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Fractal releases Ion Gold PSU Series

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They're using a Hong Hua fan for my PX-750, yes, but it's FDB.
Pseudo 'FDB', a rifle rather, bqt SW3 are 'real' FDB by Matsushita, Corsair NR fans in their high-end lineups (essentially everything except RM and RM-x) are too, ASUS also uses old scool double-ball-bearing fans in their Seasonic rebrands. Not that it matters a lot if Seasonic will still amortize potentially higher (than of competition) fan failure rates, but still goes against the 'Seasonic always uses best' sentiment.
While idling & also gaming I can confirm that it's inaudible.
Yeah, as i said, there are some percent of users that don't hear anything, and some that do, i don't have exact numbers tho.
 
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Seasonic ... -snip-

Seemingly since you started right off the bat with "Seasonic BEST", which is something I never said, I didn't read your post. If you don't have the reading comprehension or the intend to read my post properly, I don't have the intend to read your wall of TED text either.

I've also said "Japanese formula" yet you talked about how Japanese caps are made in other places like I don't know it.

Teapos are known to age quicker than Nippons, Nichicons or whatever else caps out there. They're a lower grade and this is a fact. Some people exclusively ditch them and intend on only buying PSUs with Jap caps. I personally have suggested a fair amount of FSP units with those Taiwanese caps, but they go for budget anyway. Backing up on my OP, I was shooting for Super Flower over these. As was said by uncleweb, it's a shame that Super Flower's presence isn't great everywhere.
 
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Seemingly since you started right off the bat with "Seasonic BEST", which is something I never said, I didn't read your post. If you don't have the reading comprehension or the intend to read my post properly
If you noticed, i wasn't quoting you alone but i think "It's just not Seasonic good" is close enough to "Seasonic is the best", don't you think ? No need to insult my reading comprehension abilities if you isn't willing to read yourself, i'm making a point to whom do.
 
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It's not Seasonic good means it's not as good as Seasonic. It's not even close to saying "Seasonic is the best". You continue to show your lack of reading skills.

Then you talked about some very old designs such as the M12-III or you owning an RM with rather crap Su'scon caps in a premium PSU - and because JonnyGuru designed it, it should be acceptable or something. Apparently a 10 year old warranty makes up for it...

I don't know how any of that is relevant to the topic but I think you're simply misunderstanding and making your way up along.
 
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Then you talked about some very old designs such as the M12-III
I'm talking about S12III which is barely two years old, there's no such thing as M12III.
because JonnyGuru designed it, it should be acceptable or something.
Yeah, a man who is actually in the industry, having actual numbers on the matter, just thought that would be of some significance.
 
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S12-III is based on an antic design with some DC-DC thrown across, whenever it came out is IRRELEVANT as the platform its based on is old as heck.

Jonnyguru might be the god of PSUs for all you like, that doesn't change the matter of fact of him working for Corsair and Corsair asking him to save a buck or two on each unit by putting those crappy caps on them. Guess what? There are no Super Flower or Seasonic units without majorly Nippon caps, out of the modern platforms or even older ones.
 
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S12III isn't DC-DC to begin with. It's dual mag-amp indy regulated.

And a pretty okay unit even today, but still vastly overhyped by multiple Seasonic fanboys (nevermind it's not even made in Seasonic factories, rather it's outsourced to RSY).
 
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S12-III is based on an antic design with some DC-DC thrown across
It's not DC-DC, neither it's particularly old (not that it matters, it was still released two years ago), just very cheap, with Seasonic label on it. That was my point against your and other posters 'Seasonic makes best' sentiment.
Corsair asking him to save a buck or two on each unit by putting those crappy caps on them.
Saving, yes, that was the whole point of not putting expensive Jap caps in there, RM 2019 is sort of OEM unit really, they put it in their prebuilds (with RTX3080, which it fares well with), so it should be cheap so they can expect reasonable margins. And if he is sure that they'll survive 10 years they give warranty for this thing i don't really care what brand they are. Time will tell if he's right, whether he knows something we don't or 'Jap caps' is just a marketing.
There are no Super Flower or Seasonic units without majorly Nippon caps, out of the modern platforms or even older ones.
Oh really ? Didn't we just talk about S12III and B12 BC ? And there are equally cheap designs from Super Flower too, you're just unaware of them.
 
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I just bought a 750w gold unit, which will go nicely in my Define 6 case. I did have a EVGA 650W supernova, but after only 5 years into its 10yr warranty is died and due to Brexit (which I didn't vote for) RMA to Germany is problematic to put it lightly.

A big part of why I went for a Fractal PSU is the warranty cover, its not the 10yr period as a lot of makers are now doing that. It's the fact that Scan.co.uk cover the whole 10yrs and if for some reason there is an issue or if I had not of bought it from Scan, Fractal have told me in writing that they would collect and replace the PSU at their cost. I think they can do because they are based in Sweden, so partly out of the EU or Sweden has an import/export agreement with the UK?
 
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Lol, "Sparkle" is the last thing I'd want to name my PSU company.
sparkly pink rose GIF
 
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It's not DC-DC, neither it's particularly old (not that it matters, it was still released two years ago), just very cheap, with Seasonic label on it. That was my point against your and other posters 'Seasonic makes best' sentiment.

Saving, yes, that was the whole point of not putting expensive Jap caps in there, RM 2019 is sort of OEM unit really, they put it in their prebuilds (with RTX3080, which it fares well with), so it should be cheap so they can expect reasonable margins. And if he is sure that they'll survive 10 years they give warranty for this thing i don't really care what brand they are. Time will tell if he's right, whether he knows something we don't or 'Jap caps' is just a marketing.

Oh really ? Didn't we just talk about S12III and B12 BC ? And there are equally cheap designs from Super Flower too, you're just unaware of them.

It IS based on a very old design with an update or two, the base platform is the same thing found on the 10+ year old M12 / S12 units. This is the third time you're shoving me that Seasonic best sentiment, how about you learn to read and stop trying to make yourself look right?

Time doesn't need to show anything, if you're putting low loads on your PSU, those caps should do OK but those caps are one reason to throw your PSU out to a secondary PC after a good 5-10 years of run at heavier loads. PSUs with Jap caps, on the other hand, can keep going.

Yes, Super Flower does have some designs that aren't as good as Golden Green or w/e, but the point is, THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE in most markets NOR ANYBODY ACTUALLY BUYS THEM.
 
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It IS based on a very old design with an update or two, the base platform is the same thing found on the 10+ year old M12 / S12 units. This is the third time you're shoving me that Seasonic best sentiment, how about you learn to read and stop trying to make yourself look right?
You don't know what are you talking about, read reviews yourself and you'll see.
THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE in most markets NOR ANYBODY ACTUALLY BUYS THEM.
Oh, really ?
EVGA B3, uses Teapo caps on secondary, so it's bad if we follow your logic.
Super Flower Legion HX, there are no reviews yet but they only claim primary Japanese capacitors, so secondary can be anything, most likely Teapo or Elite given Super Flower track record.
I don't know why i'm still arguing with you at this point. You've happily living in your own 'Seasonic and Super Flower are the best, they only use best quality Japanese capacitors and therefore their PSUs can't be bad' - world, so i leave you in it, adios, i'm out.
 
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You don't know what are you talking about, read reviews yourself and you'll see.

Oh, really ?
EVGA B3, uses Teapo caps on secondary, so it's bad if we follow your logic.
Super Flower Legion HX, there are no reviews yet but they only claim primary Japanese capacitors, so secondary can be anything, most likely Teapo or Elite given Super Flower track record.
I don't know why i'm still arguing with you at this point. You've happily living in your own 'Seasonic and Super Flower are the best, they only use best quality Japanese capacitors and therefore their PSUs can't be bad' - world, so i leave you in it, adios, i'm out.

You have zero reading comprehension and you insist to think I believe Seasonic is the best, which is something I NEVER SAID.

I don't need to read no reviews on the S12, if you look at the design you will find out that it's based on an actually very old platform with some upgrades.

EVGA B3 is not even a good PSU, and Super Flower has always used Nippon Chemi-Cons in their units. You argue with me while knowing none of this. Neither I said just because a PSU uses Jap caps, it's the best. Get real already.
 
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So really, there's nothing you can base your claims on ? Just a bunch of marketing videos from folks on YT ?
Claims on common knowledge... It appeares to me you are pretty knowledgeable here, so why are you trolling? just stop flamebaiting already.

gonna stop feeding ....
 
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Sirtec will default to mediocre/inferior quality parts. Other OEMs like Seasonic start out with a higher quality base.

Sirtec, Seasonic, Delta, Lite-On, etc., get a manufacturing price point from the brands (or their own internal team if going under their label) and manufacturing will choose the parts accordingly. Some of the better brands will have a stricter supplier list for certain lines and the cost of that is passed from OEM to Brand to consumer.

I thought it was something else cause why would a high quality psu fail in a week right?

Bad part, bad manufacturing, or damaged along the shipping channel of multiple warehouses, trucks, ships, and train.

Teapo caps which age considerably worse than Japanese formula capacitors

Maybe even as recent as a decade ago and they have considerably narrowed the gap in the last several years. The few people I know in the industry even roll their eyes on the whole cap tier thing as being over blown. Personally, I would take the better known quality cap manufacturer especially once you start to break a certain price point but I would no longer dismiss teapo caps just because of the bran name either especially on a modern well designed platform.

Seasonic doesn't use exclusively Japanese capacitors either, not that it matters as long they're fit for the job. And For the reference, Corsair RM 2019 uses Su'scon and Elite capacitors, yet they offer full 10 years warranty on it because Jon Gerow knows his stuff.

What is a Japanese capacitor? Manufactured in Japan? HQ in Japan? raw material from Japan? Sales office in Japan? It's a marketing term so any of the previous is a japanes cap and has been used by brands in marketing.

Obviously those capacitors passed internal QC and CWT & Corsair are pleased with the QA otherwise there would be a significant cost impact across the board for all three (part, OEM, brand).

Jon knows his stuff but my "guess" is his team, CWT, and the part manufacturer are all proving proof it will pass their ten year warranty test.

Seasonic for some reason uses Hong Hua rifle-bearing fans on their entire high-end lineup

Because they have a contract and Hong Hua provides the perfect mix of price, quality, quantity, and most important consistency (getting the fans to them on time).

Where all that 'Seasonic is the best' started from ? I just can't wrap my head about it, they're just another OEM, using the same components as everyone else as long as their customer doesn't require lower quality components specifically to drive down costs. Which they're perfectly fine with doing themselves, remember Seasonic S12III ? Now wait for reviews of Seasonic B12 BC / G12 GC, because they're essentially 1st Player Armour PSUs with Seasonic label on it, i hope there will be reviews at least, but i pretty sure there wouldn't, because Seasonic doesn't want that 'Seasonic is the best' image they were constructing by sponsoring YT tech channels for a decade. There is also a Seasonic Core series with very few good enough reviews to date, and none from Aris, i wonder why, because they didn't send any review samples ?

Long story rather short; in the NA market a few brands like PC P&C saw a niche demand of better replacement PSU among the market of various levels of junk. PC P&C tapped seasonic and soon other brands like Antec and eventually Corsair tapped them as well along with other OEMs like Delta & CWT. Review sites like Hardware Secrets and Jonnyguru praised the seasonic builds against the junk competition and to Seasonic (and the brands) credit they saw the reviews for what they are are; free marketing. Soon they started to build units specifically to achieve test results that sent reviewers and readers into orgasmic PC builder bliss. Soon you have legions of readers seeing fan posts and tier lists of nothing but "Seasonic is the best anything else is heresy" thread after thread even if there are other OEMs out there can build units just as good if not better given the appropriate manufacturing price point. Why doesn't seasonic send out their lower end units or outsourced units for testing? Because they have brand equity among the PC builders community to protect.

It would be nice if there were more options like super flower, FSP, sparkle, etc. but here in North America, seasonic and seasonic re-brands seems to be most prevalent.
plenty of excellent CWT units out there under various brands, as well as super flower units under evga, FSP units under Be Quiet

there are two sparkles;
Sparkle Power Inc is FSP (name change)
Sparkle Computer sells graphic cards and at one time sold some PSU made by great wall
 
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If only these excellent units would also provide excellent cabling. Stock Seasonic cables & Fractal Design ION+ cables are the only good ones so far.
 
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Teapos are known to age quicker than Nippons,
"known" being the keyword. The teapo caps (assuming of equal spec) may start to de-rate quicker than hitachi, panasonic, nippon but that may start at 80,000 hours which would be well over a decade of use in the real world unless you are running a server/mining rig (still take over nine years).
 
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"known" being the keyword. The teapo caps (assuming of equal spec) may start to de-rate quicker than hitachi, panasonic, nippon but that may start at 80,000 hours which would be well over a decade of use in the real world unless you are running a server/mining rig (still take over nine years).

We're not living in 2008 anymore, when equivalent PSUs give me NCCs, I'm picking that. We've seen enough Teapos going bad in past, and many people run their PSUs in passive which can result in freak deaths out of nowhere.
 
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We're not living in 2008 anymore,

Damn it, all my clocks have the wrong year in them again!

when equivalent PSUs give me NCCs, I'm picking that.

No one has stated you (or anyone else) should do otherwise.

We've seen enough

Who is "We" in that?

Teapos going bad in past,

like back in 2008? cause that would be contrary to your first statement?

can result in freak deaths out of nowhere.

if it's freak and out of no where that means you don't know how or what caused the issue so how can you blame the caps?
 
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Damn it, all my clocks have the wrong year ion them again!



No one has stated you (or anyone else) should do otherwise.



Who is "We" in that?



like back in 2008? cause that would be contrary to your first statement?



if it's freak and out of no where that means you don't know how or what caused the issue so how can you blame the caps?

Way to understand nothing out of the context. Back in those days, PSUs came with worse caps and the all Jap cap wasn't a trend. So companies were sticking in whatever they had out of the grabbag of caps.

You're claiming some solid numbers out of thin air such as Teapos lasting a good 10 years which depends on the loads, temperature and a few other factors.

You also have no clue in the Teapo lack of quality in the long term lasting department in past, so I'm seeing no point in arguing about this. Do your research and stop jumping on the hurr durr it's Jonnyguru so Su'sucon caps should be acceptable bandwagon.
 
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Way to understand nothing out of the context. Back in those days, PSUs came with worse caps and the all Jap cap wasn't a trend. So companies were sticking in whatever they had out of the grabbag of caps.

You mean like the M12ii that came out late 2008/early 2009 and states "105c caps- Japanese sourced" so while the marketing term was not new it was being done.



You're claiming some solid numbers out of thin air such as Teapos lasting a good 10 years which depends on the loads, temperature and a few other factors.

No, I'm using the specs they send us (you can google them I'm sure) and the magic yet mysterious fields of study called engineering and mathematics.

You also have no clue in the Teapo lack of quality in the long term lasting department in past, so I'm seeing no point in arguing about this. Do your research and stop jumping on the hurr durr it's Jonnyguru so Su'sucon caps should be acceptable bandwagon.

Besides our internal weekly returns & quality reports, I have no clue. While I do not know what the " hurr durr it's Jonnyguru so Su'sucon caps should be acceptable bandwagon" is I'll keep an eye out for it.
 
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I'm going on with the easy mode for you to understand it:

1) The M12-II uses Nippon Chemi-Cons.
2) The specs are an estimate and doesn't change the matter of fact of Teapos being subpar in long term longevity compared to Japanese capacitors.
3) Nobody cares about your weekly returns, people want PSUs that last through multiple rigs / when needed to be sold, be in good condition.
4) I was referring to the other person's PSU having Su'sucon caps but because Jonnyguru designed it, it should be good.
5) You talked about Panasonics and Hitachis, which are PRIMARY capacitors, NOT secondary.
6) If you're going to make fun of somebody like you did with your earlier post, at least have a clue on what you're talking about.
 
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I'm going on with the easy mode for you to understand it:

1) The M12-II uses Nippon Chemi-Cons.
2) The specs are an estimate and doesn't change the matter of fact of Teapos being subpar in long term longevity compared to Japanese capacitors.
3) Nobody cares about your weekly returns, people want PSUs that last through multiple rigs / when needed to be sold, be in good condition.
4) I was referring to the other person's PSU having Su'sucon caps but because Jonnyguru designed it, it should be good.
5) You talked about Panasonics and Hitachis, which are PRIMARY capacitors, NOT secondary.
6) If you're going to make fun of somebody like you did with your earlier post, at least have a clue on what you're talking about.
based on your posts I thought you only had an easy mode? If you can make intelligent posts by all means please begin


1.
Back in those days, PSUs came with worse caps and the all Jap cap wasn't a trend.
The M12-II uses Nippon Chemi-Cons.

Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation is a Japanese corporation that produces capacitors and other discrete electronic components

2. no one has stated they are equals but rather at what point would you see the difference and what would it take to get to that point

3. We (the company I work for) cares, we are a for profit business that employees office workers and warehouse workers. We also use companies for transit and storage as well as several manufacturing companies and multiple e-commerce companies that sell our products. They all care.

4. I don't recall Jon ever stating he designed a PSU. Just that heads R&D

5. I did not know we switched the subject to just secondary caps.

6. Who did I make fun of?
 
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The topic is the secondary caps because primaries rarely even ever fail.

Yes, Nippon Chemi-Con is from Japan and, Nippon is a place in Japan.

Jon did work on a lot of the AX series units, he did a fair amount of the work involved on the AXi PSUs... if the people you sell PSUs to care so much about this, don't sell them units with Su'scons aka almost crap caps. Teapos are on the acceptable end, but seeing them used on rather premium units still - I can't completely stomach. They shouldn't settle for less than NCCs on units like these, but it's a Sirtec so I'm not surprised.
 
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The caps you can or can't "stomach" is your personal opinion and you are entitled to it.

The topic is the secondary caps because primaries rarely even ever fail.

I did not know the topic was secondary caps but that said; fail to the customer and fail to engineering are two different things. Failure to the customer is something stops working (or at least stops working properly to their understanding) while engineers will look at failure as anything that no longer works within spec but still should which may or may not result in something the customer can tell.

Typically on a PSU the fan is the first thing to go. Often on PSU there is cost cutting on the secondary caps and on cheap PSU there is cost cutting across the board which can result in extra stress on certain parts causing them to fail. So the secondary caps can fail but it may be another part causing them to fail, without specifics & proper analysis we are simply theorizing.


They shouldn't settle for less than NCCs on units like these, but it's a Sirtec so I'm not surprised.

That's fine you don't need to purchase it but I'm not sure why you are knocking Sirtec in this regard (plenty of other things you can knock them for) as Corsair is more evolved in the build process of a PSU than any brand outside of maybe CM. Sirtec is not using a single design or part that was not approved by Corsair.
 
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