Grim Dawn ( Titan Quest \ Diablo fans )

[Ahhzz]

I'm enjoying the Eye of Reckoning play (I've discovered it called "Spin2Win" this morning ) with the 'Keeper. I've not looked into mods for it, but when searching earlier today, found Grim Dawn Stash, and I'm looking to see if it's worth fussing with. I see a lot of stuff like Smash and Grab, which just nerf monsters and buff the player. Still looking for some more TES-level mods, which actually work to make the gameplay better, not one-button-pushing easier....

 

[AltCapwn]

I'm enjoying the Eye of Reckoning play (I've discovered it called "Spin2Win" this morning ) with the 'Keeper. I've not looked into mods for it, but when searching earlier today, found Grim Dawn Stash, and I'm looking to see if it's worth fussing with. I see a lot of stuff like Smash and Grab, which just nerf monsters and buff the player. Still looking for some more TES-level mods, which actually work to make the gameplay better, not one-button-pushing easier....

A bit OT but it makes me think of a barbarian build I have in D3 where I can use whirlwind non-stop. It makes it a "Spin2Win" build .

I'll check GD after work 2day and see if it's cool.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm enjoying the Eye of Reckoning play (I've discovered it called "Spin2Win" this morning ) with the 'Keeper. I've not looked into mods for it, but when searching earlier today, found Grim Dawn Stash, and I'm looking to see if it's worth fussing with. I see a lot of stuff like Smash and Grab, which just nerf monsters and buff the player. Still looking for some more TES-level mods, which actually work to make the gameplay better, not one-button-pushing easier....

Eye of Reckoning has a bit of a hard time scaling into late game, because of its rather low damage per hit. You need a lot of resistance and armor shredding to make it work OK. It excels if you can combine it with lots of %x chance on attack procs with very low cooldowns, the amount of strikes per second is insane.

Its acid again, but in one of the caves in act 1 (the one after Burial Cave) you can find this item (and upgrades of it at each difficulty)
https://grimdawn.fandom.com/wiki/Slithtongue

Try combining that with eye

 

[Ahhzz]

A bit OT but it makes me think of a barbarian build I have in D3 where I can use whirlwind non-stop. It makes it a "Spin2Win" build .

I'll check GD after work 2day and see if it's cool.

the post I saw referring to it that way specifically called out to those that missed their D3 Barbarian heheh. I expect you'll find it familiar

@Vayra86 I found Item Assistant on Nexus, and again on grimdawn forums, which might make it easier to manage stuff, even if it's semi-out of the game. Still prowling thru the mods...

Eye of Reckoning has a bit of a hard time scaling into late game, because of its rather low damage per hit. You need a lot of resistance and armor shredding to make it work OK. It excels if you can combine it with lots of %x chance on attack procs with very low cooldowns, the amount of strikes per second is insane.

Its acid again, but in one of the caves in act 1 (the one after Burial Cave) you can find this item (and upgrades of it at each difficulty)
https://grimdawn.fandom.com/wiki/Slithtongue

Try combining that with eye

I can't get to my game easily right now, but I've got Scorpion attached to the 2-hander I have right now, and once I swapped to it, I've not seen anything else within a few hundred dps; I like the numbers retaliation and my main attack (can't remember the name) show. I also redid my build a bit this morn, moved to Eye of Dregg, and it's rolling pretty smoothly. I may try to grab a small vid this evening.

 

[WhiteNoise]

So I have around 18 hours into Grim Dawn and I dig it. The first few hours I was just trying to figure things out and though I was impressed with the visual art style of the game I was not feeling the game yet but as I figured things out I started really digging this game. Right now it's hard to say but I think this game is better than POE. POE is awesome but this game has more meat.

I am currently in act 1 with my L16 Necro/Occultist. Working on a pet build. I consider these builds 'easy' for beginners and it allows me to more easily get through the game while I learn.

 

[Vayra86]

So I have around 18 hours into Grim Dawn and I dig it. The first few hours I was just trying to figure things out and though I was impressed with the visual art style of the game I was not feeling the game yet but as I figured things out I started really digging this game. Right now it's hard to say but I think this game is better than POE. POE is awesome but this game has more meat.

I am currently in act 1 with my L16 Necro/Occultist. Working on a pet build. I consider these builds 'easy' for beginners and it allows me to more easily get through the game while I learn.

Cool, another one bit the dust

Take special note of the near-complete lack of actual grinding. Its a well orchestrated progression path no matter what class you roll, lots of loot and options shall pass you by. GD values your time so much more than PoE does. This is why these games should be offline-based...

The trick is being able to see what's great and what's not. Quite a bit of complexity in all the stats/mechanics involved. Don't take anything for granted and don't go on what you've been familiar with from damage scaling in games such as Diablo. It does things a bit differently in some ways.

You're right about pet builds and you have chosen well, young padawan

__
Still going strong here, though I've chained up some deaths in ultimate... a good 40 or so

Also figured out Coven has a nearly BIS weapon for me... a Slithtongue on steroids

 

[ne6togadno]

The design choice for no respec is simple: higher replayability

this combined with tunneled zone design w/o any variety and funny item drops is what acctually killed repleayability for me.
i've just got firewalker pice drop. nice. increased fire damage can add to my warfare/earth mastery build but it is int set and i havent invested much in inteli beside what i get from lvling earth mastery :|
lets lvl up a bit and invest all stat points in inteli.
few days later...
greath now i can use the firewalker and i got few more pieces for 2-3 set bonus but... those high rares and low legendaries that i have to replace with firewalker boost my dps far more then firewalker
now i have to lvl up even more to get stats points for str for next legendary piece i got since i wasted so much points on inteli that i didnt actually needed :|
but it takes ages to lvl up cause i am quite over lvled because of farm to boost inteli. i cant go next act cuase the end boss of this act slauter me in 2 hits as i lack resistances cause i cant wear the gear that can help :|
may be i start with new toon and i focus developing it only for useful items and dont get myself sidetracked by useless stuff.
but i've sold out useful low lvl items that can make my new start easier cause of lacking space so i'll have to gear up again and i've have to play bosses hit and run again as i wont be able to facetank em undergeard even thou this isnt my first toon and i have some gear stashed :|
and i'll have to run slowly for quite some time till i get speed lvled up
ummm...
fuck it no.
lets play something not so booooring else.

i havent played much GD but from what i've seen so far it has much more game play variety with all those short cuts through the fences, house basements, caves etc and even thou landscape is fixed as it is in tq it is far from monotonous and booring. and with constelations they manage to add poe's skill tree variety into tq's limited class&skill system.

 

[Ahhzz]

So far, my highest on this toon is around 15k, which I'm ok with. Nothing to compare to lol, but the mobs keep falling so I guess that's good

Loving Grim Internals. Best thing about it is not having to chase back after the components.

 

[ratirt]

New updates for Grim Dawn? Damn I need to take a look it's been a while since I played.
BTW: The Grim Dawn is one of the best games of this kind for me.

This is why these games should be offline-based...

Strongly disagree about that statement

 

[Vayra86]

New updates for Grim Dawn? Damn I need to take a look it's been a while since I played.
BTW: The Grim Dawn is one of the best games of this kind for me.



Strongly disagree about that statement

Can you elaborate? You've also said GD was one of the best games of its kind; the two are not unrelated The reason it can offer so much itemization and variety is because its built as an offline single player focused game. Imagine putting this in the setting of Path of Exile. It wouldn't work at all, droprates would need serious adjustment and the end result would be long grind and tedious progression, something Grim Dawn handily avoids. Diablo 3 had similar issues and sprinkled some real-money trouble on top. Even today that game is beyond saving, and its precisely because it had to be online and accessible. It was even integral to the RMAH concept. Do you want daily quests in GD? Or gems that need hundreds of hours to 'progress through to make them usable? Thát is what online means when it comes down to it. Grindy gameplay and inconsequential progression. And of course, the inevitable boredom of having to adjust to a metagame.

 

[bug]

Can you elaborate? You've also said GD was one of the best games of its kind; the two are not unrelated The reason it can offer so much itemization and variety is because its built as an offline single player focused game. Imagine putting this in the setting of Path of Exile. It wouldn't work at all, droprates would need serious adjustment and the end result would be long grind and tedious progression, something Grim Dawn handily avoids.

Imho online cooperative games with a persistent universe don't work in general. They all turn into trading games and there's no workaround for that

It's why I was so puzzled when GGG implemented SSF they way they did. Instead of realizing playing by yourself means no chance of ever seeing more than a handful of the items that enable you to tackle high-level content and upping the drop yields accordingly, they made SSF a mere badge of honor and left the drop rates untouched. As if players were going at it solo because of masochism.

 

[Vayra86]

Imho online cooperative games with a persistent universe don't work in general. They all turn into trading games and there's no workaround for that

It's why I was so puzzled when GGG implemented SSF they way they did. Instead of realizing playing by yourself means no chance of ever seeing more than a handful of the items that enable you to tackle high-level content and upping the drop yields accordingly, they made SSF a mere badge of honor and left the drop rates untouched. As if players were going at it solo because of masochism.

It took me many moons to realize SSF wasn't all that great after all, indeed. But about drops and items... yeah. PoE does fall flat on its face if you stubbornly solo it and barely use poetrade. But then again, you can still solo mostly and use poetrade for some finishing touches / impossible to get item (how I did it). Still, the time sink is massive and the payoff is mediocre, especially compared to GD.

Would love to continue the PoE discussion, maybe over here? Altho I fully agree that many fans of PoE do also enjoy Grim Dawn, and some poor souls even like D3...

Agreed

 

[bug]

It took me many moons to realize SSF wasn't all that great after all, indeed. But about drops and items... yeah. PoE does fall flat on its face if you stubbornly solo it and barely use poetrade. But then again, you can still solo mostly and use poetrade for some finishing touches / impossible to get item (how I did it). Still, the time sink is massive and the payoff is mediocre, especially compared to GD.

The root of the issue is if you set the drop rates high enough for a single player to get by, you get a flood of content online. So every online game gets calibrated for online experience and if you want/have to play by yourself, you're forced into trading. At that point, it's the same game as a stock exchange, only less lucrative.

Fwiw I've sunk 3+ years of solo gameplay into PoE (with a full time job, so no 8+ hours daily sessions) and was never able to see the "regular" version of Atziri. My best toon was a RF templar (don't remember the ascendancy) that would constantly whirlwind with LGoH to stay alive. Everything else I could afford to build ended up too squishy. That's how PoE works if you don't trade

 

[Ahhzz]

Would love to continue the PoE discussion, maybe over here? Altho I fully agree that many fans of PoE do also enjoy Grim Dawn, and some poor souls even like D3...

 

[bug]

In my mind it's not a PoE discussion as much as comparing games that will both appeal pretty much to the same audience.
But I hear you, will try to keep on topic

 

[ratirt]

Can you elaborate? You've also said GD was one of the best games of its kind; the two are not unrelated The reason it can offer so much itemization and variety is because its built as an offline single player focused game. Imagine putting this in the setting of Path of Exile. It wouldn't work at all, droprates would need serious adjustment and the end result would be long grind and tedious progression, something Grim Dawn handily avoids. Diablo 3 had similar issues and sprinkled some real-money trouble on top. Even today that game is beyond saving, and its precisely because it had to be online and accessible. It was even integral to the RMAH concept. Do you want daily quests in GD? Or gems that need hundreds of hours to 'progress through to make them usable? Thát is what online means when it comes down to it. Grindy gameplay and inconsequential progression. And of course, the inevitable boredom of having to adjust to a metagame.

I understand what you are saying and what is your focus here. What I wanted to mention, and I think a lot of people will agree, it's great to get a chance to play with your colleagues. Doing quests and play together. I'm not talking about the "universe" type of things cause I tried it few times and it doesn't work for me. I get your point but getting the game purely offline without any possibility to play with others would be a very bad idea. Maybe this isn't exactly what you mean but offline for me means no way of any multiplayer possibility with other players, no interaction.

BTW. I played Diablo 3 and titan quest. Like both and got them all on a DVD Grim Dawn is kind of a step forward and it rocks

 

[ne6togadno]

online/offline is ment for technological side of the gemes rather then mulitplayer/coop aspect of the games

poe, diablo 3 are online games. your charecter is kept on server, loot drops are server side calculations, hit/miss/block/damage/kill/ are all server side calculations. no conection to server and you cant play.

tq/gd/diablo 2 (at least sp part)/torchlight are offline games. your chare is stored localiy, loot drops are calculated localy by your game not by server, hit/miss etc. are also local calculations. you still have automatic updates, cloud save, coop mulitplayer that requrire internet connection but game mechanics are running localy not on server. you can play the game even w/o internet access.

PS i doubt there could be sensible dev that think that coop/multiplaier is not needed in arpg

 

[ratirt]

online/offline is ment for technological side of the gemes rather then mulitplayer/coop aspect of the games

poe, diablo 3 are online games. your charecter is kept on server, loot drops are server side calculations, hit/miss/block/damage/kill/ are all server side calculations. no conection to server and you cant play.

tq/gd/diablo 2 (at least sp part)/torchlight are offline games. your chare is stored localiy, loot drops are calculated localy by your game not by server, hit/miss etc. are also local calculations. you still have automatic updates, cloud save, coop mulitplayer that requrire internet connection but game mechanics are running localy not on server. you can play the game even w/o internet access.

PS i doubt there could be sensible dev that think that coop/multiplaier is not needed in arpg

You mean single player? It's not offline when you have an internet connection and you interact with other players via internet. That's just wrong interpretation bro.
In Grim Dawn you can start with lvl 1 single player and yet still play with others via internet. Offline for me indicates there's no way you can interact with other players whatsoever.
Maybe nowadays offline means single player but that's more confusing than it explains.
If you disagree please explain your ways.

I get the loot etc. that's being determined individually for each player by their own game on their own computer.

 

[Ahhzz]

You mean single player? It's not offline when you have an internet connection and you interact with other players via internet. That's just wrong interpretation bro.
In Grim Dawn you can start with lvl 1 single player and yet still play with others via internet. Offline for me indicates there's no way you can interact with other players whatsoever.
Maybe nowadays offline means single player but that's more confusing than it explains.
If you disagree please explain your ways.

I get the loot etc. that's being determined individually for each player by their own game on their own computer.

For me, "offline" means that I am not required to have an internet connection. After purchasing GD (from GoG, the only way to go ), I install it, and then I could take my PC to a desert island, run solar and wind power, and play until one of us dies. Sure, it has MP capability, but it's not required. Games like D3, PoE, etc aren't offline in my head.
But, everyone has their own interpretation; as long as we each know what the other means by "offline", everyone's happy

 

[Vayra86]

You mean single player? It's not offline when you have an internet connection and you interact with other players via internet. That's just wrong interpretation bro.
In Grim Dawn you can start with lvl 1 single player and yet still play with others via internet. Offline for me indicates there's no way you can interact with other players whatsoever.
Maybe nowadays offline means single player but that's more confusing than it explains.
If you disagree please explain your ways.

I get the loot etc. that's being determined individually for each player by their own game on their own computer.

The key word here is local. Because you do things locally, you as a player are in control of your game. For loot-based games such as these that is a serious perk that directly influences the gameplay.

 

[ratirt]

The key word here is local. Because you do things locally, you as a player are in control of your game. For loot-based games such as these that is a serious perk that directly influences the gameplay.

Yes. That's the word I been missing Local and you are right about the loot. It is a huge perk for games like this.
When my computers is shipped, first thing I'm gonna do is launch the game and see what's new. It's been a long while since I played.

Do you guys know any other games like GD that you'd recommend?

 

[AsRock]

So I have around 18 hours into Grim Dawn and I dig it. The first few hours I was just trying to figure things out and though I was impressed with the visual art style of the game I was not feeling the game yet but as I figured things out I started really digging this game. Right now it's hard to say but I think this game is better than POE. POE is awesome but this game has more meat.

I am currently in act 1 with my L16 Necro/Occultist. Working on a pet build. I consider these builds 'easy' for beginners and it allows me to more easily get through the game while I learn.

After dropping $126 in to this game i would personally have to say hell no.

It's alright game and to me it's not finished, only the main quest line the ai actually speak the rest seems to be pretty much reading and in coop even in local coop sucks.

To me the game needs a few idea's from others like Divinity 1 or 2 were the other player can at least join in the conversation.

Story line is pretty meh and diffidently like POE over GD and was much cheaper, well if just in it for the story you can complete POE without any issue without spending a penny.

Maybe a preference but both me and my wife enjoyed the TQ story telling way much more, then again i like any thing based on Greek gods and all that. Don't think they story is is very well projected at all and just seems much more of a hack'n'slash so even on the story side i would pick even D3 over GD.

Games has lot of promise but over all it just isn't finished.

After thought: Like GD and don't expect it to have the search function that POE has which is some thing pretty dam unique and the only reason we stopped playing that game was due the changes they do ever 2-3 months and added some thing new which commonly forgot about the coop part of the game and had to do every thiig twice.

GD is good but fails in the end from what i can tell so far after 50hrs. Shame too has it does have a nice gritty feeling like back in the D1 days.

 

[Ahhzz]

Yes. That's the word I been missing Local and you are right about the loot. It is a huge perk for games like this.
When my computers is shipped, first thing I'm gonna do is launch the game and see what's new. It's been a long while since I played.

Do you guys know any other games like GD that you'd recommend?

You might try Divinity Originial Sin 2, Tons of story line, and it's more of an RPG/RTS, but it's about as close as I can get. Maybe Outward? Haven't tried it yet, but it might appeal..

 

[WhiteNoise]

I now have 36 hours into Grim Dawn with my L40 char and so far I do like this game more than POE (at this time). Not to take anything away from POE though as I do love that game. I have 655 hours in it. The thing I love about POE are the acts. The thing I do not love is running maps after the last act. POE is much too short. I can blow through all the acts way too fast. I have around 6 characters in that game ranging from L50 to high L80's and I just can't be bothered to run maps over and over to keep leveling. I think that is why i keep starting new characters; just so I can replay the acts. The Acts motivate me while the maps just become tedious. Plus the changes every two to three months kinda annoy me because I'm constantly having to re-work some of my characters. Not to mention loot drops are stupid and getting that awesome gear is a lot of work; I know because I have put the work into it.

GD on the other-hand has (so far) a far richer world to run around in. Graphics and world art are on another level compared to POE. Solid gear drops without having to waste crazy amounts of money or deal with the trade network. Lore is decent if you take the time to do a lot of reading. Not a ton of voice acting but enough so far. The game is just a lot of fun. I like that I don't have to deal with the crazy skill tree of POE and have a simpler skill path to follow with GD but GD does have the constellations which really allows for some cool tweaking and added bonuses which should cater to POE fans.

The truth is this; if I can play GD long enough to get 600+ hours in it then its a solid game but if I get bored after 100-200 hours then everything I said about GD being better will be wrong and I'll admit it too. GD is new so my excitement is high but POE kept me hanging on for a long time....can't argue that POE is one awesome game. Will Grim Dawn keep up? So far yes but I need to put many more hours into it before making my final conclusion.


I should add one thing. I hated TQ. I only played the first one and I was bored out of my mind. I played through it though because my buddy wanted me to play with him.

 

[bug]

Hehe, worlds...
To me finishing PoE on all three difficulty levels (back when PoE had those) was akin to finising the tutorial. What came after was nothing like the main campaign.
So if that's what you're after, then yes GD is way better. You get factions to side with (though back when I was still in the loop, it was pretty mandatory to side with one side over the other) whereas PoE just felt like pigeonholing you towards the end of the story. Of course GD's way gives birth to discussions like these: https://steamcommunity.com/app/219990/discussions/0/1483232961030671830/
So apparently the devs can't win no matter what they do.

Fwiw I don't think GD has the better graphics (tastes, eh?) and while I really liked TQ's skill trees, GD's just felt, for the lack of a better word, sparse. The skill trees were a big part of the reason I quit GD in the end: too few points to come up with something effective and too repetitive gameplay using the skills I had skill points for. Tried both melee and ranged toons, never felt like I could keep a caster alive in GD.

Still, the mere fact we're discussing GD here (even me who haven't played it in a couple of years) is proof enough that the game made a splash.