Higher mem clock speeds vs lower latency?

[KapiteinKoek007]

There's an older thread here with many results, details, and leaderboards:

How Low Can You Go? Memory Latency Competition - AIDA64

Leaderboards are located at the bottom of this post - *Updated 3/14 4:00am* I thought it would be cool to get a "pulse" on some of the newer systems and see how modern platforms perform in terms of memory latency. We can compare and contrast to older generations as well (DDR3 vs DDR4 vs dual...

www.techpowerup.com

@KapiteinKoek007 , the nanoseconds you're getting amount to 98 clock cycles at 3200 MT/s and 124-140 clock cycles above that. It's obvious that for AIDA64, other latencies matter more for the result than CL does.

Aida's 60-70 ns is probably the maximum latency, the one you get if you read minimum amounts of data (64 bytes) from completely random locations, with no sequential access at all. It's not wrong, RAM latency (and SSD latency alike) can be measured in many ways, but it's no surprise if the results are of little significance to you.

(Also, I never forget to mention that my home computer, of a very common type, had 250 ns DRAM latency back in 1984.)

Ive had 93 ns delays with timings so loose, that the chips almost came off the sticks

Eh. Good enough. Memtest86 is a good baseline and catches most unstable memory setups. 1-4 test is Timings / frequency related, 5-6 is IMC and the rest is mixture. This goes out the window when your pushing the frequency and IMC to the max though. Say at 5000 MT/s, a error in test 3 could be a IMC voltage related issue or DRAM voltage / timings.

Yeah I do have to say up untill 4500mhz 1.45v it passed a 18 hour loop run with no errors of memtest anything above 4500mhz just keeps flooding the screen with errors even though it seemed stable in windows with benching, memtest had to actually work for a change haha.

 

[opheen]

Gigabyte z590i Vision D i9 11900KF 14-14-14-28@3733 Gear1 CommandRate 2T 44Ring\cache VCCSA 1.33v VCCIO2 1.33v DRAM 1.56v.

 

[dirtyferret]

Long story short, ideally you want both. If you have to settle, that's highly workload dependent. If you don't absolutely need to squeeze every last drop of performance from your system, just buy whatever RAM is the sweet spot of the day and call it a day.

agreed, unstable RAM sucks and from my experience I've had more issues with RAM than PSU, CPU, mobo, SSD/HDD put together. Props to @KapiteinKoek007 on the testing though, always useful info

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Gigabyte z590i Vision D i9 11900KF 14-14-14-28@3733 Gear1 CommandRate 2T 44Ring\cache VCCSA 1.33v VCCIO2 1.33v DRAM 1.56v.

Nice oc!! Haven't tried touching the vccio2 yet, is that 1.56v on dram for 24/7 ? Because I can get it to 4000 mhz in gear 1 with 1.41v on vccsa and 1.48v on dram. I don't like to go over 1.5v on dram for 24/7 use, because even the best ddr4 ram with the best heatsinks run at max 1.6v what ram are you using? Anything lower than 15-16-16-36 and my sticks won't post.

agreed, unstable RAM sucks and from my experience I've had more issues with RAM than PSU, CPU, mobo, SSD/HDD put together. Props to @KapiteinKoek007 on the testing though, always useful info

Appreciate it, thats partly why I did it, maybe someone with the same setup is struggling. The chart I made might help!

 

[opheen]

on 11gen intel you need VCCSA 1.25\1.3v VCCIO2 1.25\1.3v 1.45\1.47v to post cl14 3600Mhz Gear1 CommandRate2T to post and get 3733 stable in Gear1 CommandRate 2T VCCSA 1.3\1.37v VCCIO2 1.3\1.37v DRAM 1.5v++ With Samsung B-Die and Micron E 1.5\1.6v is no problem to daily. You need a Fan blowing air directly on the memory

This is what i daily on my 12gen. 1.6v DRAM. watercooled memory.

Stable with ABSOLUT config on TM5... harder than Extreme

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

on 11gen intel you need VCCSA 1.25\1.3v VCCIO2 1.25\1.3v 1.45\1.47v to post cl14 3600Mhz Gear1 CommandRate2T to post and get 3733 stable in Gear1 CommandRate 2T VCCSA 1.3\1.37v VCCIO2 1.3\1.37v DRAM 1.5v++ With Samsung B-Die and Micron E 1.5\1.6v is no problem to daily. You need a Fan blowing air directly on the memory

This is what i daily on my 12gen. 1.6v DRAM. watercooled memory.

Stable with ABSOLUT config on TM5... harder than Extreme

Appreciate the voltage indications! I got 2x 8gb crucial ballistix , I think they got b-dies. I also got 2x noctua NF-A14 case fans blowing air in directly on the memory, ofcourse not at 3000 rpm because they are loud as f*ck But even if I have adequate thermal headroom aren't voltages like 1,5v and 1,6v on dram harmful for the chips in the long run?

 

[opheen]

Appreciate the voltage indications! I got 2x 8gb crucial ballistix , I think they got b-dies. I also got 2x noctua NF-A14 case fans blowing air in directly on the memory, ofcourse not at 3000 rpm because they are loud as f*ck But even if I have adequate thermal headroom aren't voltages like 1,5v and 1,6v on dram harmful for the chips in the long run?

B-Die comes with 1.55v xmp profile new. I have been daily 1.55v+ for years on B-die's. they have lifetime warranty for a reason : -)

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

B-Die comes with 1.55v xmp profile new. I have been daily 1.55v+ for years on B-die's. they have lifetime warranty for a reason : -)

Ahhh this reassures me to go abit above 1.5v if I see smoke coming from the sticks ive gone too far right ?

Currently trying to get it to post 14-14-14-28 3600mhz 1.48v but no luck, started with vccsa 1.25v and vccio2 1.25v, went all the way up to 1.4 on both but still it wouldn't post. It does post cl14 2933mhz. Anything above that just won't post, maybe my sticks cant ? Lost silicon lottery lol?

 

[opheen]

Ahhh this reassures me to go abit above 1.5v if I see smoke coming from the sticks ive gone too far right ?

Currently trying to get it to post 14-14-14-28 3600mhz 1.48v but no luck, started with vccsa 1.25v and vccio2 1.25v, went all the way up to 1.4 on both but still it wouldn't post. It does post cl14 2933mhz. Anything above that just won't post, maybe my sticks cant ? Lost silicon lottery lol?

Have you checked with Thaiphoon burner so you are 100% sure that you have B-Die IC's ?` 3600 cl14\15 should work with 11600k\kf

Tried 16-16-16-36 1.45v DRAM VCCSA 1.32v VCCIO2 1.32v ?

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Y

Have you checked with Thaiphoon burner so you are 100% sure that you have B-Die IC's ?` 3600 cl14\15 should work with 11600k\kf

Tried 16-16-16-36 1.45v DRAM VCCSA 1.32v VCCIO2 1.32v ?

Gonna try cl15 3600, maybe 14 is too tight
Also will check with thaiphoon burner to check which die I got

 

[opheen]

Y

Gonna try cl15 3600, maybe 14 is too tight

Yeah mby it is

Disable XMP in bios set It to Gear 1 and CommandRate to AUTO DRAM volt to 1.5v SA 1.35v IO2 1.35v Set primary Timings to 16-16-16-36 rest of the timings you leave att auto Fabric clock "3200Mhz \1600Fclk" "3600Mhz \1800Fclk" "3733Mhz \1867Fclk" Set Fclk manually and disable XMP

Alternativ. 16-18-18-38

Y

Gonna try cl15 3600, maybe 14 is too tight
Also will check with thaiphoon burner to check which d

Yeah mby it is

Disable XMP in bios set It to Gear 1 and CommandRate to AUTO DRAM volt to 1.5v SA 1.35v IO2 1.35v Set primary Timings to 16-16-16-36 rest of the timings you leave att auto Fabric clock "3200Mhz \1600Fclk" "3600Mhz \1800Fclk" "3733Mhz \1867Fclk" Set Fclk manually and disable XMP

Alternativ. 16-18-18-38

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Yeah mby it is View attachment 256342

Disable XMP in bios set It to Gear 1 and CommandRate to AUTO DRAM volt to 1.5v SA 1.35v IO2 1.35v Set primary Timings to 16-16-16-36 rest of the timings you leave att auto Fabric clock "3200Mhz \1600Fclk" "3600Mhz \1800Fclk" "3733Mhz \1867Fclk" Set Fclk manually and disable XMP

Alternativ. 16-18-18-38




View attachment 256344

turns out, its an E-Die first tried 16-16-16-36. no luck with both SA and IO2 1.35v dram 1.55v (just to make sure it got enough juice), yet, no post. ended up like your alternative, 16-18-18-36 which is basicly the same as XMP profile but now its running 3600mhz, 1.46v, havent checked stability yet, first gonna do some gaming, if it holds up without anything weird ill have memtest do a 8 or 10 hour loop overnight

 

[opheen]

turns out, its an E-Die first tried 16-16-16-36. no luck with both SA and IO2 1.35v dram 1.55v (just to make sure it got enough juice), yet, no post. ended up like your alternative, 16-18-18-36 which is basicly the same as XMP profile but now its running 3600mhz, 1.46v, havent checked stability yet, first gonna do some gaming, if it holds up without anything weird ill have memtest do a 8 or 10 hour loop overnight

Aha Micron E need to be tuned differently... 16-18-18-38 @ 3733 Fclk 1867 should mby work.

Aha Micron E need to be tuned differently... 16-18-18-38 @ 3733 Fclk 1867 should mby work.

14-14-14 16-16-16 does not work above 3200Mhz with Micron E-die. but they are easy too run , you could try 16-19-19-39 @ 3866Mhz Fclk 1933 . 3733Mhz \ Fclk 1867 16-18-18-38 @ 1.5v 1.33v SA \ IO2 works normally on 11gen with SingleRank Micron E

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Aha Micron E need to be tuned differently... 16-18-18-38 @ 3733 Fclk 1867 should mby work.


14-14-14 16-16-16 does not work above 3200Mhz with Micron E-die. but they are easy too run , you could try 16-19-19-39 @ 3866Mhz Fclk 1933 . 3733Mhz \ Fclk 1867 16-18-18-38 @ 1.5v 1.33v SA \ IO2 works normally on 11gen with SingleRank Micron E

I can't configure FCLK because on my board I can't configure the speed of the memory controller, it's locked with gear 1 and 2 settings, so it's either half speed or full speed. Or do you mean the memory reference clock option ? Can change that from 100 to 133MHZ is that what you mean with FCLK?
I had TM5 do an extreme run twice last night, no errors, memtest in DOS picked up some errors though with 16-18-18-36 3600mhz 1.45v. Will try 16-18-18-38 1.5v 3733mhz

EDIT:SOOO. 16-18-18-38 3733mhz 1.5v is highly unstable
EDIT2: 16-19-19-38 3733mhz 1.5v is unstable.
EDIT3: 17-19-19-40 3733mhz 1.5v unstable.
EDIT4: 18-19-19-40 3733mhz 1.5v unstable.
SA and IO2 are both at 1.35v

 

[AlwaysHope]

Lots of gamers & reviewers brag on about latency being critical with gaming but neglect to mention copy speeds play a vital role as well in this regard.

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Lots of gamers & reviewers brag on about latency being critical with gaming but neglect to mention copy speeds play a vital role as well in this regard.

yeah lol, its equally important if not more important, thats why i went to test on my own setup, 4600mhz dram with really loose timings gives me the same latency as 3200mhz xmp profile but as you can see in the chart in my first post i got alot more bandwith on 4600mhz.

 

[AlwaysHope]

yeah lol, its equally important if not more important, thats why i went to test on my own setup, 4600mhz dram with really loose timings gives me the same latency as 3200mhz xmp profile but as you can see in the chart in my first post i almost got the bandwith on 4600mhz.

If its the system in your system specs, then yeah, I'm with you man. Just get that gear 2 speed up as far as possible & test for stability. That is stability for what you use the system for.

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

If its the system in your system specs, then yeah, I'm with you man. Just get that gear 2 speed up as far as possible & test for stability. That is stability for what you use the system for.

yeah its the same system as in my sig/specs. i was just hoping i was able to get low latency with slightly above average write/copy speed, best of both worlds sorta thing. but it seems anything above 3600mhz i have to loosen the timings alot to even to get it to boot, not even talking stability testing so the latency gains of higher clock speeds are lost because i have to loosen the timings so much to get it stable at that speed.
will try adjusting some secondairy timings but i doubt that will help. if i cant get it stable with the primary timings, the secondairy timings probably wont do much. besides, i dont know what 95 % of these secondairy timings do haha

 

[opheen]

I can't configure FCLK because on my board I can't configure the speed of the memory controller, it's locked with gear 1 and 2 settings, so it's either half speed or full speed. Or do you mean the memory reference clock option ? Can change that from 100 to 133MHZ is that what you mean with FCLK?
I had TM5 do an extreme run twice last night, no errors, memtest in DOS picked up some errors though with 16-18-18-36 3600mhz 1.45v. Will try 16-18-18-38 1.5v 3733mhz

EDIT:SOOO. 16-18-18-38 3733mhz 1.5v is highly unstable
EDIT2: 16-19-19-38 3733mhz 1.5v is unstable.
EDIT3: 17-19-19-40 3733mhz 1.5v unstable.
EDIT4: 18-19-19-40 3733mhz 1.5v unstable.
SA and IO2 are both at 1.35v

With 3733 Gear 1 you need to set it to 133 tried 16-19-19-39 or 16-20-20-40 17-19-19-39 17-20-20-40 18-20-20-40 etc..? You need to be open minded when it comes to mem tuning with 11gen.

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

With 3733 Gear 1 you need to set it to 133 tried 16-19-19-39 or 16-20-20-40 17-19-19-39 17-20-20-40 18-20-20-40 etc..? You need to be open minded when it comes to mem tuning with 11gen.

had it on auto, will set it to 133 and will try to find a stable oc, will also read up more on the first 4 primary timings, because honestly. i have no idea what they mean and do in relation to eachother or other components. all ive been doing is change settings and seeing what it does haha.
And i should just leave dram at 1.5v right ? should be enough for those timings and speed ?

EDIT: This cant be right ? 23-23-23-44 1.5v 3733mhz and still TM5 gives errors ? 23 is the same timing i used with 4600mhz 1.5v gear 2 that is.

 

[AlwaysHope]

With 3733 Gear 1 you need to set it to 133 tried 16-19-19-39 or 16-20-20-40 17-19-19-39 17-20-20-40 18-20-20-40 etc..? You need to be open minded when it comes to mem tuning with 11gen.

All that will depend largely to how lucky the OP is with the silicon lottery. Considering its an unlocked i5, the OP is lucky to get 3600 in gear 1. The binning process favours higher end chips like an i9 to get good gear 1 speed with IMC. But then there is the question of this silicon lottery business with RAM selection as well & lets not forget bios versions on the motherboard thrown into the mix.

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

alright so it seems i got it stable, SA & IO2 1.35v |19-19-19-43 | 3733mhz | 1.45v | gear 1, at least its stable with extreme config of TestMem5.
Should i lower the timings now 1 by 1 and do an extreme testmem5 run after each change? or increase clockspeed with same timings and extreme testmem it ?

 

[BlaezaLite]

Wish I had your patience and ram kit! LPX's @3800mt 18 21 21 21 40 Is the most mine do but I'm scared to push it too much. Need a working computer!

 

[KapiteinKoek007]

Wish I had your patience and ram kit! LPX's @3800mt 18 21 21 21 40 Is the most mine do but I'm scared to push it too much. Need a working computer!

haha thanks! it seems it has reached the magical wall of lowest timings possible though, if i lower any timings by 1 it fails to post, no matter how much voltage i put on SA or IO2, went as far as 1.47v on both, dram went as far as 1.6v but it wouldnt post, so theres litterly no oc headroom left, not in terms of latency anyway. could try to reach 5000mhz in gear 2 but still not sure if thats better than my current oc, still have to bench with this oc.

how much voltage are you running it at ?

 

[BlaezaLite]

1.4V but it's Micron B die, not Samhung.