EU Changes VAT Rules for Imported Products; Everything to be Taxed Independent of Value

[silentbogo]

This is purely to bring manufacturing back and not fully rely on China doing it for cheap. Not going to pretend that the average Joe will dislike it, but average Joe does not think longterm, which is where this should help.

Dream on. The reason EU decided to strengthen VAT enforcement, is because it's a big stream of tax revenue, not because it will miraculously increase internal manufacturing.
If anything, they'll have more motivation to increase imports, cause people will complain for a bit, but keep buying cheaper alternative and pay taxes.

I'd suggest you buying your stuff from China and stuff from EU. Tell me which ones blows up faster and second where do you go to claim warranty?

Looks like someone doesn't know where most of EU consumer goods are made at.
Most of these small packages are small, cheap consumer goods. I can tell you right now, that a name-branded Chinese electronics is two classes above rebranded EU electroncis. Textile can be debateable, but only in regions that previously had decent manufacturing. In most cases it's the same scheme - order from Chinese, Taiwanese, Indian, or Turkish factory, customize packaging and labels, import at atificially reduced value and pay VAT, throw a "made in [insert your country here]" label along with 100% upmark and profit. Everything depends on how much that EU/US company values quality over margin. That's how we end up with cheapified rebranded Clevo laptops that break in half around the time your warranty expires, that's how we end up with "European" phones pre-loaded with chinese adware and spyware, that's how we get IoT devices with 10y.o. unpatched vulnerabilities etc.etc.etc. The most you can get nowadays is "assembled in [whatever]", but that's hardly an indicator of quality.

Just a little example: back in a day I used to order running shoes every 2 years or so. One pair of Nikes is already past its 8th birthday and only needs a trip to shoemaker's workshop for heel padding replacement. Nowadays a typical pair of Nikes or NewBalances costs the same if not more( $60+ incl VAT for the cheapest pair in my area) but at least in my case lasts no more than 3-4 months.... everything falls apart except soles (and I no longer run or go to the gym). So, now I've switched to $15 "registered in Ukraine"(e.g. made in China) brand 'cause at least I have an expectation of it to last that much for the price (though it's already outlasting old shitty NB).
Warranty is a touchy topic, but the majority of reputable sellers on Aliexpress will honor warranty if you are willing to pay shipping to China (which in most countries is only viable for more expensive stuff).

 

[Chomiq]

You can't really only blame shady sellers/customers for this. The standard policy for our customs was this - if it's under €150 you won't get charged anything, no customs fee but they also won't charge you VAT (probably because they think it's not worth it). If it is over €150 you'll get charged full VAT and customs fee.
If you used anything like UPS, FEDEX or DHL you were screwed anyway since they'd charge you handling fee AND would also "handle" the customs for you. Which means they'd charge you VAT for the package, even if it was under €150 simply because that's the law, right? That's why sometimes opting for USPS was a better option, although it would take a lot longer to deliver.
You could still get lucky if the fee listed on the invoice was in currency other than USD or EUR (given you used regular postage and not a courier company). Two packages that I got from Japan and had fees listed in JPY passed customs without any fee's despite value being well above €150 - they didn't even open them to verify the content.
Now my $80 package (that's including $22 for shipping) is sitting at USPS' Miami facility for over a month (thanks COVID) and by the time it arrives I'll probably get charged VAT for it on arrival.

 

[Wirko]

VAT is bad because it is not a progressive tax - the rich pay the same VAT% as the poor. i would've expected the EU to have progressive economics as opposed to regressive, "trickle-down" economics, which don't work and create monopolies. i guess socialism is alive and well in the EU (i don't live in EU and not in US)

How could VAT be progressive? Should the rate be based on how much you buy monthly? Should very rich people be (even more) discouraged from spending and rather hoard (even more)?

In fact, it is progressive, as food is taxed at a reduced rate, and often pharmaceuticals and books are, too. As far as I can check, it isn't much different in the US, but sales tax rates are much lower there.
Edit: There's at least one valid argument against reduced rates: that's how food and drug industry gets subsidised, not only the consumers.

Dream on. The reason EU decided to strengthen VAT enforcement, is because it's a big stream of tax revenue, not because it will miraculously increase internal manufacturing.

I can't argue with that, but why should only low-value imports from China, of all things, be left untaxed?
Edit: and even if those low-value imports accumulate to, say, a couple hundred €€€ every month?

(Not to mention that China subsidises shipping to other parts of the world, but miraculously, not from the other parts of the world to them.)

Just a little example: back in a day I used to order running shoes every 2 years or so. One pair of Nikes is already past its 8th birthday and only needs a trip to shoemaker's workshop for heel padding replacement. Nowadays a typical pair of Nikes or NewBalances costs the same if not more( $60+ incl VAT for the cheapest pair in my area) but at least in my case lasts no more than 3-4 months.... everything falls apart except soles (and I no longer run or go to the gym). So, now I've switched to $15 "registered in Ukraine"(e.g. made in China) brand 'cause at least I have an expectation of it to last that much for the price (though it's already outlasting old shitty NB).
Warranty is a touchy topic, but the majority of reputable sellers on Aliexpress will honor warranty if you are willing to pay shipping to China (which in most countries is only viable for more expensive stuff).

I only have my anecdotal evidence, here it is:
2005: Asics GT 2100 running shoes, 115 EUR, made in China, good quality
2007: Asics GT 2120 running shoes, 125 EUR, made in China, good quality
2009: Asics GT 2140 running shoes, made in China, good quality
2010: Salomon hiking shoes, 80 EUR, made in Vietnam, fell apart soon (everything)
2012: Asics GT 2170 running shoes, 130 EUR, made in Vietnam, fell apart soon (mesh and heel padding)
Guess what I looked for when buying my next sports shoes.

 

[Greenslade]

At the end of the day someone has to keep those dodgy eurocrats in Brussels drowning in champagne and oysters.

I take it you are a leaver like me .You took the words out of my mouth.I am glad we are out.It is time those Remoaners moved on.

 

[silentbogo]

(Not to mention that China subsidises shipping to other parts of the world, but miraculously, not from the other parts of the world to them.)

Export is a big part of economics and contributes a lot to economic growth. Even then, these subsidies are already stretched to the limit and because of that quite recently they've introduced things like "combined shipping" : e.g. if you have several parcels from different sellers going through the same delivery service, they get combined into one box before going to Chinese customs. Caused quite a headache last week, since that was the first time I had to deal with customs under new laws and regulations. We spent several hours with local customs broker (rep. from parcel company), waited few days for approval, on the other end customs had to perform at least 1 hour of work detailing every item and comparing prices in shipping manifest, customs database, my receipts etc, then carefully pack everything back, and all of that crap for a measly ₴220 (equiv. €6.82) of additional tax money. Tell me how that makes any economical sense?... The only reason VAT isn't as effective as it should've been, is simply corruption and lack of enforcement on the highest level. We still have cargo ships and trucks in EU and CIS that move around, let's say, your ASICS valued at $2/ea in shipping manifest, or hi-end consumer electronics shipped as recycling material. Technically it's not even contraband, but it's worse than contraband due to the simple fact that these goods can be resold legally afterwards. That's the biggest multi-billion euro problem, not some odd couple millions of average Joes and Janes that skimped on few euros worth of VAT on Chinese new year.

Regarding second part: when you send something back - you are paying your local parcel service - that's who you should complain to regarding costs. Govt.-owned postal services are generally cheaper(in some cases on-par with China Post). For example a simple envelope or small documents package to Zone2 (NA, China, Mongolia) through Ukrposhta costs around $7-8. Same package through third-party will run as high as $50. I'm not even gonna mention FedEx, DHL and UPS, cause these guys have been so far up their asses for the past decade(at least regarding international deliveries), that you can't even make fun of their prices and quality of service.

 

[Legacy-ZA]

 

[Turmania]

Well, I do not like taxes, but come on people stop buying from the piece of land, that is a threat to humanity and you and your children! pay a little bit more, have a piece of mind !

 

[kayjay010101]

Good to know! I see that in Norway, the future is now.
Many sellers on AliExpress ship from multiple warehouses and you have a choice to have stuff delivered from China or EU. Can I expect to pay for customs processing if I order from China, and not pay if I order from EU?

You (if you were in Norway) won't have to pay customs processing at all since it's all handled by AliExpress through the VOEC-program. What you see in the checkout is all you need to pay.
EU or China is irrelevant for the final price. They'll both cost the same if the product+shipping costs the same.

 

[INSTG8R]

And Amazon is ready to open bottles of Champagne!

Nah I’m in Norway and 80% of time I buy something Amazon their the tax+shipping costs the same or more than what I’m buying. I can’t even make use of Prime..Norway is in the EEA and many EU countries won’t even ship to me or else a very high tariff

 

[Greenslade]

Well, I do not like taxes, but come on people stop buying from the piece of land, that is a threat to humanity and you and your children! pay a little bit more, have a piece of mind !

Who does, and if your someone like Bezos he pays next to nothing.Anyone signed the petition to keep him in space.?

You (if you were in Norway) won't have to pay customs processing at all since it's all handled by AliExpress through the VOEC-program. What you see in the checkout is all you need to pay.
EU or China is irrelevant for the final price. They'll both cost the same if the product+shipping costs the same.

Talking about Ali Express i bought a Thunderbolt m2 case.I had to pay 25 pound customs charge.I understand that it should have had it was a gift on it as to not have to pay customs charges.I have been told i was unlucky to have been charged the custom charge.As it is the Thunderbolt m2 case is a good case and the full 40gb.It was a no name brand someone else on another forum said it was good so i got it.It cost 60 pounds a couple of years ago.

 

[Greenslade]

Export is a big part of economics and contributes a lot to economic growth. Even then, these subsidies are already stretched to the limit and because of that quite recently they've introduced things like "combined shipping" : e.g. if you have several parcels from different sellers going through the same delivery service, they get combined into one box before going to Chinese customs. Caused quite a headache last week, since that was the first time I had to deal with customs under new laws and regulations. We spent several hours with local customs broker (rep. from parcel company), waited few days for approval, on the other end customs had to perform at least 1 hour of work detailing every item and comparing prices in shipping manifest, customs database, my receipts etc, then carefully pack everything back, and all of that crap for a measly ₴220 (equiv. €6.82) of additional tax money. Tell me how that makes any economical sense?... The only reason VAT isn't as effective as it should've been, is simply corruption and lack of enforcement on the highest level. We still have cargo ships and trucks in EU and CIS that move around, let's say, your ASICS valued at $2/ea in shipping manifest, or hi-end consumer electronics shipped as recycling material. Technically it's not even contraband, but it's worse than contraband due to the simple fact that these goods can be resold legally afterwards. That's the biggest multi-billion euro problem, not some odd couple millions of average Joes and Janes that skimped on few euros worth of VAT on Chinese new year.

Regarding second part: when you send something back - you are paying your local parcel service - that's who you should complain to regarding costs. Govt.-owned postal services are generally cheaper(in some cases on-par with China Post). For example a simple envelope or small documents package to Zone2 (NA, China, Mongolia) through Ukrposhta costs around $7-8. Same package through third-party will run as high as $50. I'm not even gonna mention FedEx, DHL and UPS, cause these guys have been so far up their asses for the past decade(at least regarding international deliveries), that you can't even make fun of their prices and quality of service.

Hi i don,t know why it is but my post on *Bank Transfer ebay uk to Germany*has been removed from the site?And all the times i posted on that forum.?

 

[dorsetknob]

Hi i don,t know why it is but my post on *Bank Transfer ebay uk to Germany*has been removed from the site?And all the times i posted on that forum.?

was moved by mod to Lounge area

 

[Greenslade]

was moved by mod to Lounge area

What is lounge area?

 

[dorsetknob]

This new forum called "The Lounge" is a community asset where members can go to discuss non tech related stuff.

In order to read/post in the Lounge a member must have been:

• registered for at least 3 months
• AND
• have a post count of at least 50 posts (i.e. be an active member of our community).

There will be no post count from participating in this forum.

Unlike the main forums, new posts will not show up in the new posts function, instead members will need to check the forum manually, but they will receive mentions and notifications for subscribed and participated threads

 

[Greenslade]

Ok thanks for that.

 

[Raven Rampkin]

Until now (in Greece)
0 - 22 euros >>>>free
22 - 150 >>>> VAT plus custom expenses
150 and up >>>>> VAT plus custom expenses plus duties

From July 1st
0 - 150 euros >>>> ONLY VAT
150 and up >>>> VAT plus custom expenses

I think our national service overrode that.