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Facebook Will Trial Showing Ads in Oculus Quest Games

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People want a gaming experience, not ads shoved into their eyeballs....
Yep. And facebook is trying to look at how many ads people are willing to shove into their own eyeballs to compromise for a gaming experience.

I say none. Facebook and gaming experience are two totally different things.
 
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Consider this: if FB truly cared about making VR for gaming anything more than a glorified data mining and ad machine, they would certainly not run the policy they run on it now: login and ad invasion. Opt out? Nope.. eat it or you have nothing.

They lost a significant portion of the potential market in doing so, after all, slowing down market penetration tremendously. So the price of entry is lower but content creation became that much harder to sell broadly; fast moving to the same cesspool that is mobile gaming and its 'F2P' models. Only FB stands to gain here and only short term. And meanwhile nothing really is free, either. Its so silly you couldnt make it up.
 

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Consider this: if FB truly cared about making VR for gaming anything more than a glorified data mining and ad machine, they would certainly not run the policy they run on it now: login and ad invasion. Opt out? Nope.. eat it or you have nothing.

They lost a significant portion of the potential market in doing so, after all, slowing down market penetration tremendously. So the price of entry is lower but content creation became that much harder to sell broadly; fast moving to the same cesspool that is mobile gaming and its 'F2P' models. Only FB stands to gain here and only short term. And meanwhile nothing really is free, either. Its so silly you couldnt make it up.
Yeah, I get it and just to be clear I don't agree with ads in-game and I don't play mobile games. But like I said at $299 it's still a great wireless PCVR HMD for SteamVR. It has 120hz support and to get a VR HMD that has 120hz support will cost you $1000+ USD and have a tethered wire. It has the best controllers on the market other than the overpriced Index controllers that only have one game that totally supports everything it can do which is HL:A.

When smartphones came out they locked you into an OS. I just rooted my phone to update to whichever version I wanted and removed the ads. I didn't say I'm not buying a smartphone.. You could argue that you can't root the Quest 2.. You don't need to because you can already sideload apps using SideQuest. You already have access to Developer mode. I don't expect to be using this HMD for more than 1 to 2 more years which is fine at $299. Using Virtual Desktop you can load straight into SteamVR and play all of the great PCVR titles. Plus it has a modular head strap.

Oh wow while I was writing this I got a notification from RoadToVR that Target just dropped the price of the Quest 2 to $249! Again you don't have to support the ads, but you can still take advantage of a great HMD for a great price. I was always told not to look a gift horse in the mouth and never turn away free money. This is literally free money. Also if you are worried about what if FB removes SideQuest and Developer mode.. They won't and if they do it will be circumvented fairly quick and they know it...
 
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they would certainly not run the policy they run on it now: login and ad invasion.
I haven't ever seen this, not once. If fact, I don't even "log in". And to the topic of the article, this is the developers inserting ads into their own games and sharing revenue by choice, not FB injecting them into apps. You are understandably not in favor of having to opt out, but from their blog post-- " It’s also important that people can manage the ads they see, so we’re including controls to hide specific ads or hide ads from an advertiser completely." And from a PCVR perspective, none of this applies. (edit: I misunderstood the blog post, the controls do not turn off ads entirely)
They lost a significant portion of the potential market in doing so, after all, slowing down market penetration tremendously.
quite the opposite, it has increased dramatically since Q2 launch. In fact, it has outsold every Oculus headset combined.
So the price of entry is lower but content creation became that much harder to sell broadly;
actually, a 2X-10X increase in sales for devs.

I may have misunderstood the points you were making.
 
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Yeah, I get it and just to be clear I don't agree with ads in-game and I don't play mobile games. But like I said at $299 it's still a great wireless PCVR HMD for SteamVR. It has 120hz support and to get a VR HMD that has 120hz support will cost you $1000+ USD and have a tethered wire. It has the best controllers on the market other than the overpriced Index controllers that only have one game that totally supports everything it can do which is HL:A.

When smartphones came out they locked you into an OS. I just rooted my phone to update to whichever version I wanted and removed the ads. I didn't say I'm not buying a smartphone.. You could argue that you can't root the Quest 2.. You don't need to because you can already sideload apps using SideQuest. You already have access to Developer mode. I don't expect to be using this HMD for more than 1 to 2 more years which is fine at $299. Using Virtual Desktop you can load straight into SteamVR and play all of the great PCVR titles. Plus it has a modular head strap.

Oh wow while I was writing this I got a notification from RoadToVR that Target just dropped the price of the Quest 2 to $249! Again you don't have to support the ads, but you can still take advantage of a great HMD for a great price. I was always told not to look a gift horse in the mouth and never turn away free money. This is literally free money. Also if you are worried about what if FB removes SideQuest and Developer mode.. They won't and if they do it will be circumvented fairly quick and they know it...

I don't see it as free money though, its -250 after all :D and I view it as supporting an ecosystem that is dead on arrival due to the business practices feeding these headsets to the public.

Smartphones STILL lock you into an OS. You can root but then you're also out of protection from the great gatekeepers of our time, much like warranty and tinkering with devices always has. Nothing is new here, like you correctly pointed out. In fact these walled gardens we speak of are a recent point of discussion up to and including lawsuits (Apple, Google, Epic, etc.), tying directly into what the price for digital distribution might be and how much hardware is allowed to lock consumers in - but also, how individual content creators are capable of marketing product and the share they pay to said gatekeepers, the exposure they get, etc.

But, I'm not here to buy all the hardware I can get, Im mostly buying hardware to do things with and in doing so support and broaden a marketplace/creator space that is valuable. In that sense, gaming has flourished, but mobile gaming most certainly is not taking off in any sort of way we prefer to see. Effectively mobile gaming on those smartphones you mention has been a nail in the coffin for serious games. Its time to connect those dots here wrt VR as well. Is this a long lasting, good creator space that Facebook is funding, or is it in fact more of the same that will and already is devolving into MTX, ad-ridden, F2P bullshit titles? I mean, the great VR games are still rare amongst a sea of half-finished tech demos, let's be real.

In a market that has already evolved and grown, these things have already had an impact (PC/console gaming) and now they're infesting a new creator space in VR. The game is basically corrupted before it really took off. The gems in VR have to already come from big studios because smaller ones are left with ad banners in hopes of budgeting a half decent game. Yep, that'll be fantastic in the long run...

Not with a ten foot pole or even for a 10 dollar entry fee, as long as this party and this policy is needed to make the price as it is. Its not viable that way and never will be, and if it is, its not a place I want to be found in.

That said, I get your argument and stance on it too, why not enjoy it for what it is, but I'm seeing a gross power/balance problem here with consumer versus supplier. I'm not supporting that either, because again, long term it damages us all. Facebook already, evidently, has and continues doing so. Zuckerberg has no shame and his moral compass is so fucked up, you can't even find his direction if you wanted to. Its all and only about cash flow and influence, to an end nobody really understands.

I haven't ever seen this, not once. If fact, I don't even "log in". And to the topic of the article, this is the developers inserting ads into their own games and sharing revenue by choice, not FB injecting them into apps. You are understandably not in favor of having to opt out, but from their blog post-- " It’s also important that people can manage the ads they see, so we’re including controls to hide specific ads or hide ads from an advertiser completely." And from a PCVR perspective, none of this applies. (edit: I misunderstood the blog post, the controls do not turn off ads entirely)

quite the opposite, it has increased dramatically since Q2 launch. In fact, it has outsold every Oculus headset combined.

actually, a 2X-10X increase in sales for devs.

I may have misunderstood the points you were making.

You understand them well, but sales do not equal worthwhile content. Mobile game sales go through the roof too, and what do we get, EA and others reporting year-over-year profit on SKINS and MTX instead of actual content. The actual content is really not all that great or much more than 15 minute dopamine cycles, more often than not. There isn't a lack of content for VR... there is a lack of great content for it.

The quality content is not fed by ads. Never has, never will and even if it was, because it floats on ad revenue, it could fade any day of the week. One of the supposedly best VR titles right now, Alyx, didn't need or use a single ad to get created. Now find another dev doing the same trick in Facebook's ad-infested creator space. I think you'll be waiting a long time.
 
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Yeah, I get it and just to be clear I don't agree with ads in-game and I don't play mobile games. But like I said at $299 it's still a great wireless PCVR HMD for SteamVR. It has 120hz support and to get a VR HMD that has 120hz support will cost you $1000+ USD and have a tethered wire. It has the best controllers on the market other than the overpriced Index controllers that only have one game that totally supports everything it can do which is HL:A.

When smartphones came out they locked you into an OS. I just rooted my phone to update to whichever version I wanted and removed the ads. I didn't say I'm not buying a smartphone.. You could argue that you can't root the Quest 2.. You don't need to because you can already sideload apps using SideQuest. You already have access to Developer mode. I don't expect to be using this HMD for more than 1 to 2 more years which is fine at $299. Using Virtual Desktop you can load straight into SteamVR and play all of the great PCVR titles. Plus it has a modular head strap.

Oh wow while I was writing this I got a notification from RoadToVR that Target just dropped the price of the Quest 2 to $249! Again you don't have to support the ads, but you can still take advantage of a great HMD for a great price. I was always told not to look a gift horse in the mouth and never turn away free money. This is literally free money. Also if you are worried about what if FB removes SideQuest and Developer mode.. They won't and if they do it will be circumvented fairly quick and they know it...
There is no such thing as free money. You always pay with something. If not with your money, then with a (hidden) subscription plan. If not with that, then with watching tons of ads. If not even with that, then with your personal data. It's just a business practice to offer something at a lower price to reel customers in and make them pay in the long run. As for me, I'd rather pay a higher price once, and enjoy relative freedom.
 
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Hi,
Yep pass if you can't get on board with facebook.
I have no issue passing on facebook/ twitter nonsense either.
 

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I don't see it as free money though, its -250 after all :D and I view it as supporting an ecosystem that is dead on arrival due to the business practices feeding these headsets to the public.

Smartphones STILL lock you into an OS. You can root but then you're also out of protection from the great gatekeepers of our time, much like warranty and tinkering with devices always has. Nothing is new here, like you correctly pointed out. In fact these walled gardens we speak of are a recent point of discussion up to and including lawsuits (Apple, Google, Epic, etc.), tying directly into what the price for digital distribution might be and how much hardware is allowed to lock consumers in - but also, how individual content creators are capable of marketing product and the share they pay to said gatekeepers, the exposure they get, etc.

But, I'm not here to buy all the hardware I can get, Im mostly buying hardware to do things with and in doing so support and broaden a marketplace/creator space that is valuable. In that sense, gaming has flourished, but mobile gaming most certainly is not taking off in any sort of way we prefer to see. Effectively mobile gaming on those smartphones you mention has been a nail in the coffin for serious games. Its time to connect those dots here wrt VR as well. Is this a long lasting, good creator space that Facebook is funding, or is it in fact more of the same that will and already is devolving into MTX, ad-ridden, F2P bullshit titles? I mean, the great VR games are still rare amongst a sea of half-finished tech demos, let's be real.

In a market that has already evolved and grown, these things have already had an impact (PC/console gaming) and now they're infesting a new creator space in VR. The game is basically corrupted before it really took off. The gems in VR have to already come from big studios because smaller ones are left with ad banners in hopes of budgeting a half decent game. Yep, that'll be fantastic in the long run...

Not with a ten foot pole or even for a 10 dollar entry fee, as long as this party and this policy is needed to make the price as it is. Its not viable that way and never will be, and if it is, its not a place I want to be found in.

That said, I get your argument and stance on it too, why not enjoy it for what it is, but I'm seeing a gross power/balance problem here with consumer versus supplier. I'm not supporting that either, because again, long term it damages us all. Facebook already, evidently, has and continues doing so. Zuckerberg has no shame and his moral compass is so fucked up, you can't even find his direction if you wanted to. Its all and only about cash flow and influence, to an end nobody really understands.



You understand them well, but sales do not equal worthwhile content. Mobile game sales go through the roof too, and what do we get, EA and others reporting year-over-year profit on SKINS and MTX instead of actual content. The actual content is really not all that great or much more than 15 minute dopamine cycles, more often than not. There isn't a lack of content for VR... there is a lack of great content for it.

The quality content is not fed by ads. Never has, never will and even if it was, because it floats on ad revenue, it could fade any day of the week. One of the supposedly best VR titles right now, Alyx, didn't need or use a single ad to get created. Now find another dev doing the same trick in Facebook's ad-infested creator space. I think you'll be waiting a long time.
I still don't see the difference in FB, Google, MS, Apple, etc... I think you are missing out on a lot of well made games, but yes there are way to many bad games and Valve has a ton on Steam. You have to dig for the gems like Boneworks, Walking Dead Saints and sinners, Beat Saber, Pavlov VR, Pavlov Shack, Rec Room, BigscreenVR, Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim VR, Moss, Accounting +, both Rick and Morty games, Aircar, Destinations, Gnomes & Goblins, Google Earth VR, all the Google spot light stuff, The Lab, Robinson the Journey, Star Wars Squadrons, Super Hot VR, The Blu, Tilt Brush, Quill VR, Job Simulator, Vacation Simulator, Verigo, Youtube VR, Face Your Fears, Asgard's Wrath, Stormland, Lone Echo, Arizona Sunshine, The Climb 1 and 2, Star Wars Vader Immortal, Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, Edge of Nowhere... I know I've left some out but oh wait the best for last Half-Life:Alyx.

It's worth buying a Quest 2 right now just to play HL:A and you'll never see an add. Also, within the first week someone already by passed the facebook login requirement and only use it as a wireless PCVR HMD.. I wouldn't do that but there is a tutorial on Youtube. Also, I know I left out some more, but it's late and i'm tired..lol I paid 799 for a HTC Vive and the Quest 2 is by far a much better HMD. Also, if you want to not use the games that have ads then there is a ton of games that don't have ads.. All of which I just listed.

Again, I do see your point and you made some very good ones as well. It's good to see both sides. I can't wait to get more VR HMD's. I want AR to hurry up and get here as well. I can't wait to stop carrying a phone around and just have screens pop up in my fov. but no ads pop up! lol :toast:

There is no such thing as free money. You always pay with something. If not with your money, then with a (hidden) subscription plan. If not with that, then with watching tons of ads. If not even with that, then with your personal data. It's just a business practice to offer something at a lower price to reel customers in and make them pay in the long run. As for me, I'd rather pay a higher price once, and enjoy relative freedom.
Hey and that's your choice and I respect that but do you really think those higher priced items that you are buying over the cheaper ones are not collecting your precious data?

I'll agree and say I used a poor choice of words when I said it's literally free money. I understand economics and all of the bad practices you speak of. I just don't agree with the line you draw that justifies what you consider relative freedom. but again that is your choice. :toast:
 
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Hey and that's your choice and I respect that but do you really think those higher priced items that you are buying over the cheaper ones are not collecting your precious data?

I'll agree and say I used a poor choice of words when I said it's literally free money. I understand economics and all of the bad practices you speak of. I just don't agree with the line you draw that justifies what you consider relative freedom. but again that is your choice. :toast:
It's relative freedom, because you usually sacrifce less of your privacy with higher priced items compared to lower priced, or subscription based ones. I get what you mean, though. Nothing is perfect. :)
 

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It's relative freedom, because you usually sacrifce less of your privacy with higher priced items compared to lower priced, or subscription based ones. I get what you mean, though. Nothing is perfect. :)
Again what you consider relative freedom doesn't add up due to most phones are extravagantly more expensive than the quest 2. You will use your phone more than the Quest 2 and it tracks you by far more. My Quest 2 is in it's case right now powered off.. My phone is in my pocket on and if I say I want something it will be my phone that shows me all of the ads for the stuff I want not my Quest 2. So just because you pay more for an item doesn't mean it's better for you in terms of your privacy. We will just have to disagree, but I do think a VR or AR hmd will one day track you just as much, but it's just not there yet so why not take advantage of buying a VR HMD that would normally cost 2x as much?

But you are right nothing is perfect. :toast:
 
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Again what you consider relative freedom doesn't add up due to most phones are extravagantly more expensive than the quest 2. You will use your phone more than the Quest 2 and it tracks you by far more. My Quest 2 is in it's case right now powered off.. My phone is in my pocket on and if I say I want something it will be my phone that shows me all of the ads for the stuff I want not my Quest 2. So just because you pay more for an item doesn't mean it's better for you in terms of your privacy. We will just have to disagree, but I do think a VR or AR hmd will one day track you just as much, but it's just not there yet so why not take advantage of buying a VR HMD that would normally cost 2x as much?

But you are right nothing is perfect. :toast:

App policies in phones are managed, too. They collect but not too long ago, permissions were made much more limiting and informative, so its clear this is a big issue that still might not be organized the way it should be. Its clear there is friction there between user and data shared by using.

Additionally these app permissions are still circumvented. Not too long ago, Whatsapp silently changed a setting for group apps and practically allowed group admins to freely add phone numbers as those numbers were suddenly shared openly on the network. Oopsie.

So yes phones do it too. And its just as much of an issue that keeps moving closer towards direct security and privacy concerns. Difference in perspective: "why not a Quest because it does it too" or "Why pile onto that shitty situation with even MORE ways to get invaded?"

The baseline still is out of order here. Fix that, fix data ownership and push control over it to end users; not with root access or hacks but officially; and I will happily play ball.

Its easy to slowly get nudged into an ecosystem where your data is out there and everyone gets better off it except you, you are getting a discount on an HMD thats obsolete in two years time. Short term gain carrot to make sure the billion dollar enterprise stays afloat breaking every rule in the book.

Not exactly something Im happy about, mind. We are all knee deep into it and it should not be a reason to walk further into that swamp., quite the opposite.
 
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App policies in phones are managed, too. They collect but not too long ago, permissions were made much more limiting and informative, so its clear this is a big issue that still might not be organized the way it should be. Its clear there is friction there between user and data shared by using.

Additionally these app permissions are still circumvented. Not too long ago, Whatsapp silently changed a setting for group apps and practically allowed group admins to freely add phone numbers as those numbers were suddenly shared openly on the network. Oopsie.

So yes phones do it too. And its just as much of an issue that keeps moving closer towards direct security and privacy concerns. Difference in perspective: "why not a Quest because it does it too" or "Why pile onto that shitty situation with even MORE ways to get invaded?"

The baseline still is out of order here. Fix that, fix data ownership and push control over it to end users; not with root access or hacks but officially; and I will happily play ball.

Its easy to slowly get nudged into an ecosystem where your data is out there and everyone gets better off it except you, you are getting a discount on an HMD thats obsolete in two years time. Short term gain carrot to make sure the billion dollar enterprise stays afloat breaking every rule in the book.

Not exactly something Im happy about, mind. We are all knee deep into it and it should not be a reason to walk further into that swamp., quite the opposite.
I agree. I'd rather not share any of my data with any provider whatsoever. I don't post anything personal on Facebook, for example. I only use it for communication when there is no other (free) alternative.

Again what you consider relative freedom doesn't add up due to most phones are extravagantly more expensive than the quest 2.
What phones are you talking about? I never spend more than £200 on a phone, because they are all the same nowadays. Unfortunately, Android/iOS's privacy and app permission settings are the only options to control what you share, so phones aren't really relevant in this topic. Sorry that I didn't specify. :ohwell:
 

Mindweaver

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App policies in phones are managed, too. They collect but not too long ago, permissions were made much more limiting and informative, so its clear this is a big issue that still might not be organized the way it should be. Its clear there is friction there between user and data shared by using.

Additionally these app permissions are still circumvented. Not too long ago, Whatsapp silently changed a setting for group apps and practically allowed group admins to freely add phone numbers as those numbers were suddenly shared openly on the network. Oopsie.

So yes phones do it too. And its just as much of an issue that keeps moving closer towards direct security and privacy concerns. Difference in perspective: "why not a Quest because it does it too" or "Why pile onto that shitty situation with even MORE ways to get invaded?"

The baseline still is out of order here. Fix that, fix data ownership and push control over it to end users; not with root access or hacks but officially; and I will happily play ball.

Its easy to slowly get nudged into an ecosystem where your data is out there and everyone gets better off it except you, you are getting a discount on an HMD thats obsolete in two years time. Short term gain carrot to make sure the billion dollar enterprise stays afloat breaking every rule in the book.

Not exactly something Im happy about, mind. We are all knee deep into it and it should not be a reason to walk further into that swamp., quite the opposite.
All I know is that we can't get cool stuff soon enough for me. I don't see anyone else funding it, but I do see other companies jumping in. Soon we will have Apple AR/VR stuff, Sony's new PSVR 2, Valves new HMD. I truly don't believe Sony would be releasing a PSVR 2 if it wasn't for the Quest 2 sales. This is my opinion not a fact. I just want to see as much cool stuff as possible. lol

I agree. I'd rather not share any of my data with any provider whatsoever. I don't post anything personal on Facebook, for example. I only use it for communication when there is no other (free) alternative.


What phones are you talking about? I never spend more than £200 on a phone, because they are all the same nowadays. Unfortunately, Android/iOS's privacy and app permission settings are the only options to control what you share, so phones aren't really relevant in this topic. Sorry that I didn't specify. :ohwell:
So you have a FB account.. Well that's good news because you already have a Oculus account. Also, £200 phones are still expensive to a lot of people. So, they are relevant and a must have item that even a less expensive phone still collects data and helps target ads to the end user.

@Both of you guys
We are just going to have to disagree on this topic.. lol It's fine I can except you guys don't like it and I can agree on some of your points. :toast:
 
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@Both of you guys
We are just going to have to disagree on this topic.. lol It's fine I can except you guys don't like it and I can agree on some of your points. :toast:
Indeed and I respect your respect :toast: Enjoy the device! I'll stop whining now.
 
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