company in America ? Capoitalism, it has a definition... look it up. That's the American way .... corporate mantra is dog it dog, crush the competition. The mindset that they 'should be nice' or "invest billions in R & D and than "share the results" does not fit in any corporate culture.

3. The naming thing is being misreported and misinterpreted. here we have nVidia and AMD cards sharing a model line "Gaming X"

MSI 480 Gaming X - https://us.msi.com/Graphics-card/Radeon-RX-480-GAMING-X-8G.html
MSI 1060 Gaming X - https://us.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060-GAMING-X-6G.html

nVidia has significantly ightened what vendors can do with their cards, both with card design and legally, with last few successive generations. What they are now saying, is that they are willing to work with partners to "loosen up those restraints" on partners. In exchange for the time, effort and money invested in that program, it is expected that "both partners" will benefit from increased sales and greater "mindshare" from this endeavor. And like their technical proprietary technology, they don't want that investment in any way benefiting their competition.

So if they work with MSI and allow MSI to make PCB improvments providing better VRMs, nmore phases, fatser memory, better cooling. nVidia can say "OK, when our driver detects the "MSI Usain Bolt (male track star) 2080 Ti", we will allow Boost 3 to clock an extra xxx MHz, allow power limiter to hit 150% and allow voltages of +xx mv. A card with those advantages will no doubt be sought after by reviewers and gaming enthusiasts. So all nVidia is saying is ... after we helped MSI gain recognition for the UB line of cards, you can't use the UB naming convention on competition's cards ... So if MSI wants to do a hi end line for AMD, they can issue the "MSI Lolo Jones (female track star) Vega 72" line w/o complaint.

As far as the subject site ... I expect we'll find that it was a hack, a whacko employee or MSi corporate takes some kind of disciplinary action.

As far as brand loyalty ... it's a fools errand to rely on personal experiences and apply them over time. Its like betting on the Yankees in baseball to take it all this year because they won 3 World Series in a row from 1998 - 2000 or the Cubs hadn't won in 100 years. The only record you can go by is "what did they do last year" and what's changed there as well as the competition. We were strictly an Asus shop for 10 years but our experiences with Z87 and Z97 and since the 6xx series were horrible. Returing a WS board resulted in a banana shaped replacement twhereby yiu couldn't bend the board back enough to get the IO panel thru the case opening. It took 3 months to rplace that baord. Other builds had the BIOS clock freeze bug for which the promised BIUOS fix never arrived. Meanwhile MSI had done a lot innovation and quality wise since then and Gigabyte remains strong with many model lines. Asus has since pretty much returned almost to the level of the glory years.

If ya look at reliability, the brands overall are remarkably close (1.48 - 1.63% return rate). The best the user can do is avoid the board and cards with failure rates well above the ave5age... in most recent analysis

5,71% ASUS Z170I-PRO Gaming
5,59% ASUS X99 Strix Gaming
4,70% MSI B150M PRO-VDH D3
4,17% ASUS B150I PRO GAMING/WIFI/AURA
3,81% ASRock FM2A58M-VG3+
3,45% MSI X99A Gaming 7
3,17% ASUS X99-A II
2,23% MSI Z170A Gaming M3
2,19% ASUS Z170-A
2,08% GIGABYTE GA-Z170XP-SLI

7,69% Sapphire NITRO+ Radeon RX 480 4G
7,00% Inno3D iChill GeForce GTX 1070 X4
6,69% Sapphire NITRO+ Radeon RX 480 8G OC
5,98% Sapphire Radeon RX 480 8GD5
5,08% MSI Radeon RX 470 GAMING X 4G
5,00% Sapphire NITRO+ Radeon RX 480 8G
4,79% ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1070 AMP! Extreme
3,02% ASUS GeForce GTX 1080 - ROG STRIX-GTX1080-8G-GAMING
2,54% MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Founders Edition
2,13% EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0

Overll failure rates for GFX cards by brand .. again mist within the 1.13 and 1.30 spread ... Sapphire being way out due to the problematic 480

Zotac 1,13%
EVGA 1,19%
Gigabyte 1,19%
MSI 1,29%
Asus 1,30%)
Palit/Gainward 1,49%
Inno3D 1,56%
Sapphire 2,90%

 

[Vayra86]

ITT, MRI butthurt they never sold any crypto cards to make big bank. Fanboys of all colors get butthurt by cards MSI could have made, fine wine, and Lemming tells us why they feel AMD power consumption is bad.

I stopped buying MSI after a colossal fucking with cheap coolers on motherboards. Why would I trust them with my money in a graphics card? It's a little player trying to make big waves, using the power of the fanboy. If you fell for it, congrats in being their tool.

Eh? I thought you were one of the sane people. MSI being crap was almost (or over, I don't even know) 10 years ago...

 

[newtekie1]

Wait, so I'm a little confused. I'm actually trying to find where the slander actually occurs.

The context is we are discussing notebooks, and the truth is that AMD's mobile offerings are behind nVidia's. As far as I know, for something to be slander, it has to be untrue. Unless the definition of slander changed?

 

[Recus]

Um he was correct and still is.. At the time when he said it NVIDIA linux support was UTTER GARBAGE

So how MSI is wrong?

From "we crush the competition" to "sub-par".

Context people, context. The GeForce Partner is piss on the customers. Literally. If you think consumers will benefit from it, you should get on rehab from that koolaid. NVIDIA only makes it to screw everyone and reinforce their market position. Which is on a market with only 2 players even more damning for the consumers.

Here some context for you. Microsoft and Sony are two major players. Developers/publishers are "AIBs". MS and Sony decides which game comes to Xbox or PS and finally to PC. Where's your jihad against that?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

How does this rake money off the regular Joe?
A. You seem to forget that if MSI drops AMD it wouldn't be the first AIB that does it. It happened the other way around as well back with Club3D for example when they committed to ATI.
B. If they decided to do this I bet AMD is well aware of the situation and if they can live with it so can the average Joe.


You people are going to start a full fledged flame-war on naming schemes and cooling solutions -> basically bullshit. Again if MSI or whoever else decides to jump ship they have their own reasons to do so (either AMD's shit isn't supplied by the right amount for them to break even or nVidia's shit generates more profit. I for one fail to grasp how supporting this bullshit will result in something productive. AIB's dropped GPU makers before and this won't be the last time but as long as they didn't fully drop them that means that AMD is ok with taking the back-seat otherwise they would've been sweetening the pot.
At the end of the day everybody wants to make a profit and if that means upsetting a couple of tech-savy people be it. It's a business not a charity but you can flame on other more serious issues this is just plain drool-dripping PR bullshit.

Im not writing essays, I'm not defending or attacking Any brand , im Not flameing in Any way.
But im also not delusional about the impact of this on joe public or AMD's bottom line.
You keep saying it's Msi's business right to do as they wish , it is i agree , but i don't agree that we all have to lump it without voicing concern like you seam to be implying.
Oh and to your points
A Oems can sell what they like, but if they all colude with a manufacturer, eventually price joins the affected list of things , see the capacitor industry or Intel for proof.
B Amd are well aware, they pointed media outlets at the issue and here we are, they're Not alright with it, you are.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

You must be gutted you've got a 30% faster card now

Yeah, for $300 more than Vega 64's MSRP. Like I said, had Vega been sold at MSRP and in stock I would have went for it instead given I already have a FreeSync display.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Yeah, for $300 more than Vega 64's MSRP. Like I said, had Vega been sold at MSRP and in stock I would have went for it instead given I already have a FreeSync display.

What about real retail price ? It is $300 more than Vega 64 ? Has it ever been $300 more than Vega 64 ? That $399 msrp was the only way they could get positive reviews, so they made it up. It'sa $500 card when it sells at a normal price.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

What about real retail price ? It is $300 more than Vega 64 ? Has it ever been $300 more than Vega 64 ? That $399 msrp was the only way they could get positive reviews, so they made it up. It'sa $500 card when it sells at a normal price.

Vega 64's MSRP was $499. I got my 1080 Ti Strix for around $799.

 

[Vya Domus]

. It'sa $500 card when it sells at a normal price.

Uhm , it was 500$ from the beginning...

 

[cucker tarlson]

Uhm , it was 500$ from the beginning...

That's why he's off by $100 saying 1080ti was $300 more than vega 64. Strix 1080ti is a top of the line aib card, $499 for for reference vega.

 

[rtwjunkie]

3. The naming thing is being misreported and misinterpreted. here we have nVidia and AMD cards sharing a model line "Gaming X"

Actually, I believe you are misreporting. The GPP just started. The program wont change the name of AMD Gaming X cards by MSI that are out in the wild already. It affects FUTURE production.

 

[Steevo]

Eh? I thought you were one of the sane people. MSI being crap was almost (or over, I don't even know) 10 years ago...

I will buy from anyone, except those who have shown their flag featuring shitty attitudes towards customers.

MSI hasn't changed colors. Their butthurt is on them, if they want to be part of GPP which is known to be anti-competitive, then flaunt it.... I hope they get what they deserve. Can anyone point out some amazing new product they have? If not they have the same stuff everyone else makes, with more words from the green hand up their ass working their proverbial mouth. If you are OK eating regurgitated Nvidia vomit, do it.

I will make up my own mind based on data, which I have to admit puts Nvidia ahead in performance, but behind on performance per dollar, ahead on proprietary innovation, but behind on gamer first attitude.

 

[Vayra86]

I will make up my own mind based on data, which I have to admit puts Nvidia ahead in performance, but behind on performance per dollar, ahead on proprietary innovation, but behind on gamer first attitude.

And so you should, but do realize that the last point you mentioned is entirely abstract and touted by every manufacturer. None of them are 'for the gamer'. Neither Nvidia or AMD. They make GPUs and they prefer selling them at as high a price as possible. Case in point with Vega: most of the production is fed towards MI25's and Frontier Editions, not regular 'gaming' cards.

I do get what you're saying. AMD has a rather much cleaner track record in terms of 'shady practices' overall. Then again, its also been on the short end of the stick for how long now? I cannot shake the feeling AMD is that sheep trying to play with wolves and I would much prefer a bit less sheep in AMD.

 

[D1RTYD1Z619]

Consumers will notice that the Nvidia-only sub-brands are like "kidnapped".

Beside the fact, that most "if available" AMD 8GB cards are gaming-wise overpriced,
the hurt done to AMD or the consumer is quiet low.

Nobody should blindly buy a card just by its name. Every top-brand could have a quality-issue sometime.

I agree don't buy a video card by its name. Do what I do and buy the one with the coolest box art.

 

[RejZoR]

So how MSI is wrong?

From "we crush the competition" to "sub-par".



Here some context for you. Microsoft and Sony are two major players. Developers/publishers are "AIBs". MS and Sony decides which game comes to Xbox or PS and finally to PC. Where's your jihad against that?

What the fuck has this to do with ANY of it? This is discussion about graphic cards, not games. !?

 

[FeelinFroggy]

Vega 64's MSRP was $499. I got my 1080 Ti Strix for around $799.

Upon release it was $499 if you bought the bundle and that was for the reference design. The 1080ti FE had a MSRP of $699.

How many people actually got a Vega 64 for $499? If you did not buy the bundle the card was $599. It was $699 for the liquid cooled version.

And how many people got a 1080ti for $699?

Who is playing who here???

 

[Recus]

What the fuck has this to do with ANY of it? This is discussion about graphic cards, not games. !?

When you shouldn't tell people to use context if it's too hard to understand.

 

[dozenfury]

I think the term slander might be a stretch. Plus this was a FB social media handler comment which MSI apologized for and said doesn't support their views. There have been plenty of corporations with social media handlers that have made incorrect and career altering statements. This person is probably already cleaning out their desk.

That said, it's also not really a false statement technically to say NV is ahead of AMD in terms of GPUs. I do think AMD is absolutely competitive especially at certain price/performance levels. So saying NV is ahead is debatable, but that's not quite the same as saying what the comment maybe (and the article definitely) insinuated that AMD is not competitive.

As far as the "draconic" NV agreement it forces vendors to sign, although it's obnoxious it's pretty normal for business in just about every industry. It's difficult to even think of an industry without things like this where the biggest fish make it more difficult for competitors in every way they legally can. This goes from things like printer manufacturers making third-party ink cartridges give errors to push people to buy their own overpriced ink cartridges, to grocery stores only giving shelf space and the best shelf space to the largest suppliers.

 

[RejZoR]

When you shouldn't tell people to use context if it's too hard to understand.

Thats not how any of this works. Sony or Microsoft are not creating a monopoly. I hate exclusives, but who gives a shit, it'll be their loss if I won't buy it. I haven't bought a single Ubisoft game for years because I openly boycott them and I'm just fine. I'm not one of those idiots who go and buy every console under the sun just so they can play those 3 dumb exclusives. So, I won't buy 3 games, whatever. When NVIDIA dictates on a market of 2 vendors, it sure as hell matters what they do. When Sony and Microsoft "dictate" anything on a market of hundreds of game studios and publishers with hundreds of games released monthly, how on Earth is that comparable to 2 graphic chip vendors? It's incomparable.

So, you saying I don't understand the context, to me, it seems like you a) don't understand what context really is and b) you don't know the situation on graphics market either when you go out with such absurd comparison on games market which doesn't even work as analogy to the graphics situation.

 

[Dave65]

MSI BOOT LICKING NVIDIA?
Say it ain't so!