Fan blowing into GPU, good idea?

[agentnathan009]

This information might be useful for me at least, so I'm putting it here. HWInfo reading:
View attachment 174565
Temps capped at 75C for all readings.. that's weird aren't they different sensors on different components.

Some values is recorded differently than Afterburner, not sure if it's because of HWInfo 2 seconds logging time or another mismatches. For instance, the max GPU Power is at 150W, but Afterburner in-game overlay reported 160-170W at max, so does fan RPM, in this it's 1700RPM-ish, in Afterburner it max out at 2400RPM-ish, mostly at 2100RPM-ish. Also as you can see I never surpassed the 4GB dedicated memory.

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Yup managed to bring max temp back to 75C again after fiddling around with the curve.

Had to cancel going to town to get the paste changed.. but I ordered the paste and planning to change it myself, wish me luck and not to break anything.
I'm not gonna change the thermal pads since the price for branded/specialized GPU pad isn't justified ($40 strip of pad for a $100 used GPU!? Yeah no way).
Would you know if regular $2 thermal pads would be sufficient though? They're for low-tech generic electronic PCBs and ICs uses, and I can get them easily. Or perhaps I should leave the pads alone.

I appreciate it, though I don't know how to to flash it and after looking at tutorial here I don't think I'm comfortable doing to the flash..but might I have the modified BIOS nonetheless? Probably will try it once I'm confident enough .

It's crashing indeed, I'm following this guide on undervolting. In benchmark it was fine but in game it's crashing during intense scene. If you were to know any other more comprehensive undervolting guide, please do let me know.
I returned the voltage to default for now. Thank you.

It sounds like you don't have a quality chip, i.e., it barely works at it's rated frequency. I would try lowering the clockspeed a little, say 50-100 Mhz and see if that helps. Undervolting won't help if you are already at the limit for minimum voltage needed to maintain default clockspeed.

Changing thermal paste isn't that hard. I did that with an old nVida 460 GTX. Carefully pull cooler off when you get screws out, make sure you get fan power cable unplugged as you pull it off, it will be a short tail. Use rubbing alcohol to clean chip and heatsink, then apply a drop in the center and carefully put card back together as parallel as possible with heatsink so paste spreads outward evenly as you lay heatsink on and as you tighten screws back down. Tighten screws one turn at a time crisscrossing to get a more even tightening pattern.

 

[Sithaer]

It's crashing indeed, I'm following this guide on undervolting. In benchmark it was fine but in game it's crashing during intense scene. If you were to know any other more comprehensive undervolting guide, please do let me know.
I returned the voltage to default for now. Thank you.

Basically the only thing I did is to undervolt State 7 only since thats the active one under stress/gaming and increased the power target/limit.
Everything else is default.

Gaming is indeed different, benchmark stress often passes but games can still crash so yea it can take a while to find the right value.
Try droping it like -10 mV steps until its stable.

Ofc every card is a bit different and some might not react that well to undervolting.
I once tested a Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme RX 580 and that card could barely undervolt for example and peaked around 73-75 celsius with default settings.
Once you find the right setting just save it as a profile 'top right 3 dot menu' in case you have to reload it. 'whenever the AMD driver detects a system crash it will reset to default'

 

[rtwjunkie]

@Katzenritter my case is specifically designed to have a fan blowing cold air up into the GPU. This is in front of the and is only blowing outside of the case air up. It provides probably the only direct source of air to the GPU. Everything else indirectly gets drawn to it.

So if you ask if it will hirt it, no. Will it help? Maybe a couple degrees, which can be good for your peace of mind. Use it in combination with a dedicated fan curve and I believe you will see the greatest difference.

Edit: changed GPU to PSU, lol.

 

[John Naylor]

My case is configured exactly as in the above picture, 3 front in-take, 1 back exhaust, 2 top exhaust.
The fans below GPU will be intake, blowing from bottom-to-top, to blow more air into the GPU. Yes I'm gonna do the thermal paste as last resort, if the fan solution is not working, but is the fan worth trying though? Thanks.

1. Assuming all your existing fans are the same make and model, you case is suffering an air intake deficit. Air intake fan mounts are typically equipped with air filters, which can typically restrict air flow from 10 - 30% depending in how anal you are about cleaning the dust filters. Whatever you fan specs say (i.e. 80 cfm @ 1.6 SP). the reality is it is delivering about half that ... if your lucky:

Why Static Pressure & Max Flow Specs Are Poor Measures of Fan Performance

This is just a quick graphing demonstration of why fan box specs using static pressure and max air flow are generally poor tools in comparing fan performance. Very much like pumps, fans have a pre…

martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com

So rather than just say 40 cfm... lets just call each exhaust fan - 1 Equivalent Fan (EF) and each 20% air restricted intake fan = 0.8 EF

Front = 3 Intakes x 0.80 = 2.4 EF
Top = 2 Exhaust x 1.0 = 2.0 EF
Rear = 1 Exhaust x 1.0 = 1.0 EF

3.0 EF - 2.4 EGF = 0.6 EF Deficit (Negative Pressure) which means 60% of one fan's air flow is coming in thru openings in your case.

Now looking at your picture... the most obvious place fro air to get in ... the locations of least air resistance would be the rear grille, vented slot covers and the missing solt cover pictures above the card. What's the air like back there ? That air is being preheated by the exhaust from your 650 watt PSU and your 240 watt GFX card

https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/power_peak.png

So to a significant extent, you are not so much removing as recycling heat from your case.

2. The card does not force all air out the the rear case vent .... blower type cards do this to a larger extent but most AIB designs push only a portion of their air out of the case.

3. The 75C temp at load is typical for a Nitro 580 ... this is the 8GB , I don't see as to why the 4 GB would be significantly different. The reference card hist 84C
https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/temp.png.

4. The effect of the proposed card slot mounted fan is difficult to estimate. As shown in the pic, I expect most of the air pushed thru the fans will be recycled case air. IF mounted to the 'floor of the case, it should pull air from the case "basement", bit from the pics on the web site, could not get a good idea as to how much intake air openings were available that were nt covered by the PSU.

5. I don't see why your card would be throttling at 75C ... and at the 1080p resolution of your monitor, VRAM is certainly not the culprit for your slowdowns.

6. You can improve the air balance of your case by speeding up the intake fans or alowing down the exhaust fans.

 

[Katzenritter]

Okay so I changed the thermal paste but not the thermal pads, in fact now they are dirtier than they were due to me carelessly wiping dust on them and the dust got stuck on their glue.

Now max temp is 73C and fan speed is the same as before. I'm not sure whether it helps or not but I'm experiencing way less performance throttling even at similar temp and fan speed. No longer fps dropping once temp reached 75C and will only gets up again after temps go down, it's constant 70-73C now with constant fps 90% of the time, I'd say. While I'm not getting 60C-ish temperatures like some other cards, but I think I'm satisfied with this as games are now playable. Going to close the thread soon.

It sounds like you don't have a quality chip, i.e., it barely works at it's rated frequency. I would try lowering the clockspeed a little, say 50-100 Mhz and see if that helps. Undervolting won't help if you are already at the limit for minimum voltage needed to maintain default clockspeed.

This might be the most possible explanation, I understand electronics are only guaranteed to work at the spec it's marketed at.

Basically the only thing I did is to undervolt State 7 only since thats the active one under stress/gaming and increased the power target/limit.
Everything else is default.

Gaming is indeed different, benchmark stress often passes but games can still crash so yea it can take a while to find the right value.
Try droping it like -10 mV steps until its stable.

Ofc every card is a bit different and some might not react that well to undervolting.
I once tested a Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme RX 580 and that card could barely undervolt for example and peaked around 73-75 celsius with default settings.
Once you find the right setting just save it as a profile 'top right 3 dot menu' in case you have to reload it. 'whenever the AMD driver detects a system crash it will reset to default'

Alright, I'll try it again with smaller decrement each time on voltages and core clock.

@Katzenritter my case is specifically designed to have a fan blowing cold air up into the GPU. This is in front of the GPU and is only blowing outside of the case air up. It provides probably the only direct source of air to the GPU. Everything else indirectly gets drawn to it.

So if you ask if it will hirt it, no. Will it help? Maybe a couple degrees, which can be good for your peace of mind. Use it in combination with a dedicated fan curve and I believe you will see the greatest difference.

Thanks!

1. Assuming all your existing fans are the same make and model, you case is suffering an air intake deficit. Air intake fan mounts are typically equipped with air filters, which can typically restrict air flow from 10 - 30% depending in how anal you are about cleaning the dust filters. Whatever you fan specs say (i.e. 80 cfm @ 1.6 SP). the reality is it is delivering about half that ... if your lucky:

Why Static Pressure & Max Flow Specs Are Poor Measures of Fan Performance

This is just a quick graphing demonstration of why fan box specs using static pressure and max air flow are generally poor tools in comparing fan performance. Very much like pumps, fans have a pre…

martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com

So rather than just say 40 cfm... lets just call each exhaust fan - 1 Equivalent Fan (EF) and each 20% air restricted intake fan = 0.8 EF

Front = 3 Intakes x 0.80 = 2.4 EF
Top = 2 Exhaust x 1.0 = 2.0 EF
Rear = 1 Exhaust x 1.0 = 1.0 EF

3.0 EF - 2.4 EGF = 0.6 EF Deficit (Negative Pressure) which means 60% of one fan's air flow is coming in thru openings in your case.

Now looking at your picture... the most obvious place fro air to get in ... the locations of least air resistance would be the rear grille, vented slot covers and the missing solt cover pictures above the card. What's the air like back there ? That air is being preheated by the exhaust from your 650 watt PSU and your 240 watt GFX card

https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/power_peak.png

So to a significant extent, you are not so much removing as recycling heat from your case.

2. The card does not force all air out the the rear case vent .... blower type cards do this to a larger extent but most AIB designs push only a portion of their air out of the case.

3. The 75C temp at load is typical for a Nitro 580 ... this is the 8GB , I don't see as to why the 4 GB would be significantly different. The reference card hist 84C
https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-rx-580-nitro-plus/images/temp.png.

4. The effect of the proposed card slot mounted fan is difficult to estimate. As shown in the pic, I expect most of the air pushed thru the fans will be recycled case air. IF mounted to the 'floor of the case, it should pull air from the case "basement", bit from the pics on the web site, could not get a good idea as to how much intake air openings were available that were nt covered by the PSU.

5. I don't see why your card would be throttling at 75C ... and at the 1080p resolution of your monitor, VRAM is certainly not the culprit for your slowdowns.

6. You can improve the air balance of your case by speeding up the intake fans or alowing down the exhaust fans.

Hi! Just a little note, my case is lying on its side, so side panel at the top. What I meant 'top fan' is if the case were standing normally.

1 & 6. My intakes are not filtered (I cleaned the dust outside of the case every day), in fact the top exhausts are.. But I still possibly have negatives air pressure. I'll took down one of the top exhaust, and installed one just like this I found on reddit, to get more air from outside. It might be true the air outside the back of the case is hot from PSU and GFX card, but I reckon it's better than no air flow at all?
2. I see. So my tipe of cooler only throw the hot air inside the case again, and it can't rise up to the exhaust due to case being horizontal.
3 & 5. I was concerned since I thought the temperature caused throttling when it shouldn't, according to reviews that temps is normal. Now that it throttles less, I'm okay with 75C. I might not get the same low temperature as other Nitro+ cards but as long as it works and doesn't damage anything, good enough for me.
4. I'm thinking it would help pushing air to the exhaust since hot air can't naturally rise up.. but you're right it doesn't have much cool air to work with. Gonna try the reddit one.