HDMI Forum Rejects AMD's HDMI 2.1 Open-Source Driver Proposal, No 4K@120 Hz or 5K@240 Hz on Linux

[Tek-Check]

They pay a few bucks to the HDMI Forum for every Radeon GPU made so they can have the HDMI port at all.

Any HDMI adopter pays $1 admin fee and $0.15 royalty per device.

We already knew DisplayPort was better, this just seals the deal. If only the industry would move to DP And abandon HDMI.

Not going to happen. Both connectors will simply coexist for many years, as they originate from TV-based and PC-based environments.
It's on TV manufacturers to adopt at least one DP port, in the same way as PCs are flexible enough to host both. That's the only thing missing now.

So even if the US or China or Japan isn't taking the lead, Europe is with their desire to reduce e-waste on some level, and by default it'll end up becoming DP-through-USB. And since everyone's already used to USB-C (and all the stupid 0.5 variations with and w/o TB capability), the change won't really affect many. At worst, just getting a DP to USB-C adapter.

EU can force on TV and home entertainment manufacturers to open up their HDMI devices to include one USB-C/DP connector, but they cannot just ban 9 billion HDMI devices. It is very wide spread. The move will need to be in gradual steps.

 

[Calenhad]

Guess AMD will have to include a closed-source blob in their driver if they want to support those resolutions. It sucks, but that is the reality when dealing with shit like HDMI.

HDMI and DP are not equivalent, as mentioned before. One is for "home theater" use, and the other is for "office" use (I have intentionally used very broad terms, please do not get hung up on that detail). Some examples are: HDMI support things like ARC and CEC. DP support MST output. The signalling itself is very different. You can't use a "dumb" cable with DP at one end and HDMI at the other. Unless the device have built-in support for sending the "wrong" signal to the other kind of output.

BOTH support the same HDCP versions to play back DRM protected content. If you use any 1->many splitter the HDCP chain will break. Unless you have a "designed for piracy" splitter that spoof this. In my experience, HDCP will fail even just by using MST to display an extended desktop view in Windows on two HDCP capable displays.

So the bottom line is, AMD can't release an open-source driver because the HDMI Forum owns the HDMI spec. They are however allowed to release a closed-source version if they so choose, which is sad in the greater context of linux.

 

[The_Enigma]

Tbh, I don't quite understand why the HDMI standard gained so much traction over display port ? Was there something that HDMI solved in the past that Display port couldn't do ?

I asked an Emotiva rep once about the possibility of getting a receiver with Display Port especially since their input board is upgradable /replaceable. I was told:

"It will never happen. Display Port doesnt support the necessary DRM for securely playing video content in the home space and so TV and video manufacturers won't allow it"

I don't really follow detailed specs of video connectors that closely other than to know basic resolution and refresh rate support. So maybe DP supports the same DRM that hsmi uses bow? If so then a switch would be possible, but if it still doesn't then I doubt TV manufacturers will ever switch to it because of pressure from the video side of things and how they love to sue anyone and everyone when it comes to piracy.

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

I asked an Emotiva rep once about the possibility of getting a receiver with Display Port especially since their input board is upgradable /replaceable. I was told:

"It will never happen. Display Port doesnt support the necessary DRM for securely playing video content in the home space and so TV and video manufacturers won't allow it"

I don't really follow detailed specs of video connectors that closely other than to know basic resolution and refresh rate support. So maybe DP supports the same DRM that hsmi uses bow? If so then a switch would be possible, but if it still doesn't then I doubt TV manufacturers will ever switch to it because of pressure from the video side of things and how they love to sue anyone and everyone when it comes to piracy.

Depending on when you asked it may have been correct. There has been times when DP has been a year or two behind in the new HDCP implementation.

Also just to make it more obvious. The later versions of HDCP when they were initially being developed were called "HDCP For HDMI"

 

[trsttte]

AMD is legally forbidden to use HDMI 2.1 drivers that *AMD* developed to support HDMI 2.1 features under Linux? Have I misunderstood something? Else it would mean EVERY hardware device manufacturer could legally forbid someone writing driver support for Linux, which is ridiculous. AMD isn't asking for permission to open-source someone else's proprietary code, so I don't know why the HDMI forum has got its knickers in a twist over this.

The issue is AMD has access to the entire HDMI implementation, they can't just say they developed it out of nowhere. If I reverse engineered the implementation and released an open source version of it the HDMI Forum could do fuck all about it, but AMD can't release an independent version because they have access to the original and it will always be argued they've copied some details over or based their work on it.

Hopefully in future there will be 3 DP Ports in general

That's already the case in about 90% of gpus. As far as I can remember only Gigabyte does 2 DP + 2 HDMI in some models, otherwise it's always 3 DP + 1 HDMI. I don't like HDMI but prefer the gigabyte way with 2+2 because some monitors, particularly the cheaper ones still often come with no DisplayPort ports.

$0.15 royalty per device

IIRC it's 0.15$ per hdmi port.

The signalling itself is very different. You can't use a "dumb" cable with DP at one end and HDMI at the other. Unless the device have built-in support for sending the "wrong" signal to the other kind of output.

If the DP is in the output side you absolutely can, DP is pin compatible with HDMI and has a functionallity called Dual Mode Display Port that allows for a DP output to send an HDMI signal without any issues. Most adapters on the market exploit exactly this, they just connect one end to the other and that's that. It's why HDMI to DP adapters are always more expensive and you need to double check what you're buying.

Unless you have a "designed for piracy" splitter that spoof this. In my experience, HDCP will fail even just by using MST to display an extended desktop view in Windows on two HDCP capable displays

It's not about being designed for piracy, you can't split an HDCP protected signal but you often need to. They could spend the effort re-encoding the stream but why bother!? It also fails under DP MST because Vesa didn't bother to account for that when designing MST, and again why should they!?

The idea of HDCP is completely ridiculous and pointless, it doesn't stop you from pointing a camera at a TV and in the case of physical media, the disc encryption was broken directly years ago. The only thing HDCP ensures is that you need to buy a new equipment every couple years whenever a new version comes out.

 

[Tek-Check]

I don't like HDMI but prefer the gigabyte way with 2+2

My Sapphire Nitro+ has 2+2. Excellent to connect to 4K TV and home theatre.

 

[67Elco]

Let it die on the vine then...

 

[Dr. Dro]

My Sapphire Nitro+ has 2+2. Excellent to connect to 4K TV and home theatre.

3 DPs and 2 HDMIs on my Strix 4080. Healthy amount of ports I reckon

 

[Tek-Check]

3 DPs and 2 HDMIs on my Strix 4080. Healthy amount of ports I reckon

Does it have 5 video pipelines?

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

Does it have 5 video pipelines?

Max of 4 on the 40 series

 

[Tek-Check]

Max of 4 on the 40 series

Yes, that's what I thought. One port is switched off when 4 cables are conected.
Does MST work well on Ada cards?

 

[bug]

That is correct, it's a matter of patent and rights holders' interests coming into conflict with the nature of free and open source software. The HDMI Forum gets its knickers in a twist because it's an open-source implementation of something that they own the patents to, and AMD licenses from them. They pay a few bucks to the HDMI Forum for every Radeon GPU made so they can have the HDMI port at all.

Once again, AMD is also a member of that forum: https://hdmiforum.org/members/

 

[Dr. Dro]

Once again, AMD is also a member of that forum: https://hdmiforum.org/members/

Members of the HDMI Forum have equal voting rights and ability to participate in the technical group that develops the specification. AMD was defeated by their own peers here, which makes my statement correct. AMD's looking out for its own interests here, but it doesn't trump the interests of other members of the organization.

 

[bug]

Members of the HDMI Forum have equal voting rights and ability to participate in the technical group that develops the specification. AMD was defeated by their own peers here, which makes my statement correct. AMD's looking out for its own interests here, but it doesn't trump the interests of other members of the organization.

I was more pointing out AMD was part of the body that made things closed in the first place

 

[R-T-B]

Just another example of why HDMI is for the TV realm and Displayport is the real PC interface.

Sometimes you want to use a TV on a PC, hence this still sucks.

HDMI is using the DSC compression scheme from Vesa

Not for 4k@120hz + HDR at least it isn't. Displayport 1.4 is though. You need 2.0 at least to get away from it.

 

[remixedcat]

"...implementation is not possible without violating HDMI Forum requirements." What requirements? Really lacking context. Is this of technical or political nature? Maybe the HDMI copyright protection doesn't work like it should on Linux or their members are in the pocket of Microsoft. Let's see if we get some more info down the road.

aint no new movies even worth pirating these days so they are full of shit

 

[Tek-Check]

I was more pointing out AMD was part of the body that made things closed in the first place

HDMI Forum closed the spec in 2021, when AMD was asked to start to work on open source driver for Linux. Their memberships has nothing to do with what majority of members vote as a direction of travel. In fact, AMD openly challenged them. Better to challenge them from within.

 

[bug]

HDMI Forum closed the spec in 2021, when AMD was asked to start to work on open source driver for Linux. Their memberships has nothing to do with what majority of members vote as a direction of travel. In fact, AMD openly challenged them. Better to challenge them from within.

Yes, yes, I know. AMD is not a regular company that goes after open or closed specs as it suits them. They're basically on the same level as early Christian martyrs.

 

[Tek-Check]

Yes, yes, I know. AMD is not a regular company that goes after open or closed specs as it suits them. They're basically on the same level as early Christian martyrs.

If you wish