Excess PSU power help

[prasoooon]

hey,
Today I ordered for new cabinet NZXT Source 530 full tower and going to buy new PSU for my gaming rig.
I have Iball marathon 550w peak, which is not good I know that's why I have to replace it with something better, but don't know whether to go for 650w or 750w psu.
So, my question is-
Is this okay to install 750w psu even if my rig required 550w power, is this excess 200w will do some damage or generate more electricty bill??
If not,
Then which one psu to buy with 80+ bronze certified??
There one in my mind- https://www.flipkart.com/circle-cg-750w-modular-80-plus-bronze-750-watts-psu/p/itmejzqattzcsjjz another link http://www.circlect.com/gaming-accessories/raw-power/750-watt-m80plus.html
Or I should look for 650w of same brand like http://www.circlect.com/gaming-accessories/raw-power/650-watt-m80plus.html
I chose this brand bcoz its cheap with 80+ bronze certified also, so I think quality wise it is also good.
Please suggest me.

 

[jboydgolfer]

I would suggest a "good brand" choose from this list

not all good brands, but it should suffice.

• EVGA
• Corsair
  
• SeaSonic
• Cooler Master
  
• Antec
  
• NZXT
• XFX
  
• Thermaltake
  
• be quiet!
• Rosewill

good luck, dont overthink this, just take the info i just gave, and think.

 

[EarthDog]

If your system specs are accurate, you don't need more than a QUALITY 550W psu. This will have any single gpu and allow overclocking guide both cpu and gpu with plenty of headroom.

I have no idea about that "circle" brand psu as I have never seen it tested.

Efficiency has little to do with the quality of the psu.

As far as the extra power, it doesn't work that way. The psu will only use what it needs.

Edit: some of those brands up there have scary psus... yikes...if you want to be brand blind, stick with seasonic, evga supernova g2/p2/b2, corsair...

 

[Bill_Bright]

Is this okay to install 750w psu even if my rig required 550w power, is this excess 200w will do some damage or generate more electricty bill??

The "damage" buying too big a PSU might cause is only to your budget. As EarthDog noted, the PSU will use only what it needs. If all the connected devices (motherboard, drives, CPU, graphics card, RAM, drives, fans, etc.) demand 300 watts, your PSU will deliver 300W regardless if the PSU is a 500W supply or a 1000W supply. And the PSU will only draw from the wall, 300W plus another ~15W per 100 (assuming 85% efficiency) for 345W total, again regardless if a 500W supply or 1000W supply.

That CircleCT supply has all the right numbers, but I have never heard of that brand either. They seem like a fairly new brand and I don't believe they are sold on this side of the big pond. That does not mean there is anything wrong with it, but we like to go with brands we know. You should not try to cut corners in the budget with a cheap power supply. Everything inside your computer depends on good, clean stable power. I like to say you wouldn't buy a brand new Porsche then fill it up with generic/off-brand fuel at the corner Tobacco and Bait Hut. Well you might but a car engine can miss a beat and keep on running. High-speed digital electronics can't. It will come crashing down.

I've been using EVGA Supernova PSUs in our recent builds (including a G2 550W in this system now) and love them. It is so quiet I have to put my ear up to the exhaust vent to tell if running - and even then, I can only tell (besides the fact the computer is on) by "feeling" the air blowing on my ear. I also like Seasonic, the "upper" tier Corsairs (not their budget models), "upper" tier Antecs, and surprisingly, many of the upper tier Rosewills are excellent. I say surprisingly because in their early years, Rosewill was not known for quality anything. I prefer "Gold" certified over Bronze too - but certainly Bronze is better than no certification.

 

[Recon-UK]

Having a PSU that's overkill can be great because a lot of them are more efficient at around half load.

 

[peche]

@prasoooon which are your options there? All you need its a quite great 550W 80+ Certified PSU!

Seasonic its the 1st option and manufacturer around the world, they make PSU's for EVGA, XFX and plenty moar, also another great option is Enermax they make their own PSU's as Seasonic... i love Thermaltake and have gotten several models without any problem so far


Regards,

 

[Bill_Bright]

Having a PSU that's overkill can be great because a lot of them are more efficient at around half load.

True. Kind of sort of. Not really!

Typical basic, generic power supplies have a "bell shaped" efficiency curve that normally peaks at just one, maybe two load values. As you move off that peak, the efficiency drops significantly. These supplies typically peak at a lousy 70% efficiency. So with a 300W load, at best, the PSU will pull 390W from the wall - the extra 90W being wasted in the form of heat.

These basic supplies are just fine for electronic devices that present a constant load all the time. Designers just pick a supply that has a peak efficiency at that constant load value. But computers place a wide range of loads on their PSUs, from near zero load all the way up to 100% loads, and these loads are constantly varying - often many times per second.

The whole point of 80 PLUS certifications is to have a PSU that has a relatively high (at least 80%) and most importantly, a "flat" efficiency curve from 10 or 20% load all the way up to 100% load. So the kind of advantage you might see running at 50% is typically only 2, or at most 3 percentage points over a 20% load if using an overkill supply. So using that 300W load example above, we are only talking about an extra 6 to 9W at most. And to be realistic, most computers sit near idle most of the time and don't draw anywhere near 300W the majority of the time they are up and running.

If I only needed a 500W supply to ensure I had plenty of power with some reserve, I sure would not get a 1000W as that is just a waste of money. But if the price was right, I would not hesitate getting a 650W or even a little bigger. If nothing else, that would ensure I still had plenty of power if I decided to upgrade my graphics (or add a second graphics card) 2 or 3 years down the road.

 

[R-T-B]

Super Flower is also a fairly good option if you are in europe or asia... evga uses them extensively.

 

[prasoooon]

Should I buy it http://www.amazon.in/SEASONIC-S12II...qid=1475753854&sr=8-1&keywords=seasonic+s12ii
But it is 620w and you guys saying I only need 550w, so let me add some further points to my post-
Soon I will have or something like this(in about 6-8 months)-
I5 6600k or I76700k
Gtx 1070
SSD
Any good Z170 mobo
16 gb ddr4 at 3000mhz
So, do I still need 550w PSU for above specs.
I want to buy PSU that support both Specs(current n future).
I m big confused between 550w or 620/650w but crystal cleared now to buy prestigious brands psu with 80+ bronze certified(thanx to u guys).
So, please suggest me after keeping the "future specs" in mind.

Thanx

 

[R-T-B]

That bronze Seasonic (provided it's not used or something) should be a solid unit for both current and most if not all future single gpu builds.

 

[slozomby]

620w is in the ballpark. so its fine.

both of the procs you listed use slightly less power than your current i5-2500k
the 1070 will use less power than your 270x
adding an ssd is a minimal power draw ( a few watts)

and the motherboard/ram should be fairly close what you're currently using.

unless you plan on adding a ton of spinning disks or a second gpu there's no problem with the 620W for your planned upgrades.

 

[prasoooon]

620w is in the ballpark. so its fine.

both of the procs you listed use slightly less power than your current i5-2500k
the 1070 will use less power than your 270x
adding an ssd is a minimal power draw ( a few watts)

and the motherboard/ram should be fairly close what you're currently using.

unless you plan on adding a ton of spinning disks or a second gpu there's no problem with the 620W for your planned upgrades.

Okay, now I know what to do but I can see that there is 2 ver of seasonic 620w, S12ii and M12ii at price diff. of around 1.3k here.
I learned the diff. bet. 2 of them. M12 is fully modular with separate cables, so does it count? do I really need to that feature of managing cable of "don't required" thing.
I mean, in nzxt source 530 cable management is done at back side i.e hidden, so is truly needed to buy that m12 ver.
Cables which I don't want will be hidden at back, so there should be no problem for me I think. Still can manage to look clean cable free cabinet like.

 

[slozomby]

as long as you tie up the excess cabling its not really a big deal.

 

[Vayra86]

Okay, now I know what to do but I can see that there is 2 ver of seasonic 620w, S12ii and M12ii at price diff. of around 1.3k here.
I learned the diff. bet. 2 of them. M12 is fully modular with separate cables, so does it count? do I really need to that feature of managing cable of "don't required" thing.
I mean, in nzxt source 530 cable management is done at back side i.e hidden, so is truly needed to buy that m12 ver.
Cables which I don't want will be hidden at back, so there should be no problem for me I think. Still can manage to look clean cable free cabinet like.

There are several advantages to having an 'overkill' PSU wattage. If the price is equal, or close to equal, always go for the higher wattage of the same version of a PSU. Note, this applies ONLY to 80 plus PSUs because they can be run across a wide range of % load and still be efficient.

- Noise. PSU's will generate more noise at higher power draw. Staying in the lower regions of power draw will have a noticeable effect
- Future proofing. If you ever go dual GPU, for example. However in general, PC parts get more and more power efficient.
- Longevity. A PSU that is not pushing all buttons all the time will last longer. Capacitors degrade ever so slightly over time, so a PSU that is close to 100% load most of the time, will show this degradation earlier in its lifespan due to not delivering rated wattage, or loses in how 'clean' the power is when age sets in.

As far as modular PSUs go, yes it is useful to have modular cabling. When cables die, it makes them easier to replace, and it can reduce the clutter in your case, improving airflow and temperatures. If you buy your PSU for use in several upgrades and systems (for the long run), this is worth considering.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Frankly, I don't like modular power supplies but it is getting harder and harder to avoid them.

I don't believe the advantages of modular supplies justify their existence, spare cable storage requirements/inconvenience, and the substantial increase in points for potential problems.

Frankly, other than reducing (but definitely not eliminating) cable clutter, I see no advantage to modular supplies. I don't even see them as convenient. Modular cables:

1. Do NOT increase performance, efficiency, or regulation.
2. They add to the complexity of the design by increasing the number of components [that may fail].
3. They may result in the wrong cable being connected.
4. Even the best connectors in any circuit (vs hardwired direct) add some resistance, are subject wear and tear and a loose "mechanical" connection (essential for minimal resistance in the "electrical" connection) over time. I note with each modular cable, there are 3 connectors (the PSU connector, the PSU side of the cable, and the device connector) vs just 1 connector with wired.
5. Unused PSU modular connectors (unless covered with dust caps - not typically supplied ) are exposed to dust and dirt being pulled in by the PSU fan.
6. Unused cables (if not carefully stored) may be exposed to dust and physical damage.
7. Unused cables may get lost, then impossible to replace if too many years passed.
8. This is a big one - There is no industry standard for modular cables so you cannot mix and match cables from different makers. This is potentially a big problem if you have multiple computers you are responsible for. You cannot even be sure cables for different supplies from the same maker are interchangeable due to different OEMs. This means if you have multiple modular supplies, you must carefully store your unused cables for each supply individually - for years!!!

The ONLY advantages I see to modular supplies are:

1. They present a tidier appearance (but I tend to pay attention to my monitors, not case interior).
2. The smaller "rat's nest" of cables will collect less dust.
3. When used in SFF cases.

Choosing a case that provides good cable management, along with careful routing, stuffing, and tying back of cables can still present a tidy professional appearance without impacting desired air flow through the case too.

Note I am not saying modular PSUs are inferior in quality or performance. I am saying they are not superior, add significant extra, long-term cable storage concerns, and add many potential points of failure.

 

[peche]

Frankly, I don't like modular power supplies but it is getting harder and harder to avoid them.

I don't believe the advantages of modular supplies justify their existence, spare cable storage requirements/inconvenience, and the substantial increase in points for potential problems.

they should include caps for the ports / power source that your arent using, to avoid dust coming there...

This is a big one - There is no industry standard for modular cables so you cannot mix and match cables from different makers. This is potentially a big problem if you have multiple computers you are responsible for. You cannot even be sure cables for different supplies from the same maker are interchangeable due to different OEMs. This means if you have multiple modular supplies, you must carefully store your unused cables for each supply individually - for years!!!

+1 here....

 

[Recon-UK]

Frankly, I don't like modular power supplies but it is getting harder and harder to avoid them.

I don't believe the advantages of modular supplies justify their existence, spare cable storage requirements/inconvenience, and the substantial increase in points for potential problems.

Frankly, other than reducing (but definitely not eliminating) cable clutter, I see no advantage to modular supplies. I don't even see them as convenient. Modular cables:

1. Do NOT increase performance, efficiency, or regulation.
2. They add to the complexity of the design by increasing the number of components [that may fail].
3. They may result in the wrong cable being connected.
4. Even the best connectors in any circuit (vs hardwired direct) add some resistance, are subject wear and tear and a loose "mechanical" connection (essential for minimal resistance in the "electrical" connection) over time. I note with each modular cable, there are 3 connectors (the PSU connector, the PSU side of the cable, and the device connector) vs just 1 connector with wired.
5. Unused PSU modular connectors (unless covered with dust caps - not typically supplied ) are exposed to dust and dirt being pulled in by the PSU fan.
6. Unused cables (if not carefully stored) may be exposed to dust and physical damage.
7. Unused cables may get lost, then impossible to replace if too many years passed.
8. This is a big one - There is no industry standard for modular cables so you cannot mix and match cables from different makers. This is potentially a big problem if you have multiple computers you are responsible for. You cannot even be sure cables for different supplies from the same maker are interchangeable due to different OEMs. This means if you have multiple modular supplies, you must carefully store your unused cables for each supply individually - for years!!!

The ONLY advantages I see to modular supplies are:

1. They present a tidier appearance (but I tend to pay attention to my monitors, not case interior).
2. The smaller "rat's nest" of cables will collect less dust.
3. When used in SFF cases.

Choosing a case that provides good cable management, along with careful routing, stuffing, and tying back of cables can still present a tidy professional appearance without impacting desired air flow through the case too.

Note I am not saying modular PSUs are inferior in quality or performance. I am saying they are not superior, add significant extra, long-term cable storage concerns, and add many potential points of failure.

My 1KW from SS is full modular and i have never had a problem in the almost 5 years i have used it.

I also clean it out... which i don't recommend if you are not careful and know nothing about electronics.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I have a little repair business and I find it ironic how often a computer will come in, and there in the bottom of the case interior, we will find a bundle of spare cables because the owner did not want to misplace them.

A friend who is the IT tech for a company is responsible for 50+ computers that were acquired in spurts over the last few years as the company expanded - meaning there are many different model supplies. He hates modular supplies because of the storage requirements for all those cables.

I have 6 computers here in the house, 4 with modular supplies and I have to dedicate a storage bin just for the extra cables. Sadly, it seems PSU makers today are only making wired supplies for their budget models and the big factory makers.

My 1KW from SS is full modular and i have never had a problem in the almost 5 years i have used it.

As I said, I am not saying they are inferior. It is good you have not had problems with yours. But that is one. One does not mean all will be trouble free.

What if you had 20 computers and most had different supplies and you had to separately store the cables for each? I said modulars add many "potential" points of failure. "Potential" does not mean they "will" happen. But they sure could.

FTR, mine have been trouble free too. But I am not a "normal" user. I've put together 100s of computers. I know how to make sure I don't mix ATX and PCIe power cables (though on many supplies, they are almost identical and can be inserted in the wrong socket). I am disciplined at carefully aligning a plug before inserting in a socket. Many new builders/upgraders don't have that experience.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

I tend to pay attention to my monitors, not case interior

Oh, is that how you're supposed to use a computer?

 

[cadaveca]

What if you had 20 computers and most had different supplies and you had to separately store the cables for each? I said modulars add many "potential" points of failure. "Potential" does not mean they "will" happen. But they sure could.

That's being a over-concerned in my books. People know that cell phones cause bad radiation, yet nearly everyone has one (but not me).

Anyway, what do you do with the boxes for said PCs or their parts? That's where the cables get stored! Also, most modular power supplies comes with nice little bags to hold the cables in, too. You can also strip the wires and recycle the copper!

 

[Bill_Bright]

Oh, is that how you're supposed to use a computer?

With all the attention many put on their case interiors, I often wonder. No doubt a clean and tidy case interior with proper cable management presents a professional appearance conducive to the most efficient air flow for cooling. But fancy lighting, for example, does nothing for performance, adds some heat, consumes some power, and does nothing for performance (worth repeating).

That's being a over-concerned in my books.

Over-concerned??? Its a very realistic scenario. Even if 20 is extreme, I know many "normal" households with multiple computers. Often one (maybe two) for the parents, and one or more for the kids.

My store room is already full of old parts (and I emptied it 2 years ago by taking everything to our local electronics recycling center). When you have many computers, case boxes take up way too much room. My case boxes get broken down and laid flat. All other component boxes (for PSUs, motherboards, graphics boards, etc.) are saved for a little while, then get tossed. Yes, the nicer modular PSUs come with nice bags for the cables, but they still must be stored somewhere, and the cables not allowed to mingle with other cables. If you only have one or two computers to deal with, this may not be a hassle.

I note it is already a PITA to store extra case parts. I miss my old Antec case that had little slots in the bottom of the case to store the unused drive rails.

 

[cadaveca]

Over-concerned??? Its a very realistic scenario. Even if 20 is extreme, I know many "normal" households with multiple computers. Often one (maybe two) for the parents, and one or more for the kids.

My store room is already full of old parts (and I emptied it 2 years ago by taking everything to our local electronics recycling center). When you have many computers, case boxes take up way too much room. My case boxes get broken down and laid flat. All other component boxes (for PSUs, motherboards, graphics boards, etc.) are saved for a little while, then get tossed. Yes, the nicer modular PSUs come with nice bags for the cables, but they still must be stored somewhere, and the cables not allowed to mingle with other cables. If you only have one or two computers to deal with, this may not be a hassle.

Sure. I have far more boxes than pretty much anyone, for sure (because of the review samples). There are 4 PCs in my livingroom alone.

But to bring it back on topic, every single one of those PCs features PSU that is at least 25% "over-powered" for the draw it is under at maximum system load. This is to account for the aging of capacitors over time. Most of the PCs in my house are using non-modular power supplies; Thermaltake Smart Standard 750W, because it is decently spec'd. and affordable.

 

[Recon-UK]

I'm not clinical with things but being tidy with things is a personal preference, to some it is hard wired to be over tidy and clean with things, i know this as my foster mother had OCD with cleaning and actually managed to over come the issue... she's quite normal now.

I like my PC to be tidy it's not a looks thing, my main PC resides in my bedroom lol and the other machines are elsewhere and down stairs.
My bedroom is a good place for me to get some peace and to play a couple of games or mong out on these forums.

Does it looks like i went overboard?

These are images of PC's i have built.

Spoiler

This one below is my current X58 build.

Whilst i barely look inside my PC, if it's tidy it is far easier to navigate any issues if it comes to it, plus i need to clean them every now and then too.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'm not clinical with things but being tidy with things is a personal preference

It is a personal preference, but it is also a technically sound choice. A clean case interior free of blankets of heat trapping dust, and good (tidy) cable management minimizing restrictions on air flow are good for your electronics in terms of aging and stable operation.

 

[OneMoar]

electricity doesn't work like that, any given appliance will only draw or use what it needs you can't 'force` current down a wire like pressurizing a water line

but generally its better to have more psu capacity then you need because for the most part the most psu's reach `better than optimal` effienecy at less then there full rated load

e.g a 80+ bronze rated 600W psu thats only under ~400W of load might reach 80+ silver levels of efficiency