EPIC CEO Tim Sweeney: "Exclusives do Work"

[Assimilator]

The amount of hate for Sweeney and Epic is ludicrous, it actually boggles my mind how people can be fanboys about freaking digital stores. Like seriously, are you so stupid you don't realise you're nothing but a potential consumer to them? They don't give a f**k about gamers or developers or choice, they only care about making money.

It just so happens that Epic's way of making money and building itself into a viable Steam competitor is timed exclusives. OH NO HOW TERRIBLE, some game developers chose to make more money by choosing Epic over Steam, we must boycott both for eternity because this somehow makes them evil. CHOICE = EVIL unless it's for consumers, amirite?

Epic is apparently extra evil because they don't make games anymore and subsidise their store with Fortnite and Unreal Engine money... hey guess how many good games Valve has made recently, or where they got the money to create Steam. They've been coasting on past successes for over a decade, to criticise Epic for the same is simply hypocrisy.

Epic's motives are hardly altruistic, but objectively: in the long run if their store succeeds, it will result in fairer deals for devs and lower prices for gamers, so everybody wins. If Epic's store becomes self-sustaining the timed exclusives will go away too. So I honestly can't comprehend why and how people can honestly argue against Epic's store here.

Yes, you can criticise it for not being as good as Steam (although that's not a high bar to reach TBH). Yes, you can criticise it because OMG another launcher (that apparently scrapes your Steam install and reports a lot of tracking info back to Epic). But there are literally zero grounds to criticise it in terms of long-term good for videogames in general.

I mean, have you seen the so-called Steam "Sales" over the past couple of years? Ever since they did away with the flash deals, it's just been the same crap recycled over and over again at the same completely meh prices. (Also a guaranteed crashed website on day 1 of the sale.) If Epic can fix just that by competing, they will be heroes in my book.

As for GOG, I have never found them compelling because it's simply easier to consume all my games through a single interface (Steam), all the games I've wanted to play have been available on Steam already, there's nothing that's cheaper on GOG as opposed to Steam, and GOG's "sales" are, quite frankly, terrible trash. Epic's timed exclusives - some of which are actually pretty good - at least force me to consider it, which is more than I can say for GOG. Yeah, I know GOG/CDPR don't have the massive cash reserves to get their own timed exclusives, but I honestly think that if they could it would do wonders for their profile, even if it was just people complaining about them - brand awareness is a very important thing, and GOG lacks it, but Epic's in the news every week.

 

[Imsochobo]

Actually Gabe did the same thing. In fact he spoke out even more prolifically and strongly against MS doing this.

This was the impetus for the (now failed/abandoned) Steam OS and Steam controller. He worried MS walled garden code would eventually lock out anything not distributed through MS store.

How quickly people forget.

an operating system store which is controlled in entirely by microsoft can easily do that.
Iphone is a great example, but even apple understands they cannot do it to macos because you cannot just revoke something.
So they abondon macos almost and going to develop IOS to be desktop friendly by making ipad a laptop but then you can only install App store apps, nothing else.
In app purchases there is not allowed unless giving apple 15-30%.

That concern is valid, epic is a different story for me, if you're only saying devs get more money.. whatever, where is the mod support and framework for that, where's the api's, where is the multios support, all the features.
forcing us to use it is the problem...

 

[Assimilator]

forcing us to use it is the problem...

Nobody is doing that.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Epic hasn't made any viable progress with their storefront to give me reason to spend real money there.

Then you’ve not paid any attention to the monthly feature updates progress.

Question: Did you spend money on the barebones Steam that started out? Or Origin? Or Uplay? They all started out pretty bad and have progressed nicely.

And that's the reason it sold worse on PC than ME1. Lots of people did not buy it and years later simply forgot about it.

Amazing, considering in only its first month alone it nearly equalled the ME PC sales total:

Mass Effect: A Sales History

Welcome to the second new weekly feature, “A Sales History.” The other weekly feature is the “Top 10 [...]

www.vgchartz.com

 

[zlobby]

Then you’ve not paid any attention to the monthly feature updates progress.

Question: Did you spend money on the barebones Steam that started out? Or Origin? Or Uplay? They all started out pretty bad and have progressed nicely.


Amazing, considering its first month alone it nearly equalled the ME PC sales total:

Mass Effect: A Sales History

Welcome to the second new weekly feature, “A Sales History.” The other weekly feature is the “Top 10 [...]

www.vgchartz.com

Origin and uplay progressed nicely?

 

[rtwjunkie]

whatever, where is the mod support and framework for that, where's the api's, where is the multios support, all the features.
forcing us to use it is the problem...

Epic publishes monthly EGS progress reports, available for anyone.

Origin and uplay progressed nicely?

Origin, while still pretty bad, does have alot of features they did not used to have. I just noticed about 6 months ago they finally have wishlists. It’s no longer a steaming hot mess like when it started.

Uplay has definitely come a long way. It is stable, smooth, and slick. It has a pretty good overlay, which includes friends and screenshots. For me at least, Uplay just works better than Steam. That is a huge plus. Then again, I don’t try to open up and run my Uplay games through Steam or Origin (Origin also sells Uplay games). I go direct to their launcher. The one feature they still lack that I want is a wish list.

 

[64K]

And considering they've extended their free game thing until the end of the year, honestly, I don't think they are seeing the user engagement they thought they had.

Wasn't the plan all along to give away free games for a year? Besides the other stores mentioned that give games away sometimes when Ubisoft was celebrating their 30th anniversary 3 years ago they were giving some games away. It gets people to sign up for accounts just for the free games and then there's at least a chance that they might buy some games at some point. If nothing else it gives a Publisher the opportunity to boast about the number of active accounts they have on their store.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Mass Effect
X360: 2.91 million (no data for Japan)
PC: 0.67 million (no data for Japan/North America)

Mass Effect 2
X360: 3.1 million (no data for Japan)
PS3: 1.46 million (no data for Japan)
PC: 0.39 million (no data for Japan/North America)

Mass Effect 3
X360: 3.04 million
PS3: 1.46 million
PC: 0.96 million (no data for Japan)
WiiU: 0.28 million (no data for Japan)

ME and ME2 PC numbers are underreported because North America is the biggest market for these games.

 

[silentbogo]

Did you spend money on the barebones Steam that started out? Or Origin? Or Uplay? They all started out pretty bad and have progressed nicely.

When would this argument die out? Steam started many years ago, when all digital distribution platforms sucked balls and no one knew whattahell they were doing.
Today is 2019. The least they could've done is use a ready-to-deploy solution from XSolla (which they already use for payment processing), the most - pull their heads out of their asses and make a functional storefront before launching it. One of my larger employers specializes on eCommerce/CRM and from what I've seen a complete project like that would take 2-3 months with two dozen people to finish and polish (that's the worst-case scenario). Epic is a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of employees. All the tools and skills are already in place.
Just think of it: launching a web-store with no shopping cart... that's pathetic.

 

[64K]

Mass Effect
X360: 2.91 million
PC: 0.67 million

Mass Effect 2
X360: 3.1 million
PS3: 1.46 million
PC: 0.39 million

Mass Effect 3
X360: 3.04 million
PS3: 1.46 million
PC: 0.96 million
WiiU: 0.28 million

I always said Mass Effect 2 sucked on PC and...well...it shows.

Origin exclusivity certainly doesn't appear to have hurt sales of Mass Effect 3.

imo BioWare started losing their way after ME1. I attribute that to EA buying them and meddling with the Development of ME2 and ME3.

When would this argument die out? Steam started many years ago, when all digital distribution platforms sucked balls and no one knew whattahell they were doing.
Today is 2019. The least they could've done is use a ready-to-deploy solution from XSolla (which they already use for payment processing), the most - pull their heads out of their asses and make a functional storefront before launching it. One of my larger employers specializes on eCommerce/CRM and from what I've seen a complete project like that would take 2-3 months with two dozen people to finish and polish (that's the worst-case scenario). Epic is a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of employees. All the tools and skills are already in place.
Just think of it: launching a web-store with no shopping cart... that's pathetic.

Hell, they didn't even have a search bar for a while. Epic really could have made a better effort when they launched their store.

 

[rtwjunkie]

When would this argument die out? Steam started many years ago, when all digital distribution platforms sucked balls and no one knew whattahell they were doing.

So just because cars have been manufactured and sold for more than a hundred years, you could open a car company completely operational and with all features and no defects?

Its not like they share info on how to do it with each other. They are competitors. So yes, its a completely valid argument, considering Origin and Uplay started in 2011 and 2012.

According to your argument, they should have been perfect at launch because COMPETITOR Steam did it years before when no digital store launchers existed.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

imo BioWare started losing their way after ME1. I attribute that to EA buying them and meddling with the Development of ME2 and ME3.

I edited because PC release of ME and ME2 are missing data for North America (the game's biggest audience). Without that data, could only speculate.

 

[silentbogo]

So just because cars have been manufactured and sold for more than a hundred years, you could open a car company completely operational and with all features and no defects?

And now we are down to analogies.... It's not car manufacturing, and if you want to go this way, it's not making a flawless car, it's more of a wooden horse cart with makeshift coal engine.

 

[rtwjunkie]

And now we are down to analogies.... It's not car manufacturing, and if you want to go this way, it's not making a flawless car, it's more of a wooden horse cart with makeshift coal engine.

Analogy or not it stands. Just because a competitor with years of experience does something fairly well, doesn’t mean that you can too. Especially so if you want to get a presence and earn some money. Otherwise you spend alot of money and very little income delaying until you perfect your game launcher/ dealership/store/etc.

 

[Deleted member 177333]

forcing us to use it is the problem...

Agreed. It's the exclusivity that's the issue. I don't think the majority of people have a problem with Epic existing, they just have a problem with Epic bribing publishers to only sell the game at their store. If they had a better platform, offered better deals or some other incentives for the customer, that would be healthy competition, but what Epic is doing, is not. CD Projekt Red set the proper example recently with CP2077 in that they will be selling it at a number of storefronts. No one would blame them for only selling it on GOG (their own store), but instead they went the pro consumer route and are selling it at Steam & Epic also which is a great move. Let people buy the game at the store they like. Giving consumers a choice is a very good thing.

 

[Kapone33]

I'm not a "dedicated Steam gamer", but I just can't touch Epic, the past 6 months has just been Sweeney digging the hole deeper and deeper, with the Mega Sale being the only highlight. Fortunately for me Outer Worlds is on the Microsoft Store and is supposed to be in the Game Pass day one, I think, and with the MCC coming to Steam, I will be able to play the games I have my eye on, though at some point I need to create a GOG account so I can pre-order Cyperpunk 2077.

I can't believe you would pick the MS store over Epic to disdain. As a platform it is inert, there is nothing that the platform does to make the experience any different than Steam, GOG, Uplay or the 2 objectively worst services The MS Store and Origin in terms of how games are bought and installed by the end user. The biggest thing for me for these is that each has their pros and cons to varying degrees. As an example I bought Assassin's Creed Odyssey ( Well RX 570) and was given every other Assassin's creed game with the exception of Origins by Uplay. Epic gives you free games every couple weeks (they are not garbage games either). The reason why I say the MS store and Origin are worse is because of the stupid hardware restrictions on Origin and just the way the MS store functions in the background. Regardless the best platform for buying games is Humble Monthly anyway.

 

[r9]

They are all full of shit.
If you are developer today and can't make money with all there platforms around, where I'm sure there are more devices than people than you might want to consider another profession.
Regardless of all the bitching and moaning I'm sure it's way cheaper to distribute online vs DVD/Blu-ray.

 

[Assimilator]

Agreed. It's the exclusivity that's the issue. I don't think the majority of people have a problem with Epic existing, they just have a problem with Epic bribing publishers to only sell the game at their store. If they had a better platform, offered better deals or some other incentives for the customer, that would be healthy competition, but what Epic is doing, is not. CD Projekt Red set the proper example recently with CP2077 in that they will be selling it at a number of storefronts. No one would blame them for only selling it on GOG (their own store), but instead they went the pro consumer route and are selling it at Steam & Epic also which is a great move. Let people buy the game at the store they like. Giving consumers a choice is a very good thing.

And as I noted in my above post, look at how well that hasn't worked out for GOG.

 

[NRANM]

Epic is forcing no one to do anything. Sure, if one wants to play one of their exclusive games, one would indeed need to use their launcher. However, if that is considered forcing users, then how is Steam also not forcing users? There are a ton of games available only on Steam. If I want to play XCOM 2, I can only do it via Steam. Am I not being forced to use Valve's launcher in this case?

I mean, if we are going to use the forcing example and logic, let's apply them consistently, shall we.

I realize that users should look out for their own self interest first, that is a given, but don't we, as gamers, want developers who create good games to continue creating them? The influx of money from Epic can be very helpful to non-AAA developers who do not have giant publishers behind them. It is also the developer/publisher's choice whether a deal between them and Epic would be made. If Epic offers an exclusivity deal to a developer/publisher, that developer/publisher can decline. They aren't forced either. But who would decline such an offer? I know, if I were a single indie game developer or had a small company for indie games, I would accept such a deal if it would be better for me or my company in the long run.

 

[Deleted member 177333]

And as I noted in my above post, look at how well that hasn't worked out for GOG.

They tried locking Thronebreaker down to GOG and within a week or two opened it up to Steam because it wasn't selling well. Again, choice is good - people are going to buy CP2077 at a number of storefronts and CDPR will make a boatload of cash because of it.

I've never been a fan of every publisher having their own individual store. I understand their line of thinking behind it, but it's just not a good idea to lock things down exclusively because many folks get used to a storefront they like and they want their collection on that store, which I think is reasonable. It's good to give consumers choice - they will appreciate you for it and be more willing to buy your product.

 

[oxidized]

Hopefully in a couple of years he ends up like bleszinski and epic like boss key productions. Two of the most useless cancerous individuals in the last 15 years in videogame industry

 

[rtwjunkie]

And as I noted in my above post, look at how well that hasn't worked out for GOG.

It worked out well on TW3. GOG is where they sold the most copies. More than on Steam and more than the consoles.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the same result with Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[oxidized]

It worked out well on TW3. GOG is where they sold the most copies. More than on Steam and more than the consoles.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the same result with Cyberpunk 2077.

There's a pretty big difference between GOG and EGS.

 

[rtwjunkie]

There's a pretty big difference between GOG and EGS.

I was responding to Assimilator who basically said GOG is doing crappy, and selling their own games isn’t working out so well.

 

[oxidized]

I was responding to Assimilator who basically said GOG is doing crappy.

Not true, but then again, i wouldn't expect EGS to follow GOG footsteps, they're 2 completely different game platforms.