Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[kapone32]

Except there's really no evidence to support that:

You may want to ask the people of Puerto Rico, Guadaloupe, Cayman Islands, Monserratt, actually any of the leeward Islands in the Caribbean Archipelago if they agree with your assessment. A hurricane has to have a certain amount of strength to hit land and not follow the spin of the Earth up the middle of the Atlantic and regardless of charts no one can tell me that we are not seeing more killer Hurricanes than ever. I will give you 2 facts that you cannot dispute.

1. The icebergs and Glaciers are melting all over the planet at a faster and faster pace
2. Ocean levels are rising making places like the Maldives and Venice more and more untenable

But I guess people won't believe it until it hits them in the face. Just like the people who had to swim out of the GO train a couple years ago when we got 110 mm of rain in Southern Ontario. There is a creek in the park behind where I live. The banks used to be no more than about 5 to 6 feet high. The city has recently deepened the creek to about 23 feet. Why would they do that?

 

[Papahyooie]

More than 97% of published articles that expressed a conclusion about anthropogenic climate change endorsed human-caused global warming.

RTMFT

 

[FordGT90Concept]

You may want to ask the people of Puerto Rico, Guadaloupe, Cayman Islands, Monserratt, actually any of the leeward Islands in the Caribbean Archipelago if they agree with your assessment.

That would be weather, not climate.

1. The icebergs and Glaciers are melting all over the planet at a faster and faster pace

They melt...and then they grow. This is what happens with the seasons.

2. Ocean levels are rising making places like the Maldives and Venice more and more untenable

Oceans do that too.

 

[SoNic67]

so the Squirrels are responsible for urbanization and the Urban heat-sink Phenomenon

I guess that dinosaurs were driving lots of cars and had lots of parking spaces too, because back then the Earth was much hotter than today?
http://www.geotimes.org/apr08/article.html?id=WebExtra041008.html

"Today, CCNs are plentiful mainly due to the outpouring of pollution emitted into the atmosphere. But in the past, the main source of CCNs was likely biological. "
"We got less bright clouds and fewer of them," Kump says. "It was a surprise, but both factors amplify warming." Cloud cover was reduced from 64 to 55 percent, leading to a 6 percent increase in the amount of sunlight that reached Earth, the researchers reported today in Science. The small change was enough to trigger a positive feedback system of warming that was necessary to reach supergreenhouse temperatures."

In conclusion, the more pollutants are in the air, the more cloud cover, and less heating...

 

[R-T-B]

Where I live used to be under 1000 feet of ice. "Climate change" is natural. I really can't think of anything off the top of my head that is truly abnormal in terms of climate anywhere on Earth.

Does that change any part of my statement?

 

[kapone32]

That would be weather, not climate.

So the climate has not changed in your opinion? Since when is the weather not tied to climate?

They melt...and then they grow. This is what happens with the seasons.

Show me an iceberg or glacier that has grown in the last 20 years and not receded.

Oceans do that too.

That is why they created man made break waters for those place after 3,000+ years of no such project?

 

[R-T-B]

Didn't catch this earlier. If you mean Trump, he hasn't built a lifestyle off of other people's taxes. He hasn't even gained that office except by his own funding. Not to mention he donates the presidential salary he gets now.

My point was the "ruling class" right now is not the liberals. No comment other than that.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Does that change any part of my statement?

There's "climate" and there's "climate change." The former is natural, the latter implies something unnatural.

So the climate has not changed in your opinion? Since when is the weather not tied to climate?

What is a good barometer for climate change? Tree species. I can't name anywhere that tree diversity has significantly changed over the last thirty years.

Show me an iceberg or glacier that has grown in the last 20 years and not receded.

Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming?

That is why they created man made break waters for those place after 3,000+ years of no such project?

Earth's crust is very, very thin. Earth's oceans are liquid masses that are on the move. There's many reasons for local costlines to change (erosion, plate techtonics, lunar cycles, and so on).
Sea level has remained steady since 2016.
How can that be!?! Right? As with most sciences, the more we know, the less we know. Climatologists are attempting to describe climate like a layman trying to describe New York City through a pin prick in cardboard.

 

[StrayKAT]

My point was the "ruling class" right now is not the liberals. No comment other than that.

Yes, they are. Or more appropriately, they're Left wing. They stole the "liberal" label. In that sense, they're not liberating anyone at all. They prefer large State/monolithic models. Practically all of Silicon Valley is in this category. All of Hollywood. All of the major billionaire funders and powerbrokers are (Soros, Bloomberg, Tom Steyer, Carlos Slim). Even the "likeable" ones like Buffett. Then huge companies like Wal-Mart have a long history with the Clintons.

Not to mention all of the money coming from China.

That's the true face of the Left. Not some peon bullshit about "fighting the man". Those are, to use Lenin's famous words, the "useful idiots". These are the fools who get stirred up by emotion and stories of oppression, and end up doing things like suppressing free speech. The recent spat with Gab is a perfect example. The media cried about all of the racists there (it has racists, but that's not all it was.. it was just a free speech platform), and people called to suppress it. In the end, all of this truly empowers is Twitter and Dorsey (the Leftist on the top, who wants to snuff out competition).

Actual liberals are people who want to be free to speak and spend their money as they see fit.. not be controlled by giant entities.

 

[kapone32]

There's "climate" and there's "climate change." The former is natural, the latter implies something unnatural.


What is a good barometer for climate change? Tree species. I can't name anywhere that tree diversity has significantly changed over the last thirty years.

Because we chopped them down and replaced them with money making trees
Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming?

When ice melts from the Arctic and flows down the Atlantic and Pacific where does it end up? The Antarctic gets the least amount of Sunlight from the sun and remember you said Sea Ice and not the Ice shelf

Earth's crust is very, very thin. Earth's oceans are liquid masses that are on the move. There's many reasons for local costlines to change (erosion, plate techtonics, lunar cycles, and so on).
Sea level has remained steady since 2016.

Compared to the rest of the planet yes, Erosion is a very slow process, Plate tectonics have more to do with creating land e.g Hawaii, Iceland, Lunar cycles are all about tides like the Bay of Fundy and as far as sea levels using 2 years is not a viable solution look at the past 50 years.

 

[SoNic67]

The way to save the "climate" problem - stop making babies:

 

[R-T-B]

Clintons.

Not in office.

Not going to entertain the rest of that conspiracy stuff as fact.

 

[StrayKAT]

Not in office.

Not going to entertain the rest of that conspiracy stuff as fact.

Conspiracy? It's as simple as "follow the money". It's not a damn conspiracy that I listed well known billionaires who are all top contributors of the DNC and/or control information flow.

If you mean Gab, that's obvious too. They actually did sound the alarms about it all last week, after that shooter at the Synagogue. People everywhere calling for bans of Gab because of one user.. ISPs shutting them down and/or denying them service. Luckily, Gab found a new provider.

I despise the neo-Nazi types who flock to some places myself, but it's no good reason to shut down a whole platform.

 

[R-T-B]

Conspiracy? It's as simple as "follow the money". It's not a damn conspiracy that I listed well known billionaires who are all top contributors of the DNC and/or control information flow.

It's a conspiracy that you imply they hold any power at the moment beyond a standard citizen with money.

Plain and simple, the republicans hold the cards now. At least until today, waiting on election results...

 

[StrayKAT]

It's a conspiracy that you imply they hold any power at the moment beyond a standard citizen with money.

The fact that you jumped to the buzzword "conspiracy" tells me you're part of the problem yourself. It's just a lazy way to write people off without engaging them. I could go into this more, but you don't deserve it.

 

[SoNic67]

Food production today needs nitrates. There is more energy consumed in production of nitrates than the one blamed on combustion cars. 50% of nitrogen in our bodies today comes from human-made ammonia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Economic_and_environmental_aspects

 

[MrGenius]

The debate is over. "Global warming/climate change", even if "real"(which IS still debatable), is most certainly NOT EVEN REMOTELY caused by humans. We were lied to. It happens...all the time in fact. End of story. Time to move on and find something else to bitch about.

 

[R0H1T]

Right, let this be (more) evidence of the US' massive U turn after leading the world in science for more than a century.

 

[R-T-B]

The fact that you jumped to the buzzword "conspiracy" tells me you're part of the problem yourself. It's just a lazy way to write people off without engaging them.

It's not a buzzword... I use it seldom and only when it fits the case. Sadly it fits a lot of todays nutty world.

I could go into this more, but you don't deserve it.

You could, you know, provide substantiating evidence. Start with showing me that wealth wields majority political power without votes/office to go with it.

The debate is over. "Global warming/climate change", even if "real"(which IS still debatable), is most certainly NOT EVEN REMOTELY caused by humans. We were lied to. It happens...all the time in fact. End of story. Time to move on and find something else to bitch about.

Uh... no. Even the most ardent deniers usually are of the school "more study is needed" not claiming it's certainly fake. Go away while science does it's thing, please.

And earth warming/cooling cycles is certainly a real thing.

Food production today needs nitrates. There is more energy consumed in production of nitrates than the one blamed on combustion cars. 50% of nitrogen in our bodies today comes from human-made ammonia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Economic_and_environmental_aspects

Yep. It was argued when I was in school the only sustaibable viable alternative was fish farms, basically. Aquaculture.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Uh... no. Even the most ardent deniers usually are of the school "more study is needed" not claiming it's certainly fake. Go away while science does it's thing, please.

I'm not sure clouds will be accurately modeled in our lifetimes. It's an insanely complex problem.

Yep. It was argued when I was in school the only sustaibable viable alternative was fish farms, basically. Aquaculture.

Terrible for the oceans.

 

[bug]

The debate is over. "Global warming/climate change", even if "real"(which IS still debatable), is most certainly NOT EVEN REMOTELY caused by humans. We were lied to. It happens...all the time in fact. End of story. Time to move on and find something else to bitch about.

Caused by humans or not, is it bad? Because once you look past the "ice caps are melting" and "polar bears are dying" messages, you realize there's really no prediction of what a warmer planet will look like.

 

[R-T-B]

Terrible for the oceans.

No disagreement, but if the choice is that or global ecological devastation, then it isn't much of a choice.

you realize there's really no prediction of what a warmer planet will look like.

There is. It generally ends with that big glacier icelake wall/dam in Canada breaking from melt conditions and messing up the ocean currents... leading to an unendable ice age.

I'm not sure clouds will be accurately modeled in our lifetimes. It's an insanely complex problem.

Meh. Then we need to fund it more than ever IMO.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Compared to the rest of the planet yes, Erosion is a very slow process

Depends on the material. Have some fun facts about Mississippi River erosion. It carries 200 million tons of sediment to the delta every year. Dams and conservation efforts reduced that from 400 million tons. Catastrophic flooding sees massive amounts of erosion in a very short time frame.

Plate tectonics have more to do with creating land e.g Hawaii, Iceland

Says "plate tectonics;" calls volcanic islands an example.

Lunar cycles are all about tides like the Bay of Fundy

That's but one example. The moon literally causes Earth to compress slightly at the poles because of the moon's pull. The moon's pull also displaces a lot of water which causes tectonic plates to buckle and shift. All things considered, it's amazing Earth is as stable as it is.

A bad hurricane is made worse when its time synchronizes with the tide amplifying the storm surge. Phenomena like that can give weather events the impression of being stronger than they really are. We call "500 year storms" 500 year for a reason. It means it has happened before and it will happen again.

and as far as sea levels using 2 years is not a viable solution look at the past 50 years.

Since 1880 to today, sea level has raised 225 mm or 8-3/4". The rising started before the industrial age and it is changed mostly relative to solar cycles.

Caused by humans or not, is it bad? Because once you look past the "ice caps are melting" and "polar bears are dying" messages, you realize there's really no prediction of what a warmer planet will look like.

Polar Bear populations are doing well too (since people stopped hunting them):

No disagreement, but if the choice is that or global ecological devastation, then it isn't much of a choice.

Fewer humans. Trashing the ocean is like dumping your garbage in your neighbors lawn. Someone still has to deal with it.

Meh. Then we need to fund it more than ever IMO.

I doubt it's short of funds.

 

[R-T-B]

Fewer humans.

I mean yeah, but you do understand why active population reduction (AKA genocide) is a little worse than aquafarming?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

That's speciesist: it's okay to kill lesser species (like fish, cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, etc.) by the millions or billions but not members of your own species? If what we're seeing is, in fact, the result of overpopulation, it's only our own population that's the problem. There's no apex predators left to keep us in check so we're obligated to do it ourselves.

Ending poverty and increasing education are the best ways to reduce births per female. Cheap electricity is instrumental to the former and facilitates the latter.