Gaming Performance is a lot less than expected

[IntelNick]

After reading over the thread I'll offer my .02 cents.

If you're looking for a real affordable way to get into AM5, maybe while you save for a 9000 series, why not snag a 8700F off Aliexpress for like $140ish? I see people snagging the 7500F but it's only about 15-20 bucks cheaper but the 8700F has better starting specs along with being 8c 16t.

 

[Lost_Troll]

After reading over the thread I'll offer my .02 cents.

If you're looking for a real affordable way to get into AM5, maybe while you save for a 9000 series, why not snag a 8700F off Aliexpress for like $140ish? I see people snagging the 7500F but it's only about 15-20 bucks cheaper but the 8700F has better starting specs along with being 8c 16t.

They have half the L3 and the same L2 cash and no L1 cash, and the 7700 clocks higher as well, which make the 8000 series a hard pass if your building gamming rig. 8700F specs 7700 specs

 

[IntelNick]

They have half the L3 and the same L2 cash and no L1 cash, and the 7700 clocks higher as well, which make the 8000 series a hard pass if your building gamming rig. 8700F specs 7700 specs

You're right, I was speaking more toward the 7500F vs 8700F

 

[Xobu]

I can also get a deal on the MSI B650M Gaming-Plus board along with a Ryzen 9 7900x which makes the Processor $300 extra so it comes out to $450 in total. Is this a better deal and will it prove more worthwhile with time?

 

[dgianstefani]

I can also get a deal on the MSI B650M Gaming-Plus board along with a Ryzen 9 7900x which makes the Processor $300 extra so it comes out to $450 in total. Is this a better deal and will it prove more worthwhile with time?

No, get an eight core model. 7900X is 6+6 and is actually worse than the 7600X in gaming.

 

[Xobu]

No, get an eight core model. 7900X is 6+6 and is actually worse than the 7600X in gaming.

So a Ryzen 9 7900X is worse than a Ryzen 7 7700? And a Ryzen 5 7600X is even worse?
And what does 6+6 mean? I see that it's a 12 core CPU but is that the way that the cores work?

 

[Zach_01]

7600X, 7900X, 7700, 7700X are about the same on games

 

[Lost_Troll]

And what does 6+6 mean? I see that it's a 12 core CPU but is that the way that the cores work?

The 12 cores are arranged in two different chip carriers, 6 in on CCD and 6 in the other, which adds latency to the RAM and I/O controllers. This is one of the reasons why the single chip carrier 7800x3d is so much faster than the dual carrier CPU's.

 

[Zach_01]

You can pick the CPU you want based on other factors than gaming...

The X3D versions are different story. Comparisons between 1 and 2 CCD CPUs cannot extrapolate to both X3D and nonX3D.

 

[Xobu]

7600X, 7900X, 7700, 7700X are about the same on games

View attachment 366949 View attachment 366950

View attachment 366951

So what this tells me is that the difference between the Ryzen 9 7900X and the Ryzen 7 7700 is only marginally different, and that I shouldn't spend the extra $100 on the 7900X and should just go with the 7700 instead?

 

[Zach_01]

 

[dgianstefani]

You can pick the CPU you want based on other factors than gaming...

He could, but see thread title.

Basically 7800X3D or 9600X is what I'd buy.

Otherwise just wait for Zen 5 X3D/Arrow Lake.

Don't skimp on CPU or fall into "but I can upgrade CPU later", waste of time and money, buy what you want from day 1.

Arrow Lake lower models will have comparable gaming performance to current gen X3D, and notably faster than non-X3D, but should be cheaper.

 

[Xobu]

He could, but see thread title.

View attachment 366955

Basically 7800X3D or 9600X is what I'd buy.

Otherwise just wait for Zen 5 X3D/Arrow Lake.

Don't skimp on CPU or fall into "but I can upgrade CPU later", waste of time and money, buy what you want from day 1.

Arrow Lake lower models will have comparable gaming performance to current gen X3D, but should be cheaper.

When are the new generations coming out? You still have to remember that I have an RTX 3080 that I don't plan on upgrading in the near future. When the newer generations drop, the older ones are sure to also fall in price, right? Along with motherboards and so on? Maybe I should upgrade to an RTX 4080 a bit after the 50 series drop?

 

[Zach_01]

Quoting myself...

CPU wise

Like shown in the video I posted earlier the CPU is clearly the bottleneck.
3080 is still a capable GPU equal to 4070/7800XT

The gaming performance of 9700KF+3080 is low but not trash though.
The OP can wait a few months until Q1/2 2025 for new stuff to be released and settle in prices, like ArrowLake and 9000X3D.
If those 2 are successful releases and any user cant afford them, all the existing hardware prices will drop fast.

 

[Lost_Troll]

When are the new generations coming out? You still have to remember that I have an RTX 3080 that I don't plan on upgrading in the near future. When the newer generations drop, the older ones are sure to also fall in price, right? Along with motherboards and so on? Maybe I should upgrade to an RTX 4080 a bit after the 50 series drop?

I would do the 7700 MSI combo and use the 100$ you save for a larger NVME drive, it would give you a better uplift in performance over the 7900X with your 3080.

 

[dgianstefani]

When are the new generations coming out? You still have to remember that I have an RTX 3080 that I don't plan on upgrading in the near future. When the newer generations drop, the older ones are sure to also fall in price, right? Along with motherboards and so on?

Yeah you also have a six year old CPU with eight threads. Nothing wrong with that, but a) means you keep CPUs for a long time, and b) means you bought the "makes sense because it's cheaper part", which didn't actually make sense in the long run. Now if you had sprung for the 9900K you would have 16 threads, and probably still be absolutely fine with a bit of RAM tuning. Sticking to tier with GPU makes sense since you replace that part a lot more often, going for the best CPU you can afford gives you performance for years.

There's what, a $70 difference between a 14 core part and a 20 core part with 6 vs 8 P cores. It's simply not worth buying the U5 in this situation. The U7 vs U9 is less significant, but you still get more cache, frequency and E cores for less than the price of a GPU tier.

Maybe I should upgrade to an RTX 4080 a bit after the 50 series drop?

For the same money a 5070 Ti would likely be smarter.

It's almost never a good idea to buy previous generations new.

If you get an insane deal on a used card from someone trusted that's different.

You play "competitive games at competitive settings", so a GPU upgrade is completely unnecessary. Put your entire budget into platform and maybe monitor. 1440p 360 Hz OLED are quite something for competitive.

 

[Xobu]

Yeah you also have a six year old CPU with eight threads. Nothing wrong with that, but a) means you keep CPUs for a long time, and b) means you bought the "makes sense because it's cheaper part", which didn't actually make sense in the long run. Now if you had sprung for the 9900K you would have 16 threads, and probably still be absolutely fine with a bit of RAM tuning. Sticking to tier with GPU makes sense since you replace that part a lot more often, going for the best CPU you can afford gives you performance for years.

First off, this is a system that I just recently got. It's a system that belonged to my brother, but when he decided that he needed a better system for his VR games, he chose to let me borrow his "old" system in case something happened with his new one. The old one was bought a long time ago but has worked fine, and yes it still works fine, I just expected more performance out if an I7-9700KF.

For the same money a 5070 Ti would likely be smarter.

Certainly. If I can find a good deal on a 4080+ then I'll grab that, but if the 50 Series is releasing for the same amount of money new, then I'll go with that option instead.

You play "competitive games at competitive settings", so a GPU upgrade is completely unnecessary. Put your entire budget into platform and maybe monitor. 1440p 360 Hz OLED are quite something for competitive.

While this is true for now, it's not entirely true for the future. I've been used to playing games at either the lowest, competitive, or lowest with reasonable quality settings. This is because I've always had crappy laptops to play on. From school laptop, to an Acer Nitro 5 (the worst one with an AMD Graphics Card) and then to my recent Lenovo Legion 5, which was pretty good at the time where I bought it, but has definitely seen better days, and is currently getting used to being a mere second screen. Now I have a PC that I've only tested my old games on. I've always wanted to play Sekiro or Ghost of Tsushima, but playing it with potato graphics just suck. And with more new titles coming out in 2025, I'd like to be prepared to get blown away by the graphics at 60-120 god, instead of being mildly surprised when my laptop crashes on the lowest settings where I can count the pixels. My monitor is good enough for what I'm using it for. 1080p 240Hz and a 1ms reaction time + DisplayPort is still a far better monitor than most people have. I might get a 1440P monitor in the future, but I just don't think I have the budget + need for it right now. I also have a car to work on, hence my wish to restrict the budget to around $500.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Arrow Lake will only be a one-time upgrade for Intel, next Gen (Nova Lake) would require a new socket, short lived platform ehh!!

 

[phanbuey]

Arrow Lake will only be a one-time upgrade for Intel, next Gen (Nova Lake) would require a new socket, short lived platform ehh!!

Yeah i think this and the fact that it doesnt do anything for gaming is going to make it sell terribly on the DIY market. People are either going to stick with 1700 for longer, or just go AM5 X3D.

If AMD comes out and says Zen 6 is on AM5 it's GG.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Yeah i think this and the fact that it doesnt do anything for gaming is going to make it sell terribly on the DIY market. People are either going to stick with 1700 for longer, or just go AM5 X3D.

If AMD comes out and says Zen 6 is on AM5 it's GG.

The presented slides from Intel with that 4% improvement? I am way over that since I am overclocked (I daily 6ghz, and run my RAM's at 8533MT's) plus that efficiency? I only see around 188w maximum CPU package power utilization when I play games.

This is after playing a COD session at 4k resolution.

 

[phanbuey]

The presented slides from Intel with that 4% improvement? I am way over that since I am overclocked (I daily 6ghz, and run my RAM's at 8533MT's) plus that efficiency? I only see around 188w maximum CPU package power utilization when I play games.

View attachment 366961

This is after playing a COD session at 4k resolution.

The efficiency slides are 100% a joke -- I'm running undevolted RL right now that gets better efficiency and lower/the same total system draw at the wall than their slides.

And yes with tuning, ring, ram, subs im getting 5-10% better FPS than stock RL, so this would be a downgrade at stock. Unless these overclock past 6 on air and can run 10K ram, I'm not seeing it do well at all.

 

[GhostRyder]

Thanks for all the support. Yes I believe the CPU is clearly the bottleneck, and overclocking can only do so much. I'll definitely need to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU. Like I said before, I was thinking something on the AM5 socket, as it is still supported, and allows future upgrades without breaking the bank. I would love to hear any recommendations for CPU, Motherboard and RAM as I am fairly new to all of this. I'm probably willing to spend $1000 at the max, but would prefer something around the $500 range. As for the motherboard, I don't want to pay any extra for Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, as I already have a card capable of that. And of course an ATX motherboard would be preferred. As for the Memory, it would probably be best to opt in for some DDR5. Maybe not at the highest speeds though. I feel like 32GB running at 4800MHz is maybe more than enough for what I'm trying to achieve right now. I have the Lian Li O11DX case if there should be any compatibility issues. Should I opt in for a new PSU aswell? I believe I have the Corsair RM750e PSU. Let me know!

If all you care about is gaming, best chip on the market for that is probably the 7800X3D chip on the AM5 platform at the moment which it seems like that is your focus. I see it listed around 400 bucks (it ranges from 400 - 500 depending on where I look or higher on some sites). If you cant or want to go cheaper, you are better off getting a 9700X or similar CPU as that is pretty close in performance and is a bit cheaper depending on where you look.

While all that has been suggested will be an upgrade, you clearly care about way high performance in CPU bound games which is going to mean you should get a pretty good gaming CPU. You don't need a ton of cores, just performance.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

can run 10K ram

It can and it will, with 2 dimm boards, I already saw 1 preview with an ES doing 9600MT's.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

You system is well tuned. Cap your fps to 120/144/160 whatever and see how it feels. Then enjoy games.

This is the answer. Take the small hit to your graphics settings and just enjoy your games. I would bother with upgrading or building a new system when your games fall below 120 FPS.

Consider this thought exercise, OP: You invested in broad market index funds the amount of money it would take to upgrade your system. You would end up gaining much of that in net capital gains in 3 or 4 years when you will ACTUALLY need to make a new system.

 

[dgianstefani]

This is the answer. Take the small hit to your graphics settings and just enjoy your games. I would bother with upgrading or building a new system when your games fall below 120 FPS.

Consider this thought exercise, OP: You invested in broad market index funds the amount of money it would take to upgrade your system. You would end up gaining much of that in net capital gains in 3 or 4 years when you actually need to make a new system.

He has a 240 Hz monitor, I'd assume that's the target you'd want to hit in competitive games.

Certainly is for me, and not just competitive games either.