Game Voice Actors and Motion Capture Performers Go On Strike

[Totally]

and it's up to us gamers to stand up for the folks in this industry by utterly rejecting the use of these AI engines in our video games.

Uh no. As a gamer, I respectfully say fvck them. In the past 10 years they done more damage to themselves and the industry than they'll ever realize or willingly admit. They're out of touch and more than happy alienate the audience, source material by self-inserting or injecting their social/political/ideological viewpoints and after receiving backlash when trying to justify it as taking artistic liberty doesn't work or they just blatantly don't care say things things like "if you don't like it don't buy it," "this wasn't made for you," or "Umad? lol. Deal with it" So stand up for them? Nah, Fvck those people. If we have to throw the baby out with the bath water so be it. As anyone who is notable, or actually talented are at the end of their careers or retired anyway since newer people seem to be chosen based more on social presence than actual talent.

Why do you think AI is a multi-trillion-dollar industry? Because it's set to replace most professions. That's it! It's the only reason why so many mega-corporations and international conglomerates are so invested into it. They'll replace all jobs that can be automated by AI subroutines. A lot of people would call me crazy not long ago, and many may still think I am, but I have always held a sincere and strong belief that ultimately, this is the end goal. People who have held jobs which were automated by AI and/or entirely robotized will be put in some sort of universal basic income scheme and left to fend for themselves. I don't think even us on the law field are exempt from this. By the end of next year, before I graduate, I'm probably going to write my thesis on the potential ramifications of replacing attorneys with artificial intelligence, even though my opinions might just be too strong for an academic paper on it. it's insane!

I told you folks. I warned you guys. And i'll just leave this old post of mine here.

Opinions on AI

The poll question is open. I don't want to influence your answers by giving my opinion until page 5 or 10 or whatever. Fire away! :) In case you're not that familiar with AI, or just want some food for thought before answering: The title may mislead you into thinking only of the dangers, but...

www.techpowerup.com

My opinion hasn't changed since that post and it will probably never change. I'm vehemently opposed to the "Great AI replacement" and I sincerely believe that it is going to happen eventually. We just have to stand our ground for as long as we can.

I hold the belief that if a position can be automated or replaced with a robot then that is a position that didn't need to exist in the first place and was merely an opportunity to be exploited, which is fine but when things have run their course people need to know how to let go and move on. If the gravy train is pulling out of the station just as you got there that sucks, but realize that you are either going to have to find another way to get to Gravytown or wait for the next train.

 

[Suspecto]

If you think acting, or even voice acting is the same as reading lines from a sheet of paper, or factory work, then I guess you haven't seen a single film or theatre play, or haven't played a single game in your life.

Reading comprehension, buddy.

It is game voice actors and motion tracking marionettes.

And yeah, they are as much creative as factory workers, they do what they are told, just different skill assets.

Secondly, it is the crowd who refuses to voice act a character due to their race/colour of the skin trololololo.


I am not gonna pay more for products because of some backwards Luddites. They can find a different job like anyone else. As they say you can't stop progress.

 

[AusWolf]

And yeah, they are as much creative as factory workers, they do what they are told, just different skill assets.

It is a different skill set, but unlike factory work, it's not one that everyone can learn to use well. Otherwise why would reviewers praise or criticise games on good/bad voice acting?

If you have your arms and legs, you can be a factory worker. (Voice) acting requires talent. Replacing talent with AI while relegating jobs that require talent to factory work is some Orwellian dystopia, not progress.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Uh no. As a gamer, I respectfully say fvck them. In the past 10 years they done more damage to themselves and the industry than they'll ever realize or willingly admit. They're out of touch and more than happy alienate the audience, source material by self-inserting or injecting their social/political/ideological viewpoints and after receiving backlash when trying to justify it as taking artistic liberty doesn't work or they just blatantly don't care say things things like "if you don't like it don't buy it," "this wasn't made for you," or "Umad? lol. Deal with it" So stand up for them? Nah, Fvck those people. If we have to throw the baby out with the bath water so be it. As anyone who is notable, or actually talented are at the end of their careers or retired anyway since newer people seem to be chosen based more on social presence than actual talent.

I hold the belief that if a position can be automated and replaced with a robot than that is position that didn't need to exist in the first place, it was merely an opportunity to be exploited which is fine but when things have run their course people need to know how to let go and move on.

Let's just say that I share some of your views, but in the interests of harmony, I won't dwell much beyond the fact that when it comes down to it, it's a component of free speech and as much as I may not share that world view (nor do I think many are genuine when it comes to those feelings - they're probably avoiding being involved in drama and witch hunts as much as anyone else), I don't think we should restrict this in any way due to that kind of disagreement. After all, gunpowder stays far away from the explosive unless you mean to ignite it

I am 100% favorable to artistic and creative freedom (including works that explore the darker sides of mankind), and brutally opposed to any forms of censorship. It's why I play games on PC to begin with. And that incentive is worth that much to me, after all, my PC costs more than 10 PS5's!

 

[AusWolf]

Uh no. As a gamer, I respectfully say fvck them. In the past 10 years they done more damage to themselves and the industry than they'll ever realize or willingly admit. They're out of touch and more than happy alienate the audience, source material by self-inserting or injecting their social/political/ideological viewpoints and after receiving backlash when trying to justify it as taking artistic liberty doesn't work or they just blatantly don't care say things things like "if you don't like it don't buy it," "this wasn't made for you," or "Umad? lol. Deal with it" So stand up for them? Nah, Fvck those people. If we have to throw the baby out with the bath water so be it. As anyone who is notable, or actually talented are at the end of their careers or retired anyway since newer people seem to be chosen based more on social presence than actual talent.

I don't disagree, but is it the fault of the voice actors, though? They don't write the game, only perform a role in it, after all. You're only throwing the baby out, not the bathwater in this case.

I hold the belief that if a position can be automated or replaced with a robot then that is a position that didn't need to exist in the first place and was merely an opportunity to be exploited, which is fine but when things have run their course people need to know how to let go and move on. If the gravy train is pulling out of the station just as you got there that sucks, but realize that you are either going to have to find another way to get to Gravytown or wait for the next train.

I agree with that when it comes to manual work that requires no talent. We as a species should have evolved way past such things, if not for money and capitalism.

When it comes to art and talent, that should be left to those who perform it best: humans.

 

[Suspecto]

It is a different skill set, but unlike factory work, it's not one that everyone can learn to use well. Otherwise why would reviewers praise or criticise games on good/bad voice acting?

If you have your arms and legs, you can be a factory worker. (Voice) acting requires talent. Replacing talent with AI while relegating jobs that require talent to factory work is some Orwellian dystopia, not progress.

Nearly anyone can learn to be an actor, even Steven Hawking could be an actor and despite his condition, he used to be a great showman. But his condition didn't allow him to be a factory worker.

Voice acting doesn't require talent, it does require to be born with a certain type of voice, the rest is just a matter of time and the actors do study how to breathe, how to talk, adjust their voice, pronunciation and many other things. What you call "talent", is 90% hard work.

You are like those sound bros, talking hours about how they can hear the difference between mp3 and flac, but in reality and blind test, they can't. And here you are unhealthy and preoccupied with the idea that those people have "some" rare talent which needs to be preserved for some reason, despite the real talent is hiding in the individuals behind the scenes, the writers and so on.

 

[AusWolf]

Nearly anyone can learn to be an actor, even Steven Hawking could be an actor and despite his condition, he used to be a great showman. But his condition didn't allow him to be a factory worker.

Being a showman is not the same as acting. A showman presents himself, or a topic on the stage. An actor presents a character.

When you're watching Silence of the Lambs, are you thinking that you're seeing Sir Anthony Hopkins on screen doing stuff, or Hannibal Lecter? That's the difference between acting and showmanship.

Voice acting doesn't require talent, it does require to be born with a certain type of voice, the rest is just a matter of time and the actors do study how to breathe, how to talk, adjust their voice, pronunciation and many other things. What you call "talent", is 90% hard work.

Of course talent doesn't work without hard work, like nothing does. But implying that you don't need talent to act, it's only learned, is idiotic beyond belief.

You are like those sound bros, talking hours about how they can hear the difference between mp3 and flac, but in reality and blind test, they can't. And here you are unhealthy and preoccupied with the idea that those people have "some" rare talent which needs to be preserved for some reason, despite the real talent is hiding in the individuals behind the scenes, the writers and so on.

And you are like those communist social justice warriors who think everyone is equal regardless of their actions or character. Are we in any way progressing with this conversation? I don't think so.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Nearly anyone can learn to be an actor, even Steven Hawking could be an actor and despite his condition, he used to be a great showman. But his condition didn't allow him to be a factory worker.

Voice acting doesn't require talent, it does require to be born with a certain type of voice, the rest is just a matter of time and the actors do study how to breathe, how to talk, adjust their voice, pronunciation and many other things. What you call "talent", is 90% hard work.

You are like those sound bros, talking hours about how they can hear the difference between mp3 and flac, but in reality and blind test, they can't. And here you are unhealthy and preoccupied with the idea that those people have "some" rare talent which needs to be preserved for some reason, despite the real talent is hiding in the individuals behind the scenes, the writers and so on.

I disagree, VA work does need talent - my Japanese is nowhere near advanced enough to understand spoken language beyond the basic day-to-day phrases, but I still appreciate the emotion and intonation conveyed by VAs in anime and games that I play and watch in their original language. It's not just placing someone in front of a mic and have them yap like you're claiming.

The mp3 vs. flac argument we'll have to save for another day

 

[Totally]

I don't disagree, but is it the fault of the voice actors, though? They don't write the game, only perform a role in it, after all. You're only throwing the baby out, not the bathwater in this case.

That I can't answer, other than pointing out examples where VA changed lines, refused to perform what they accepted to do because they didn't like or agree with them not out of creativity but other motivating reasons that isn't for the better of the project. So it isn't a situation where they're just simply working with what they are given they have some degree of input which they've been abusing, and from a business perspective instead of being an asset to the company or brand are seen as a liability. Now outcome that would arrive sooner or later, one that could be steered to a situation that is amicable to all involved is now being actively pursued by the parties hold the power. Can you not blame them for that? Did they not doom themselves?

When it comes to art and talent, that should be left to those who perform it best: humans.

I agree.

Not trying to get to much off topic, but want to speak for others as a consumer by saying. How is it, I as the one who is paying in this mess is the one who is unhappy?

 

[InVasMani]

It's complicated is a understatement when it comes to the topic of AI. Society has enough faults with or without AI in reality.

 

[AusWolf]

That can't answer, other than pointing out examples where VA changed lines because they didn't like or agree with them not out of creativity but other motivating reasons that isn't for the better of the project. So it isn't a situation where they're just simply working with what they are given they have some degree of input which they've been abusing, and from a business perspective instead of being an asset to the company or brand are seen as a liability. Now outcome that would arrive sooner or later, one that could be steered to a situation that is amicable to all involved is now being actively pursued by the parties hold the power. Can you not blame for that?

Well, a voice actor should act, not express opinion through a character that they themselves have no affiliation with, I give you that. If an actor is unable or unwilling to perform X character because that character doesn't align with the actor's personal beliefs, then said actor is not an actor, just an impostor, and should be fired.

 

[R0H1T]

I as the one who is paying in this mess is the one who is unhappy?

Because you're not really the end user game here? I'm not sure if anyone's heard that but apparently Amazon makes most of their money through "seller" fees, in a similar vein the entertainment industry makes most of their money through tie ups/merchandise sales/sponsors et al. Now ultimately it has to be sold, though with 8 billion people that's hardly much of an issue!

In simpler words you're just a number on an invoice for those who run(corporations) this world

And this is a major reason why I hate this AI fluff!

 

[Frick]

Well, a voice actor should act, not express opinion through a character that they themselves have no affiliation with, I give you that. If an actor is unable or unwilling to perform X character because that character doesn't align with the actor's personal beliefs, then said actor is not an actor, just an impostor, and should be fired.

There are degrees to this obviously.

It's complicated is a understatement when it comes to the topic of AI. Society has enough faults with or without AI in reality.

I don't think it is. People like to think ethics is complicated, but it's really not. Just look at who benefits and who gets shafted.

 

[Onasi]

Well, a voice actor should act, not express opinion through a character that they themselves have no affiliation with, I give you that. If an actor is unable or unwilling to perform X character because that character doesn't align with the actor's personal beliefs, then said actor is not an actor, just an impostor, and should be fired.

You are absolutely correct here, but unfortunately we are getting nonsense like this:

Genshin Impact English voice actors accuse game of whitewashing, racism

English voice actors for Genshin Impact shared a petition for the game claiming its racist for allegedly whitewashed character designs.

nichegamer.com

Guys. Guys. You are hired workers. Hired for a job. You do not get a say on what the vision of the developer is or should be. F*ck off. Not everywhere is SoCal. If you so fundamentally disagree - cool beans, cancel your contract. But you are not the dev team. You don’t make these calls. Your personal politics are irrelevant.

 

[AusWolf]

There are degrees to this obviously.

No, there are no degrees.

What if they ask you to play a psychopathic killer in a horror movie? Are you gonna refuse because you're not a psychopathic killer?
Or what if they ask you to play a nazi officer in a world war 2 movie? Are you gonna refuse because you're not a nazi? Come on...

If you can't play what they ask you to play because of your own affiliations, you're not an actor. Simple as that.

 

[Steevo]

This is the humane/moral thing to do, unfortunately the people in this industry are in for a rough awakening. Many professions have come and gone over the years, and even though the profession of storyteller has been around since primordial times (it's about as old as the "world's oldest profession" - it literally dates to hunters and gatherers around a campfire), there's a web of complexity involved that make it so there is perfect business sense in replacing voice actors for digital media with an AI-powered text to speech engine that is capable of replicating emotion, intonation, accents, and realistic voice ranges.

They won't go on strike, there are no unions and no talent agencies to deal with, they won't decline positions they don't agree with, they don't have to be scheduled, shortening development times, and licensing such an engine would most definitely be cheaper than keeping VAs on hand and dealing with their schedule issues (thus pumping out content faster and increasing profits) - from a business perspective, they're almost a dying breed, and it's up to us gamers to stand up for the folks in this industry by utterly rejecting the use of these AI engines in our video games.

Why do you think AI is a multi-trillion-dollar industry? Because it's set to replace most professions. That's it! It's the only reason why so many mega-corporations and international conglomerates are so invested into it. They'll replace all jobs that can be automated by AI subroutines. A lot of people would call me crazy not long ago, and many may still think I am, but I have always held a sincere and strong belief that ultimately, this is the end goal. People who have held jobs which were automated by AI and/or entirely robotized will be put in some sort of universal basic income scheme and left to fend for themselves. I don't think even us on the law field are exempt from this. By the end of next year, before I graduate, I'm probably going to write my thesis on the potential ramifications of replacing attorneys with artificial intelligence, even though my opinions might just be too strong for an academic paper on it. it's insane!

I told you folks. I warned you guys. And i'll just leave this old post of mine here.

Opinions on AI

The poll question is open. I don't want to influence your answers by giving my opinion until page 5 or 10 or whatever. Fire away! :) In case you're not that familiar with AI, or just want some food for thought before answering: The title may mislead you into thinking only of the dangers, but...

www.techpowerup.com

My opinion hasn't changed since that post and it will probably never change. I'm vehemently opposed to the "Great AI replacement" and I sincerely believe that it is going to happen eventually. We just have to stand our ground for as long as we can.

I’m OK with the AI replacement. Over the years many jobs have been replaced as technology evolves. A lot of milkmen, chimney sweeps, paperboys, miners had to learn to code. They did and this is the consequence. People should be forced to evolve, they are only able to make a fuss now as it has come for them, and we need more people to pick fruit and vegetables. Learn to pick, roof, plumbing, framing, mechanic, repair the system they desired.

 

[Frick]

No, there are no degrees.

What if they ask you to play a psychopathic killer in a horror movie? Are you gonna refuse because you're not a psychopathic killer?
Or what if they ask you to play a nazi officer in a world war 2 movie? Are you gonna refuse because you're not a nazi? Come on...

If you can't play what they ask you to play because of your own affiliations, you're not an actor. Simple as that.

Portraying a nazi officer is one thing and I can't imagine any working actor refusing to do that, but that is a different thing than having a character be policital/problematic because some producer or whatever want to push a world view. It's not different than actors improvising lines or generally change the script on the fly because they understand the character. Jim Carrey used to be let loose to do his thing; does that mean he's not an actor?

I’m OK with the AI replacement. Over the years many jobs have been replaced as technology evolves. A lot of milkmen, chimney sweeps, paperboys, miners had to learn to code. They did and this is the consequence. People should be forced to evolve, they are only able to make a fuss now as it has come for them, and we need more people to pick fruit and vegetables. Learn to pick, roof, plumbing, framing, mechanic, repair the system they desired.

So people should accept their place in the system the architects of that system wants.

 

[AusWolf]

Portraying a nazi officer is one thing and I can't imagine any working actor refusing to do that, but that is a different thing than having a character be policital/problematic because some producer or whatever want to push a world view.

If they want to push a world view, then what? You're an actor, hired to do a job. The message of the end product is none of your concern (besides, it is merely an artistic creation, not the Bible of the new world).

It's not different than actors improvising lines or generally change the script on the fly because they understand the character. Jim Carrey used to be let loose to do his thing; does that mean he's not an actor?

That's fine as long as it's in line with the character. Even more so, it proves that the actor actually understands the character enough to improvise what the character would do or say. It is the opposite of the above.

Edit: If I judged every single company based on the message they're pushing, I would be unemployed and homeless. And I'm not even an actor.

 

[ADB1979]

The allure of sex as a marketing tool is linked to physical stimulus and one's memory of it - just saying.

Demolition Man.!!! And yes people have actually looked into the commercialisation of a "brain sex machine" or some such along the lines of Demolition Man, and the consequences will of course be the literal erasure of Mankind if people were stupid enough to go ahead with it, but of course the marketing people will sell it right alongside all of the Watermelons as actually being a good thing, after all "it is far better for Earth if there only 500 million people to manage".!

 

[Steevo]

So people should accept their place in the system the architects of that system wants.

In this instance the architects are the people who learned to code and technology driven by the creators, so where would you point the finger? For a chimney sweep union I’m sure the natural gas/electricity was their AI, but it freed them up to do work that furthered humanity, so was it bad or wrong?

At the end of the day most of these voice actors can be replaced by other humans who will do it cheaper, thus the union, but to avoid the issues of reliability, cost, etc…. You could just train AI models natural language and use that and make your video game.

They should learn to pick vegetables, pool their money and buy a large farm they can all live and work together on and grow their own food, make their own way in life or get used to the idea that technology has moved us past their comfort zone just like millions before them experienced.

 

[eidairaman1]

In this instance the architects are the people who learned to code and technology driven by the creators, so where would you point the finger? For a chimney sweep union I’m sure the natural gas/electricity was their AI, but it freed them up to do work that furthered humanity, so was it bad or wrong?

At the end of the day most of these voice actors can be replaced by other humans who will do it cheaper, thus the union, but to avoid the issues of reliability, cost, etc…. You could just train AI models natural language and use that and make your video game.

They should learn to pick vegetables, pool their money and buy a large farm they can all live and work together on and grow their own food, make their own way in life or get used to the idea that technology has moved us past their comfort zone just like millions before them experienced.

AI is a catch22/double edged sword unfortunately.

 

[Steevo]

AI is a catch22/double edged sword unfortunately.

It is. I have mixed feelings about it but the fact remains that it is now a tool in the toolbox.

In this situation they are and will be the cause of their own undoing, no one or company likes to be dictated to about how one part that can be replaced should be treated. When it happens in the body we call that cancer and kill it.

 

[ADB1979]

Sorry, "celebrity internet bullshit" is on its way to being acting.

Remember that acting in 2024 isn't reciting Shakespeare at a copy of the Globe Theater. There's tons of stuff that basically require a figure on a green screen.

Before I mention a little something about People and Acting, and it is that several things can be true at once.

Everyone "acts", we all do it all of the time and unless we think about it we do not realise that we are doing it because it is so innate in Humanity that simply put, we ALL "act" regularly if not consistently and these "acts" we play out in life become part of who we are as individual Humans, who are unique and have individual characters.

We all "act" differently around different people, we literally change our behaviour, how we act, what we do and how, what we say and how, what we do not say depending on those around us, are the close friends, a parent or a child, your boss, your employee, your vicar/priest, how you "act" around these different people will differ often greatly. You can also multiply this by the different groups that you act differently around, but generally people will automatically and often even subconsciously drop the types of conversation and words that are used down to the cleanest point as it covers all bases, if your Vicar or a Child is in earshot you don't swear or tell sexual jokes.

ALL politicians and ALL "celebrities" act all of the time except when they are only surrounded by those that they can freely communicate with, this is exactly the same as the above paragraph, but in addition ALL politicians and ALL "celebrities" act a whole lot more than most people because they have to learn their lines, their talking points etc and they can often change.

Just for an interesting little test for anyone who doubts my point, think of a time when you have acted differently specifically to get something in return, such as a job were "you" at that job interview was not the same "you" that your friends or Family would recognise, everyone "acts".

Things like these Instagram models (and Internet deepfakes) prove that we have basically arrived.

I wouldn't compare these known "AI models" alongside deepfakes for the very specific reason that there is an industry and thus consumer base for digital pr0n, the fact that people knowingly follow "AI models" simply means that they like "it" even though it is fake, much like the Mona Lisa is not a real woman, and a photograph is not either, they are a representation of that person at that moment in time and space.

Deepfakes (hello again pr0n industry) have on the onehand (88% right according to a statistic), BOTH a consumer base that KNOWS that they are deepfakes, at which point they are NO longer a "deepfake", they are just well blended pr0n and real picture(s) of typically celebrities and thus pr0n artwork, AND also the truly dangerous and disturbing deepfakes that people believe is real, whether that is someone who thinks they have just found REAL nkd pictures of their favourite celebrity and the celebrity then finds out, that is very real mental harm to that person and those around you, but also and far more importantly in the simple fact that people (typically expressed via the madness of crowds) "who believe something is real" and that something is big, bad, powerful or fear inducing, those people who believe that is real will do something about it, often with bloody and terrible outcomes.

Thankfully the people here in the Western World are sensible and rational and even though there have been some bad ones, have not as yet resulted in mass violence, in certain parts of the World, almost anything sets them off into bloody and brutal massacres by the outraged mob who are too brainwashed to think for themselves, and only look at thing that they believe to be real. One day it will be a deepfake, plenty of times this has already happened via TV News reporting fake pictures that were not "deepfakes", so thinking about it this has probably already happened when those who reported on something reported a"deepfake" that resulted in a mob and then death and they had no idea that it was a "deepfake" any more than they would know if it was a non-deepfake but still fake.

 

[eidairaman1]

It is. I have mixed feelings about it but the fact remains that it is now a tool in the toolbox.

In this situation they are and will be the cause of their own undoing, no one or company likes to be dictated to about how one part that can be replaced should be treated. When it happens in the body we call that cancer and kill it.

1 issue is in arts, people trying to pass it off as being done by their own thinking when it was AI that did it for them...

 

[Steevo]

1 issue is in arts, people trying to pass it off as being done by their own thinking when it was AI that did it for them...

While there are undoubtedly talented people in the world, painting a picture of a mountain scene for example or taking a picture whether it’s AI or human makes little difference. If art can be created by paint enema…..


Art is subjective by the experience of the sentient being, thus the artist is merely creating something and so the AI programmer becomes the artist. When AI makes art for other AI I wonder what it would be?