Extending wifi from a lousy router

[Octopuss]

I don't deal with networking very often and never was very educated in this field to begin with, and on top of that I seem to have acute lack of caffeine in the brain cells, so I feel especially stupid today and couldn't figure this out.

Is there any way to extend the range of crappy wifi from a router? I know I could do this easily with say two Ruckus APs that have this feature built into the software, but these APs are pretty expensive and I'm thinking on a budget here, so I'd like to do this with one additional device only - if it's possible at all, which thinking about it more I have doubts about.

 

[Bill_Bright]

You really told us nothing to go on.

Range is impacted by many things.

If the antennas are movable, move them. If vertical, move to horizontal or 45°. If not movable or internal, turn the whole router 90°.

Elevate the router or antennas.

Move the router to a more central location. Minimize the number of barriers (walls, floors, ceilings) between router and distant end. Consider contents of those barriers (metal pipes and wires).

Ensure there are no large metal objects (refrigerators, ovens, metal file cabinets) near the router, near the distant end, or anywhere in between.

Ensure there are no other electronic devices (TVs, microwave ovens, radios) near the router or distant end.

Elevate the device (or its antennas) on the distant end.

Replace the wifi adaptor on the distant end device.

If wifi environment is crowded (you live in or near a large apartment complex with lots of wifi networks) consider changing channels.

If using 5GHz band, stop and go to 2.4GHz. The 5GHz band should only be used for very short distances.

 

[LabRat 891]

Probably no good reason to hang onto the crappy router, but...

If I were in your position, I'd connect either a decent WiFi AP or most-any WiFi router(purposed only to be an AP, no DHCP), via Ethernet.
Then, disable WiFi on the existing unit.

Typically, just 'dedicating' a consumer WiFi Router to *either* being a WiFi AP *or* a DHCP server+switch (wired router), will increase performance.

"WiFi repeaters" are ofc an option, but may not be the solution you're actually looking for.

 

[Octopuss]

There's not much more to say other than the router itself is not going to cut it.
I need to extend wifi signal in the other end of a flat because it goes through two concrete walls and the connection is dropping, and when it works, it's like 8Mb/s instead of 80+. Relocating the router is not possible, and it's some old piece of shit anyway (and it's owned by the ISP so it can't be touched anywya).

Oh and I'll have to use those ethernet over power devices too because there's no way to drag a new cable around. I just need to figure out a way to add an AP to the flat that will be the same wifi as on the router - if that's possible.

"WiFi repeaters" are ofc an option, but may not be the solution you're actually looking for.

That might just be what I'm looking for but I'm not sure how exactly these work.

 

[Bill_Bright]

and it's owned by the ISP so it can't be touched anywya).

Don't know about the consumer protection laws in your country but in the US and many other places, you are allowed to purchase your own devices and connect them to your ISPs network. This often will let you avoid paying 4 or 5 times the value of the device in rental fees over time but also lets you buy a better device. And perhaps more importantly, it keeps your ISP from snooping around through backdoor access.

I always recommend buying your own. And I recommend separate wireless router and modem instead of a "residential gateway" (integrated wireless router and modem).

For sure, 2 concrete walls are not helping your situation. You may have to string Ethernet instead - if possible.

 

[LabRat 891]

That might just be what I'm looking for but I'm not sure how exactly these work.

At least the few consumer 'simple' units I've set up for people, you merely configure them to connect to your existing network, and they re-broadcast it (ideally, on another channel)

What’s the difference between a Wi-Fi extender, Wi-Fi repeater and Wi-Fi booster? - Home Network Community

You may see devices marketed as “Wi-Fi repeater” or “Wi-Fi booster” as well. Essentially, they are the same — they all work to strengthen and increase the range of your wireless signal. However, they work in slightly different ways. Wi-Fi exte

community.tp-link.com

"mesh networking" is another related concept, that your existing router may or may not support, too.

What is Mesh WiFi? | Whole Home Mesh WiFi | TP-Link

Learn about Mesh WiFi and how it’s the ultimate WiFi solution. Our Mesh WiFi Systems are built to eliminate dead zones and provide uninterrupted WiFi in your home.

www.tp-link.com

 

[1freedude]

Do you have coax in your dwelling? I am a proponent of MoCA. It is a type of modem that has an ethernet input, and a coax output. You then connect the coax output to a wall drop or outlet, and it puts your network on all of the coax connected to the outlet you connected. On the other ports in your dwelling, you put another adapter to spit out ethernet to do whatever you want. The system I have in place is rated to 2.5 Gbps, so it absolutely smokes the ethernet over power options.

If you want to know more, ask

 

[agent_x007]

Make sure you REALLY can't change settings in ISP router (by asking ISP support).
Just plain channel switch can help a good deal, especially if there are a lot of other WiFi users in the area.
Another option (as mentioned) is getting your own router that connects to ISP one via wire (remember to tell ISP to disable/turn off their router's WiFi or "puting it in bridge mode" remotely).
I will add to here, that if you can, you could upgrade WiFi card if it's a PC/laptop (this can't do much for smartphones/tablets though ).

 

[Red Hood]

Powerline with wifi

You can configure the access point (the larger device) with the same ssid and password as the wifi network from the router

The smaller device you connect to one of the LAN ports on the router

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/powerline/tl-wpa7817-kit/ (better spec if your internet line is 900 megs +)

AV1000 Gigabit Powerline ac Wi-Fi Kit

The TL-WPA7517 KIT AV1000 Powerline WiFi Kit extends both wired and WiFi network throughout your home via your home's existing electrical wiring, eliminating WiFi dead zones and buffering.

www.tp-link.com

 

[Octopuss]

Don't know about the consumer protection laws in your country but in the US and many other places, you are allowed to purchase your own devices and connect them to your ISPs network. This often will let you avoid paying 4 or 5 times the value of the device in rental fees over time but also lets you buy a better device. And perhaps more importantly, it keeps your ISP from snooping around through backdoor access.

I always recommend buying your own. And I recommend separate wireless router and modem instead of a "residential gateway" (integrated wireless router and modem).

For sure, 2 concrete walls are not helping your situation. You may have to string Ethernet instead - if possible.

I'm sure I can over here (the EU) as well, but it's not my flat. My gf lives there and she has her hands full of other crap, plus the flat belongs to her mother, so the contract is in her name, and I'm not even sure the support would talk to me if I decided to call them. I don't remember the details, but I think either the only the ISP has access to the router's management or something.
But really, I don't think there is any reasonably priced router that has antenna(s) powerful enough to penetrate two concrete walls (maybe 3 depending on line of sight) anyway.

Powerline with wifi

You can configure the access point (the larger device) with the same ssid and password as the wifi network from the router

The smaller device you connect to one of the LAN ports on the router

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/powerline/tl-wpa7817-kit/ (better spec if your internet line is 900 megs +)

AV1000 Gigabit Powerline ac Wi-Fi Kit

The TL-WPA7517 KIT AV1000 Powerline WiFi Kit extends both wired and WiFi network throughout your home via your home's existing electrical wiring, eliminating WiFi dead zones and buffering.

www.tp-link.com

Aha, there are combined devices of this type? Nice. But don't I need compatible Tp-Link router for this?

 

[A Computer Guy]

I don't deal with networking very often and never was very educated in this field to begin with, and on top of that I seem to have acute lack of caffeine in the brain cells, so I feel especially stupid today and couldn't figure this out.

Is there any way to extend the range of crappy wifi from a router? I know I could do this easily with say two Ruckus APs that have this feature built into the software, but these APs are pretty expensive and I'm thinking on a budget here, so I'd like to do this with one additional device only - if it's possible at all, which thinking about it more I have doubts about.

Back before WiFi mesh was a thing I simply extended my WiFi network with another wireless router connecting them via cable or powerline adaptor so the 2nd router essentially was a switch with a wireless AP. The downside of course was having to manually connect/disconnect to the network if moving through the house from one location to another with a laptop.

 

[Octopuss]

Yep, that's exactly what I don't want

If I understand correctly, mesh is a feature of Tp-Link, right? Can that work with two APs (that's what I have here at home with dual Ruckus APs) or does one of the devices have to be a router?

Oh I have just remembered one more thing: the router from the ISP is connected via fibre cable. I haven't see anything like that before, and quick google search gave me exactly nothing.I guess this is not very widespread thing?

FFS why is the forum combining posts? That's messed up!

 

[Red Hood]

Aha, there are combined devices of this type? Nice. But don't I need compatible Tp-Link router for this?

Thats only for the TP Link Mesh System

The device works with most home routers, you can configure with the same wifi settings as the router, dhcp will still be issued from the router

 

[Bill_Bright]

Power line adapters work great, when they work great. But they can also be greatly affected by poor and aging wiring in the facility. If me, I would run Ethernet. If care is taken to carefully run it along baseboards, etc. it quickly disappears into the background (at least for those living there) as long as it cannot become a tripping hazard.

 

[Octopuss]

No, I cannot run ethernet. Please stop recommending something I already said was out of the question.

Now, can two TP-Link APs act as a mesh or do I need a TP-Link router as a primary device for that?
Oh neverming, I managed to google up a page saying onemesh is ONKLY between a router and a powerline or a range extender.
I guess I won't look into this any further until I figure out the ISP side of things. If I need a router with fibre connector I might be out of luck anyway.

 

[1freedude]

Look for a device called ONT: optical network terminal. It is a different type of modem that takes fiber optic and converts it to ethernet. Not a router. After ONT is your router of choice.

 

[Octopuss]

Look for a device called ONT: optical network terminal. It is a different type of modem that takes fiber optic and converts it to ethernet. Not a router. After ONT is your router of choice.

Nope, there is classic thin optical cable running out of a wall inside of the flat (that's part of 14 story building) directly into the router. Like I said, I have never seen anything like that.
I'll take a closer look tomorrow and write down the brand and model number.

 

[1freedude]

I meant, look to get one instead of the bullshit ont/router combo

 

[Octopuss]

But there certainly are things that need to be configured which the ISP will not tell me. I guess.

 

[Aken Bosch]

Get one (or 2 if needed) TP-Link or any router that has support for the range extender function, read the manual, configure, that's it. It's extremely easy. Wi-Fi SSID will be the same, basicly you're gonna build a mesh at a fraction of the money. I've configured exactly that for the same type of situation as yours (put 2 because there was a L shaped corridor) involved.

The brand of the ONT router doesn't matter.

P.S. Something like a TP-Link Archer C54 AC1200 should suffice.

My 2c.

 

[Octopuss]

Ugh, it's actually this thing: https://e.huawei.com/en/products/optical-terminal/echolife-eg8145v5

Huawei of all things. Great.
It's also several years old, there are no firmware updates or anything.

I hope I can get some info about the contract with the ISP. This shit needs to go.

I have no idea how weak the antennas in this Huawei piece of junk are, but perhaps if I buy a beefy router, the signal strength would be higher enough so that I wouldn't need to buy anything extra just yet.

 

[Aken Bosch]

Yeah, it's the exact same thing I have from my provider. It's crap. That shit won't go, because it's one of the few models they deploy (in my case they have 3 models from Huawei and 1 from ZTE, all crap).

The antennas are very weak, however you won't get away with just putting a more powerful router in place...

 

[Octopuss]

I think I managed to find some info on the ISP's website that implies no extra configuration is needed. I might just need to grab an ONT and whatever router and I'm good to go.
Are you sure a decent router with several antennas wouldn't improve the situation in any meaningful way? I don't need the speed across the flat to be very high, if it ends up just a little higher but not dropping, that's a good starting point.
I can always buy the Proline adapters (or whatever they are) later on.

 

[Bill_Bright]

There's no such thing as "weak antennas". And just because the router is made by Huawei does not mean it is inferior either.

That router supports 802.11AC - which is a fairly recent protocol.

The fact that router has two exterior antennas that are movable already puts it well ahead of nearly all 11AC (or older) routers that have internal antennas only. You can experiment with their orientation, positioning one in the horizontal position, for example, or both 45° out without having to rotate the entire router.

And also note, if they are detachable, you can simply buy antenna extension cables and move the antenna higher up which often can significantly increase range.

Note that two antennas does NOT make the antenna system "stronger". While wifi RF signals do typically travel in straight lines (line of sight), they also travel (propagate) in all (omni) directions and are bounced and reflected off other objects. This means it is normal for multiple signals of different signal strengths to hit the router at the same time. Having multiple antennas simply means the router can pick and choose which antenna is receiving the strongest signal at any given point in time.

That said, there certainly are better, newer routers with newer protocols (wifi 6 and wifi7, for example) out there that may offer better range - HOWEVER your distant end device needs to support the same advanced protocols to take full advantage.

If the adapter in the distant-end device does not have external antennas, consider getting a new adaptor that does.

 

[Octopuss]

So more antennas doesn't mean the device has stronger signal? The TP-Link routers I've been looking at (Archer X72 or so) have six or so of them. That looks a little ridiculous but gives strong uneducated impression.

Oh another thing I can do is grab a wifi-less Powerline kit (that's actually really cheap) and plug a standalone AP into that. That thing would actually sit in the middle of the flat. I presume standalone AP has better signal than any router by design, or not? Anyway, the position might make the biggest difference.
And I might not need to buy a new router at all (I will want to at some point just to get rif of that Huawei shit - no spying backdoor brand has place in any household I have any power over)